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my view on the console war (you know which one)


2600problems

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I know i'm going to get flak for this but...sega won the console war.

 

think of it: sega's master system was awesome, the genesis was awesome, the game gear was revolutionary for the time, had color, yes it was a battery hog but at least you didn't have to look at pea soup green.

 

it's 1988, you are split between the nes and the new Sega genesis. obviously, from a technical standpoint, the genesis is superior to the nes.

 

Motorola 68000 processor

64 colors to the NES's 54 Plus faster speed, (for the time) quality arcade ports and the soon to be madden on the way.

 

to me, the genesis will always fill a place in my heart.

 

Nintendo comes out with the Super Nintendo (great console btw) and Mortal kombat 1

 

we get all the blood

 

you get sweat and censorship.

 

sega:1

 

Nintendo:0

 

1990-93

Sega unveils the Sega CD which sadly requires that you own the genesis with it. but, it is the first time that Genesis gamers are exposed to the CD format, the FMV isn't that bad and there are some good games for it (the notoriously crappy corpse killer notwithstanding).

(somewhere around '94)

Nintendo unveils Donkey kong and like a ninja, steals Sega's customers.

 

i'll be honest, Donkey kong is nice and all but it ain't got nothing on the likes of the terminator for Sega CD and NBA Jam

 

1996 (I think)

 

Sega releases the 32X and...it requires the genesis still, clearly sega is floundering. gamers get their hopes unfairly raised with the 32X port of DOOM. a respectable port but inferior to the Jaguar and Dos game in every way. at least the framerate is better then the snes,

 

in a monumentally dickish move, sega has the gall to release what I like to call "bullshit boxes". games that require the Sega CD and 32X to work, barely improve the video quality and still play like shit.

 

don't get me wrong. I love Sega with all my heart, I love the genesis and I love the snes. both are great consoles, both had great games (but we got the better port of T2 so suck it) and both have a place in my heart as beautiful pieces of art.

 

what are your thoughts on the console war?

 

 

 

 

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I think maybe Sega won some battles, but if they had truly won a "war," wouldn't they still be making hardware? ;-)

 

In the "wars" I know about, both sides are trying to wipe each other out, not just sell more boxes at Toys R Us than the other guy.

 

I like them both.

Agreed. Both companies made some good moves and some bad ones. However, Sega's leadership had no vision whatsoever, and lead to the triad of Genesis add-on/successors that confused and ultimately poisoned the market. Combine that with their "we have attitude" marketing (which was gangbusters at first, but ultimately did as much harm as it did good) and consumers were done with Sega. That's not even considering the fact that the PSX appealed to the same demographic, and offered a better product at a lower price.

 

Comparing specs and sprites is just small-ball. Sega lost the war, not in the short term but most certainly in the long one, and they did not on technical grounds but on marketing ones.

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I know i'm going to get flak for this but...sega won the console war.

 

think of it: sega's master system was awesome, the genesis was awesome, the game gear was revolutionary for the time, had color, yes it was a battery hog but at least you didn't have to look at pea soup green.

 

it's 1988, you are split between the nes and the new Sega genesis. obviously, from a technical standpoint, the genesis is superior to the nes.

 

Motorola 68000 processor

64 colors to the NES's 54 Plus faster speed, (for the time) quality arcade ports and the soon to be madden on the way.

 

to me, the genesis will always fill a place in my heart.

 

Nintendo comes out with the Super Nintendo (great console btw) and Mortal kombat 1

 

we get all the blood

 

you get sweat and censorship.

 

sega:1

 

Nintendo:0

 

1990-93

Sega unveils the Sega CD which sadly requires that you own the genesis with it. but, it is the first time that Genesis gamers are exposed to the CD format, the FMV isn't that bad and there are some good games for it (the notoriously crappy corpse killer notwithstanding).

(somewhere around '94)

Nintendo unveils Donkey kong and like a ninja, steals Sega's customers.

 

i'll be honest, Donkey kong is nice and all but it ain't got nothing on the likes of the terminator for Sega CD and NBA Jam

 

1996 (I think)

 

Sega releases the 32X and...it requires the genesis still, clearly sega is floundering. gamers get their hopes unfairly raised with the 32X port of DOOM. a respectable port but inferior to the Jaguar and Dos game in every way. at least the framerate is better then the snes,

 

in a monumentally dickish move, sega has the gall to release what I like to call "bullshit boxes". games that require the Sega CD and 32X to work, barely improve the video quality and still play like shit.

 

don't get me wrong. I love Sega with all my heart, I love the genesis and I love the snes. both are great consoles, both had great games (but we got the better port of T2 so suck it) and both have a place in my heart as beautiful pieces of art.

