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About Gauntlet on A8...

Gauntlet

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#51 Gunstar OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:21 AM

Spectrum ports to Atari are fantastic if they are games not available on the Atari before, but I much prefer Atari Gauntlet as it stands now, than that Spectrum version!

 

But what about taking a look at Gauntlet clones already on the Atari for inspiration for an improved Atari Gauntlet? Although both could use more color too, they both seem to play better, IMHO than Atari Gauntlet.

 

Phantom by Tynesoft:

 

http://www.atarimani...antom_3935.html

 

Dark Chambers by Sculptured Software/Atari:

 

http://www.atarimani...mbers_1507.html


Edited by Gunstar, Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:28 AM.


#52 emkay OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:34 PM

Spectrum ports to Atari are fantastic if they are games not available on the Atari before, but I much prefer Atari Gauntlet as it stands now, than that Spectrum version!

But what about taking a look at Gauntlet clones already on the Atari for inspiration for an improved Atari Gauntlet? Although both could use more color too, they both seem to play better, IMHO than Atari Gauntlet.

Phantom by Tynesoft:

http://www.atarimani...antom_3935.html

I wonder, if people get the problem . Very much of the A8 versions of a game play like the moving objects have a broom in the back. The A8 version is rather slow and stiff, and the 3 color dithering isn't the solving of all world's miracles ;)
The Speccy version plays much more fluent. The C64 version also isn't the visdom's last answer. Well, looks colorful and plays ok . But having the Atari version filtered by the C64 version , is definitely wrong.
A lesser resolution with much better fluent animations, would turn this into a game. As we learned, C64 games , where the C64 can get 50 fps, weren't possible for games with 25 fps on other platforms. But the C64 seems also to be the ruler of time, as a very slow game is accepted "fluent" , just because it runs on the C64 . In real, particular Rescue on Fractalus is a fluently playing game and on the C64 an interactive slideshow.... but, that's another story ;)
To have Gauntlet fluent , "Gr. 7" would be THE solution on the A8. While the speccy version seems to run even more fluent than the C64 version, and in many examples, the Atari with some optimized code, runs the same games even faster.

Several possibilities for the slow A8 version:

The activated hardwarescrolling, costs CPU cycles, and they draw moving objects in the non visual areas, which is a waste of CPU . They built real softwaresprites instead of copying the 8 bytes directly to the linear memory.

Really, before someone wants to add a color, the question should be, how to make the speed generally faster...
Dark Chambers and Phantom show only some moving objects, while Gauntlet shows a multiple of them. So there is no comparision.

Either...




...or...






... the Atari could do much better with....

Edited by emkay, Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:59 PM.


#53 emkay OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:43 PM

Seems, to have real good programs on the A8, people were needed who, don't care of any "8 bit era" , while just want to do great software for the A8.
This refers to the music, to the graphics, and to the used gaming style. This could eventually end in games with synthetic speech, real fluent 128 color graphics, and modern gameplay....

Edited by emkay, Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:56 PM.


#54 Gunstar OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:46 PM

I see what you mean about Dark Chambers not using nearly as many "creatures" on-screen, funny I never noticed that before...DC uses quite a few, more than enough really, but yeah, Guantlet totally loads the screen full of "creatures."



#55 popmilo OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:06 AM

+1 vote for Dark Chambers as inspiration. It's very good game with nice gameplay.
 
Also Emkay is right imho about speed of double expanded modes and 4-5 colors.
 
Here is example of 24 sprites in double expanded text mode (size 8x8 in 4 colors with full masking). This example runs at 25fps.
My guess is that something like Gauntlet could look and play very well in this mode:
 


#56 emkay OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:37 AM

My guess is that something like Gauntlet could look and play very well in this mode:


They made mistakes after mistakes. Having 32 Byte mode width , made a huge border. Using the lower resolution made it possible to have the screen fully used (ok, except the PAL bars on TV sets , because a real PAL ANTIC/GTIA never existed) that made simply more sense than huge borders. Particular GYRUSS showed why they created the double scanline mode(s).
The much more fluent movement and animation possibilities would have worked much better than that compressed graphics, such old TV-Sets weren't able to show.

