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Questions about Modernizing and using my Mac LCIII


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#26 thorr OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 4, 2017 2:55 PM

Writing is what I ultimately need.  I will write to FAT on the PC, and read it on the Mac and write it to HFS on the Mac.



#27 Osgeld ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 4, 2017 3:42 PM

you can write with it as well, I use HFS explorer once in a while but I keep a little pc as gateway on my retro computer desk that runs linux and it just shows up like any other filesystem

 

just tossing options, ultimately whatever pleases you :) as there's no wrong way as long as data gets to its intended target



#28 thorr OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 4, 2017 4:27 PM

Thanks. I read that you risk corruption if you write to an HFS volume from Linux.  I suppose I could set up an HFS volume that is just for data sharing that would be ok to corrupt.  I would do this if the FAT idea doesn't work out.

 

My SCSI2SD card is sitting at the Post Office and they said all deliveries are out for the day and I would have to wait until Monday even though it is 2 day shipping.  This keeps happening to me.  After pressing them she said call back in an hour and the supervisor will be back.  Once Monday hits, I am busy again.  This sucks.  Hope I can pick it up today.  Maybe I will just show up in an hour with my tracking info...



#29 thorr OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 4, 2017 6:21 PM

It finally showed up at my mailbox. Let the fun begin!



#30 Osgeld ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 4, 2017 6:56 PM

Thanks. I read that you risk corruption if you write to an HFS volume from Linux.

 

 

yea its a bit more than writing fat and a bit less than writing NTFS, never had a problem with it



#31 thorr OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 4, 2017 7:29 PM

Crap, now my Mac won't boot again.  I haven't done anything yet and it won't turn on.  The fan and hard drive spin, but it doesn't make the power-on noise and it is a black screen.  All I did was look at the CDRom drive.  Any suggestions what might cause it not to boot?  This happened before and I got lucky when I removed the IIe card it started working again, then I reinserted it and it still worked.  It's flakey.  I am at a standstill.

 

Edit: while leaving it on for a few minutes, it finally made the startup noise and is booting again.  Back in business for the moment.  Not sure what causes that huge delay.


Edited by thorr, Sat Mar 4, 2017 7:31 PM.


#32 Osgeld ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 4, 2017 8:25 PM

pram on a mac is an asshat, just looking at something can cause it to flip out, next time it happens hold down option +p+r on the keyboard and turn on the power, hold it down it should eventually chime 2 times and get its act together (like after 30 seconds then another 10-15 seconds)

 

its like resetting the bios, first chime is like setting it to default, second is setting it to current, if it doesnt like something it will sit there with its thumb up its butt 

 

quite common 

 

least its not a powermac8500 where they put the reset switch under the cpu


Edited by Osgeld, Sat Mar 4, 2017 8:26 PM.


#33 thorr OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 4, 2017 9:21 PM

Thanks!  So far I am not too far ahead.  I was able to initialize the drive.  I am not sure if I should have, but I partitioned it with 2000000 Mac and 97000 or so Scratch.  Now I am stuck because my CDROM isn't reading CD's at the moment and I can't figure out how to turn .image files into .dsk files that can be used by my Floppy Emu.  I was hoping to install 7.6.1, but may end up with 7.5.3 if I can't get the install media to work.  Tried burning the CD .bin file and .dmg file with imgburn but they did not work.  The .image files are from the floppy version, but don't know what to do with them.  I don't have Disk Utility and don't know where to get it.  The files are from here: http://www.macfixer....ntage-software/


Edited by thorr, Sat Mar 4, 2017 9:22 PM.


#34 Osgeld ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 4, 2017 10:00 PM

this is where I would turn to linux, and basilisk II cause I could mount the drive, fire up the emulator with a starter disk and install the system on the inited drive via floppy image emulation (load all the image files first then at the bottom of the list point to the unmounted HFS hard disk, fire up and go)  

 

otherwise one would have to boot up the mac get all the image files over make disks blah blah blah welcome to the brain bender that is 68K mac 

 

if you are interested here is a grossly outdated tutorial I made about my mac SE, darn near a decade ago 

Attached Files


Edited by Osgeld, Sat Mar 4, 2017 10:04 PM.


#35 thorr OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 4, 2017 10:44 PM

Thanks for all of your help.  At this point, I am not sure if I can even use the SD card in a SD card reader and access the drive from a PC.  I was under the impression I could, but now I am not sure.  I will try it when I am done installing 7.5.3 which is taking forever with floppies.  I took at look at your doc and just as I suspected, one of the requirements is having a SCSI interface in the PC.  Well it just so happens I have a PCI Adaptec SCSI card laying around, so if I really had to, I could put it in a PC and read the SCSI drive from Linux.  Talk about a total pain in the butt though.  I have another idea now... get an ethernet adapter:  http://www.ebay.com/...SgAAOxyyFhTeL5i

 

I am not sure how to download files with an ethernet adapter, but I think FTP is probably the easiest way and that is easy enough to set up.  $15 shipped isn't bad to make my life easier.