 

what are your thoughts on the console war?

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't own consoles in that era, but if I had, it would have been a Genesis. I really didn't like anything about the NES at the time:, the graphics/sound the aesthetic of the games. My friends all had NES, and I would be bored to death every time I'd hang out with them and they decided to stay home and play it. I had already been exposed to 16-bit gaming on computers and NES felt like a real step backwards.

 

I know I'm in a minority with my dislike of that system though.

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At this point it's safe to say that Nintendo 'won' the console war. They still make consoles, they have a better reputation for quality titles over Sega, and their nostalgia train brings in quite a bit more money/hype. At least in the US/Japan, anyway.

 

If I'm supposed to judge based solely on the 16 bit game libraries, or public reception at the time, there was no winner. No great cultural consensus was ever reached back in the day, and the games are too different to compare so directly.

 

If someone came up to me today and said "But I only have $50, I can only afford 1 console!", I'd honestly tell them to get a retron 3 and play both. (Actually I'd tell them to save their money and either buy both retro consoles or a retron 5, but assuming they need something now...)

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BTW this is my favorite excerpt from a book review of Blake Harris' "Console Wars" (which really should be called "Tom Kalinske Is So Very Smart, and Sexy Too!")

 

But it’s not, sadly, a heck of a book. The reconstructed dialogue can be stilted and phony. When Mr. Harris isn’t unfurling clichés (speed is blazing, a woman is doe-eyed, go-getters are scrappy), he is falling prey to the language of public relations. A dud of a robot that came with the original Nintendo Entertainment System is described as “groundbreaking.” A new Nintendo advertising slogan is “paradigm-shifting.” Sonic is compared to Michael Jordan, Bill Clinton and Kurt Cobain.

 

Mr. Harris is also too beholden to his sources. Mr. Kalinske almost never makes a mistake nor acts out of spite or anger. When Sega stumbles, the Japanese side of the company — which controlled research and development as well as the design of most of the company’s hardware and software — is routinely blamed while the Americans are absolved.

 

Mr. Kalinske and his colleagues at Sega are described at one point as being able to “dream like Walt Disney,” “innovate like Steve Jobs” and, yes, “take risks like the mythological trickster Prometheus.” At another point, Mr. Harris presents, seemingly without irony, a Sega employee who describes the release of Sonic the Hedgehog 2 as “the biggest international event since the fall of the Berlin Wall.”

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I know i'm going to get flak for this but...sega won the console war.

 

...

This is a little bit like saying Germany won WWI because they had superior organization, better-trained troops, better artillery, and their armies occupied enemy territory at the time of their surrender. ;)

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This is a little bit like saying Germany won WWI because they had superior organization, better-trained troops, better artillery, and their armies occupied enemy territory at the time of their surrender. ;)

"Yeah, but aside from that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?"

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BTW this is my favorite excerpt from a book review of Blake Harris' "Console Wars" (which really should be called "Tom Kalinske Is So Very Smart, and Sexy Too!")

 

It really should be. I like the book, but the ridiculous narration is a bit much. "Tom Kalinske thought to himself, 'My people are the best. Today, we are going to set video games on their ear with our stunningly innovative concepts.' Tom knew his crew was up to the task."

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Nintendo "won," but I always preferred SEGA stuff. Never regretted having a Master System or Genesis growing up, and only the top-tier Nintendo stuff ever made me the slightest bit jealous.

I had an NES and Genesis growing up. I didn't encounter a Master System until years later, and while I thought it was really cool, I was still glad I had a Nintendo. But who knows, maybe if I'd had a Master System, I'd have developed the same attachment to its games as I did for my NES games.

 

I loved my Genesis and would have liked to also have (as opposed to "have instead of") a SNES. I felt the two complemented each other really well as they each were good at different things.

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Declaring who won the "console wars", in my humble opinion cannot be done without understanding the definition of the word SUBJECTIVE.

I somewhat disagree. The so-called "console wars" were just an illustration of the market competition of the time, just made a little more colorful by the fact that it was a time when consoles had more notable differences between each other and people were generally less inclined to own more than one at a time. The decision as to which platform to buy was bigger, so people got more invested into which was the "right" system.

 

With that in mind, there are reasonable metrics for which system "won", some of the better ones would be total systems sold, total income earned, total market share, and percentage converted to the next generation of hardware. Personal perspective plays a role in which of these you think is the most important, but in some respects, the facts are the facts.

 

I mean, my favorite 32-Bit system is the friggin' Virtual Boy, but that doesn't mean I think it won any kind of competition against the Saturn, Playstation, or even a Radio Shack LCD game and a six-pack.