#57 emkay OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:49 AM

No comment ;)




#58 peteym5 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:52 AM

I have not read through every post on this thread because there is stuff thrown in there not related to Gauntlet. I know a player/missile multiplexer can get about 16 overlaid mono-colored sprites before you start running into the flickering issue. I experimented with pushing multiplexing to 24 sprites, but the flickering starts making the game unplayable. That would be my approach to doing Gauntlet. Looking what was done with Dark Chambers and using character graphics for all those enemies on the screen would also be a good approach. Super-IRG mode with Antic 4 could be a solution to get more colors. Maybe use multicolor multiplexer to get up to 8 on screen sprites that can be used for character + items.

 

A few years ago, I was considering a VBXE port of Gauntlet. Do the background in Antic 4, 5 color mode, maybe with some Super-IRG effects. Use VBXE sprites for the enemies, guy you control, items, and those force field like things.

 

I am not sure if someone is looking to remake Gauntlet for the 8-bit. I will be working on Secretum Labyrinth 3 soon and will be designing the screens with something looking similar to Dark Chambers and NES Legend of Zelda (also SMS Golden AXE Warrior). As you know Secretum Labyrinth is more of an Adventure Role Playing Game than what Gauntlet is.



#59 Gunstar OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:39 PM

I have not read through every post on this thread because there is stuff thrown in there not related to Gauntlet. I know a player/missile multiplexer can get about 16 overlaid mono-colored sprites before you start running into the flickering issue. I experimented with pushing multiplexing to 24 sprites, but the flickering starts making the game unplayable. That would be my approach to doing Gauntlet. Looking what was done with Dark Chambers and using character graphics for all those enemies on the screen would also be a good approach. Super-IRG mode with Antic 4 could be a solution to get more colors. Maybe use multicolor multiplexer to get up to 8 on screen sprites that can be used for character + items.

 

A few years ago, I was considering a VBXE port of Gauntlet. Do the background in Antic 4, 5 color mode, maybe with some Super-IRG effects. Use VBXE sprites for the enemies, guy you control, items, and those force field like things.

 

I am not sure if someone is looking to remake Gauntlet for the 8-bit. I will be working on Secretum Labyrinth 3 soon and will be designing the screens with something looking similar to Dark Chambers and NES Legend of Zelda (also SMS Golden AXE Warrior). As you know Secretum Labyrinth is more of an Adventure Role Playing Game than what Gauntlet is.

I just want to say I am loving playing Secretum Labrinth: Kings Gold immensely, and am planning on buying the cartridge sequels as soon as I finish King Gold! LOL. I don't mind the flickering with all those sprites, colors and animations with such great game-play. I really like the flickering sword as it makes it look like a light-sabre/laser-sword! I am also looking to buy many other Video61 titles soon, I think you are the author behind most or all of them aren't you? Like Amokbots and the Tempest games? I really appreciate your efforts. Honestly, at first, judging by screen shots and some videos, I didn't care for some of the graphics, but after playing King's Gold I've love it so much I don't care about that anymore. There's such a great multiplexing engine and great animation it makes up for it...and everything is so fast and smooth, even if there is flicker, there is no slow-down! I will be doing a review of King's Gold soon. I am not sure if it will be posted on-line or be submitted to a magazine, I do both.


Edited by Gunstar, Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:50 PM.


#60 peteym5 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:48 PM

http://atariage.com/...th#entry3693453

 

Thankyou for the compliment for Secretum Labyrinth. However I do not want for this thread to get off subject. I was making suggestions of ways to get more colors on the screen for all those moving monsters. Honestly to get something close to the arcade, you might need VBXE for a good port of Gauntlet.







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