#36 thorr OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 4, 2017 11:06 PM

I noticed with Easy Install of 7.5.3 that it is installing all kinds of junk I will never use.  Is there a guide out there of the bare essentials that most people would need?  I won't be printing for example.



#37 thorr OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 4, 2017 11:36 PM

Found a 7.6.1 ISO file.  Hope I can get my CDROM to start working so I can read it.  It shows up on the SCSI probe.  Edit: the ISO might be bogus.  I can't open it with Ciderpress.


Edited by thorr, Sun Mar 5, 2017 12:20 AM.


#38 thorr OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 5, 2017 1:16 AM

Just made a breakthrough.  In Basilisk II I can open Disk Copy, then see the files in the .image files which I could then copy onto a floppy .dsk file (hopefully), so I should be able to install 7.6.1 eventually...

Edit: just made a better breakthrough... my Floppy Emu can use .image files, so I am on my way to installing 7.6.1.  I have been having read errors with it so hopefully I can make it through the install...


Edited by thorr, Sun Mar 5, 2017 2:14 AM.


#39 thorr OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 5, 2017 5:47 AM

Success!  I did get an error that killed the installation from the Floppy Emu, so what I ended up doing was a minimal installation from the Floppy Emu and it completed successfully.  Then I got the CDROM drive working using the Apple Universal CDROM 5.3.1 driver here: http://www.3rz.org/m...seum/disk.shtml

Then I was able to use the 7.6.1 CD that I burned from an ISO earlier and do a complete installation.  After it was done, it broke the CDROM again, so I just put the extension file back in place.  The one that comes with 7.6.1 doesn't work with my CD drive.  Now that it is up and running, I can see that the CDROM is capable of reading normal CD's, and not just HFS CD's.  This is great because I can just download whatever I want and burn them to disk.  I also went in and disabled a ton of extensions.  With the minimal installation, it was nice and zippy!  Also, I just tried putting the SD card in my PC from the SCSI2SD and it doesn't work.  I will either need to get an ethernet card or burn CD's or set up a Linux PC with a SCSI card.  For now I will burn CD's and think about the ethernet card.  Thanks everyone for your help!


Edited by thorr, Sun Mar 5, 2017 5:52 AM.


#40 Osgeld ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 5, 2017 8:23 AM

after reading though all that I am reminded of why I dont mess around with macOS after getting it installed lol

 

good job



#41 Iamgroot OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 5, 2017 12:19 PM

I agree.  Mac OS had too many conflicts going on.  It took a bit to weed out all the unnecessary extensions and control panels to get a stable system.

 

I just created a CONTROLPANEL(DISABLED) and an EXTENSION(DISABLED) FOLDER within the system folder and dragged control panels and extensions into them. 

You will have to restart the computer each time to remove the extensions and control panels from memory as well.

 

But I found the biggest reason for more problems than usual was the lack of memory.  There are a couple of control panels that really do a good job of house cleaning.  I can't get access to my old computer to tell you what the name of the one of them is, but it had the word RAM in it.

 

But the other one is called RAM DOUBLER.  This can triple your virtual memory and is much faster and more stable than the virtual memory that came with OS 7.5.5.  You will have to turn off virtual memory in the one control panel when using RAM DOUBLER or if you cant find a version of RAM DOUBLER, at least increase your virtual memory to twice the size of your installed RAM.

 

And though you might be able to boot from an external drive, IIRC, I think virtual memory is still used on the internal drive.  And if it is just about full with your setup, that could be the biggest reason for your long delays in booting up and seemingly slow speeds.  You need as much free space on the hard drive as to accomodate twice the RAM you have installed.

 

Another thing that might help in faster boot-ups is to disable the memory check on startup.  This is a special key sequence to access it.  Hold down the OPTION key and click on the control panel that has the virtual memory adjustment, and an option may show up to disable the memory check on startup.  Again, I am not sure which OS came with this option and if it may only be allowed on 4-digit or PowerPC Macs.

 

I will be in a better position in April to send you a cd image of some of my more stable setups with very good memory management and small footprint.



#42 thorr OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 5, 2017 1:48 PM

Thanks!  After a lowly four hours of sleep, I now am ready to start installing the games I have been wanting to play. 

 

Regarding the RAM, that is one of the biggest things that was improved.  I have 20 MB of RAM and before with the original installed OS on the 80MB drive, I had about 4 MB usable for programs.  With the minimum installation, I had about 18 MB free.  After turning off all of the extra extensions I know that I don't need right now (using Extensions Manager) I still have around 17 MB free.  I have no idea what is a good amount of free RAM to have and if I should upgrade to 36 MB, but at least right now most of my memory is available for applications which is huge compared to before.  I turned off almost everything like anything to do with sharing and networking, printing, etc.  With the Minimal installation, there were only 2 or 3 extensions and it worked fine.  The test will be when I install programs whether they work properly or not and I think most will with what I left running. Thanks for all of the tips and I will check them out to see how zippy I can get it.