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Sega at best if you want to get into war games ideas is pretty clear. They won a few skirmishes, a battle or two at best with Nintendo, but in the end they were not only routed repeatedly but backed into a corner and decimated and not just because of poor equipment but due to incomptent commanders issuing counterproductive orders in a really stupid internal battle of economics of war material but also bungled orders.

 

Nintendo may have had a stock weaker system with the NES vs the SMS, but in the end the SMS was like the army that never was given a chance and while had some nice toys were improperly staffed or trained. The NES rolled in like a Chinese army with inferior equipment but totalitarian control and the masses of millions of walking meat shields to get the job done.

 

Then Sega needed to do a counterstrike and developed a new weapon the Genesis, a few corners cut but all in all a beast to where it was like taking a gatling gun into a trench warfare fight in WW1 against the NES and pounded Nintendo hard with lots of losses of turncoats going to the other side or getting mowed down. Not to get crushed Nintendo then rolled out with effectively was the first tank, not the best firing power, but lots of protection, frills, and worked as a great shield to run over the gatling and who armed it and won out in the end. Sega trying to stave off those tanks would try and rush production of specialized tools (SCD and 32X) which helped the troops have a false sense of confidence, but in the end did no favors and showed the cracks in the management of their group. :)

 

After that it's kind of hard to get into the push and shove N64 with it's good hardware and limited carts, and then the faux-3D Saturn which really screwed up their lifespan along with killing off (until Majesco furthered it) GG and Genesis. They were already hemorrhaging to death when they rolled out their amazing Dreamcast which could have really done them favors, had they still had the cash and backing to keep them in the game. Kind of like in WW2 with Hilter rolling out the ME-262 about 18mo too late to change the war.

 

 

I grew up with Nintendo but jumped also to Sega around the time of the Dreamcast, the first system of theirs I bought at retail new. It's not like I didn't have access to the hardware, but they really lacked a great consistent library of quality stuff that just wasn't rough around the edges. Dreamcast really did wonders for their play style and image for me, it's why when I found one again late last year I've kept it as it's a gem but I've dumped all my pre-DC stuff as if I get the need an emulator would suffice as it's not worth my time AND money anymore.

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Which 16-bit, walmart-grade trash system was just a little less horrible than the other one?

 

I think I got the right level of condescending Neo Geo fan into that last sentence. ;)

 

Funny.

 

IMO, the very best games were on the SNES and Genesis despite having inferior hardware. The Neo Geo was all fighting and shooting which is fine. It's an arcade machine first and foremost. But there was nothing as engrossing as Super Metroid or A Link to the Past on there.

 

On the other hand, the Neo Geo probably didn't have any real stinkers in its library unlike the SNES and Genesis.

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Nintendo comes out with the Super Nintendo (great console btw) and Mortal kombat 1

 

we get all the blood

 

you get sweat and censorship.

 

sega:1

 

Nintendo:0

 

The Genesis port of Mortal Kombat was definitely better, but at least the SNES got some version of Mortal Kombat at all. That's more than Atari fans had... *grumble grumble* Kasumi Ninja *grumble grumble*

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Nah, there was no "console war" it was a marketing war.

 

Half of the time people are comparing consoles that came out in different years, and had different software licencing mechanics. eg Atari's Tengen division was basically a way to dump more games on Nintendo's console, and many Japanese companies relied on American companies to localize their games while the Japanese companies localized American games for the Japanese market.

 

Marketing can put lipstick on a pig.

 

From a purely technical perspective, SEGA's gear was always weaker stuff and was accessory shovelware. Sega brought all this stuff to the US but Nintendo didn't bring theirs. Zappers, 3D glasses, 32-bit upgrades, CD-ROM's, power-base converters, etc.

 

So if you get down to it, SEGA didn't win any battles except "who can push the most shovelware" which was something Atari was known for before it crashed the market.

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Neo Geo also had a decent supply of run n' gun/platforming games too, puzzles, and brawling games. It wasn't just fighting and (space) shooters, and a selection of solid sports/racing games too. They only really lacked in RPG style games, the closest being those adventure/rpg(very lite) stuff like Crossed Swords 1 and 2(MVS boot was made but a CD game really) and Super Spy.

 

 

Jin you're right as far as MK1 goes on SNES sweating Immortal Kombat. They made up for it with MK2 though as it was probably the best home release outside of I think ti was 32X or SegaCD (I forget) which was slightly 'closer' to the arcade. Nintendo took a pounding over that stupid censorship stunt, it was the straw that slowly broke their back on wussing out games as it ran off buyers.

Edited by Tanooki
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