 

Compared to using the Quantum 80MB hard drive, it boots quite fast now on the SCSI2SD.  I haven't messed with the Virtual Memory yet, but I did go back and removed the "Scratch" partition and made the Macintosh partition the whole 2GB.  I could have made it 4 GB, but I would rather have flexibility with using it in older System 7 versions.  The slow startup times I mentioned weren't due to the hard drive or RAM.  It was hanging before it hit the disk.  I even started running into problems with the terminators installed on the SCSI2SD when they worked with them before.  I had to remove them to get it to boot, and then after playing with the orientation of them, I found a way to get them back on and have it boot with them installed like they are supposed to be. Everything was very flakey, but at least it kept working in the end after I got it to work.  Removing the extra extensions also made a big difference, but that was once it actually starting to boot after turning it on.  Now that it is so much quieter without the Quantum Hard drive, I am tempted to replace the fan with a quieter one.  

 

On to some fun with installing games...


Edited by thorr, Sun Mar 5, 2017 1:51 PM.


#43 thorr OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 5, 2017 1:57 PM

Quick question, when something says it supports 68k architecture, but then it says requires a 68040, will it work with my 68030?  I thought I remember there might be a way to make it work with some compatibility extensions or something, or maybe it is just the speed difference for the reason.  Thanks!



#44 Osgeld ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 5, 2017 2:23 PM

not that I am aware of (but that doesnt mean much) the 040 has an intergrated MMU and FPU, the 030 only has the MMU, outside of that the 040 is quite the beast internally so the application may be dependent on internal cache or a set of instructions or "something" the 030 doesnt have 



#45 Iamgroot OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 5, 2017 4:10 PM

Quick question, when something says it supports 68k architecture, but then it says requires a 68040, will it work with my 68030?  I thought I remember there might be a way to make it work with some compatibility extensions or something, or maybe it is just the speed difference for the reason.  Thanks!

 

 

I sent you the 040 extension in the sys7.utils.zip.  This lets 68030's run 68040 code.  There are some cases where this may not work, but just throw it in your extensions folder, reboot and try.



#46 thorr OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 5, 2017 4:40 PM

Thanks.  That's awesome!  I am currently waiting forever for a 17MB file to be unstuffed (hours).  I had to remove the SCSI terminators again so maybe this is why it is so slow.  Any ideas what else could cause unstuffing to take so long?  I am tempted to get this, but I think I will hold off for now until I see just how slow/fast and or compatible everything is:  http://www.ebay.com/...S0AAOSw6-hYm42o

 

Edit: turns out I did put the terminators back on, so that isn't the issue.  One website said to turn off version checking, but that was on a newer version so not sure if I have that option (can't check while it is still unstuffing that file).  I noticed the CPU doesn't have a heat sink on it.  Strange.  I wonder if it is bad to leave the cover off because there is no airflow, or better to let it breathe. 


Edited by thorr, Sun Mar 5, 2017 4:58 PM.


#47 Iamgroot OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 5, 2017 6:12 PM

It shouldn't take that long.  Either it is stuck in a loop, or it is trying to unstuff the temporary file to the main drive first which only has 17 Mb free, before copying it to the external. I know the newer Macs create a temp file.  With hidden files made viewable, you can see it show up temporarily.  But never could really get older Macs to show me what is happening behind the scenes.

 

Is there a working light on the SCSI2SD that might be flashing to show it is in operation.  That usually can be an indication if still working at it, or not.



#48 thorr OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 5, 2017 7:35 PM

Thanks.  I had the case lid on, so I didn't look at the light.  It took hours but finally finished.  I tried some other files that were smaller and they performed normally.  Not sure why the 17 MB file was an issue. I was able to check the memory while it was unstuffing and it had plenty free.  Oh well.  I don't have the 80 MB drive in there at all.  The only hard drive it sees is the 2GB drive and also the CDROM.



#49 thorr OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 5, 2017 11:10 PM

Still having problems every time I turn on the computer with it not making the powerup tone.  Do you think it could be due to the bad battery on the motherboard?  Cmd-Option PR doesn't do anything to help.  Just have to turn it on and wait a couple of minutes for the tone.



#50 Iamgroot OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 5, 2017 11:26 PM

It's not the battery if the computer is keeping time and not resetting to 1970 something.

 

The pause will happen for 2 reasons on bootup.  First it does the RAM check, if you haven't shut it off.

The second reason for most purposes is if the external boot device is a hard drive.  The computer has to wait to the hard drive spins up.

 

But for a electronic device with no moving parts, like the SCSI2SD card, should be instantaneous.

 

If you unplug the SCSI2SD card and just boot up from the internal hard drive, does it boot up faster.  If so, then check dip switches on the SCSI card.

If not, then the length of time in booting is strictly with the RAM check.  Try to disable it.with the instructions I gave.





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