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I am SO done with eBay auctions!


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#26 Keatah ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 2, 2017 1:29 PM

I was just thinking (a toxic waste producing activity, I know) that ebay's built-in proxy bidding will beat a 3rd party sniping service every single time. Provided you authorize it to do so by placing a high enough amount bid.

 

One time I bid on an interface card for the Apple II. I won it, naturally, I win all that I want.. At the last 20 seconds I authorized $800 for the proxy system. Every 3 seconds till auction end it went up by $20.00. Exactly, precisely every 3 seconds. Too accurate for human timing. So it was some sort of incremental sniping service designed to minimize a last minute run-up by proxy.

 

The end run-up was like $120. But I still got the fucker. Wooot!!



#27 Gentlegamer OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 2, 2017 1:41 PM

I was just thinking (a toxic waste producing activity, I know) that ebay's built-in proxy bidding will beat a 3rd party sniping service every single time. Provided you authorize it to do so by placing a high enough amount bid.

 

One time I bid on an interface card for the Apple II. I won it, naturally, I win all that I want.. At the last 20 seconds I authorized $800 for the proxy system. Every 3 seconds till auction end it went up by $20.00. Exactly, precisely every 3 seconds. Too accurate for human timing. So it was some sort of incremental sniping service designed to minimize a last minute run-up by proxy.

 

The end run-up was like $120. But I still got the fucker. Wooot!!

 

That's why I max bid with bid sniper service. 



#28 chue OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 2, 2017 1:41 PM

Bottom line is that sniping is against the eBay rules, and they do nothing about it. They call themselves an online auction house, but auctions end while there is still active bidding.

 

My little bit of reading on the topic is that it isn't against the rules.  What eBay doesn't like is doing it through a 3rd party, which requires you to give your login info to someone else.  Ebay seems to be against the security aspect of 3rd party sniping, not the fact that bidding is done at the last second.


Edited by chue, Thu Mar 2, 2017 1:43 PM.


#29 Keatah ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 2, 2017 1:57 PM

That's why I max bid with bid sniper service. 

 

Most people don't and therein lies one way for ebay to get max profits. Ebay knows how to get max profits, and if they thought extending the auction minute by minute would yield more, you can bet they would!

 

Sometimes if I really want to snipe and it's during somewhat normal hours I'll just do it myself. Start a minute ahead to measure page refreshes and get an idea of network performance. Over the years I've gotten as close as 3 seconds.

 

Most of the things I buy on ebay are commodity items so there are many chances to pick and choose. And the rare items are so stratified no one ever thinks to look, thus giving me free reign over the "battlefield".



#30 spacecadet OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 2, 2017 2:11 PM

Bottom line is that sniping is against the eBay rules, and they do nothing about it.


It's actually not against the rules. This is what Ebay themselves say about it on their "what to report" page:

 

"The eBay community calls placing a high bid in the closing seconds of an auction-style listing "sniping." Sniping is part of the eBay experience, and all bids placed before a listing ends are valid, even if a bidder places the bid one second before the listing ends. Learn how to avoid being outbid."

 

Yes, it's sleazy, but it's literally what they want you to do. You and I may not like it, but if we want to win auctions, we have to play within the system. Sniping is part of the system Ebay has set up.



#31 Vorticon OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 2, 2017 2:18 PM

On a few auctions, I have noticed that all of a sudden there is a flurry of bids from users with zero feedback and new ID's, driving the price up. I usually quit bidding on these auctions as I think that there is something shady going on here...



#32 spacecadet OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 2, 2017 2:25 PM

On a few auctions, I have noticed that all of a sudden there is a flurry of bids from users with zero feedback and new ID's, driving the price up. I usually quit bidding on these auctions as I think that there is something shady going on here...

 

That's probably shill bidding, and that *is* against the rules. Ebay does investigate that and people are banned all the time for it.

 

Usually auctions with a lot of shill bids are run by people who are pretty new to Ebay. The scam is you run a few cheap auctions/listings semi-legitimately to build some kind of a feedback (usually they get it up to like 5), then try to sell some expensive thing with a bunch of shill bids.

 

Occasionally I see what seems like people who might just not know that shill bidding's against the rules. If an auction goes for a few days and is a lot cheaper than you'd normally expect, then you see what looks like shill bidding, I think in those cases it's probably people who just got scared of the auction ending too cheap.

 

I basically never see anyone with real high feedback doing that, though, because Ebay's actually pretty good at catching it. They do it automatically; they just look at IP's and stuff. And AFAIK they kick you off after the first instance.



#33 Keatah ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 2, 2017 2:26 PM

That would be called shill bidding. I even did it myself in the early days, well just a few times. One time was to help prevent me from shipping a scanner out for less than a dollar! So I had my buddy bid it up to $10 or $20. Be damned if I'm giving away for free.

 

But really, that is a low-brow way of doing business. And when I see (0)feedback bidders raising the price I simply stop. If I get offered a second chance offer I'll take it, but it would have to be at my first original bid, and not the pumped-up shill bids.



#34 save2600 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 2, 2017 2:31 PM

You can automatically block bidders with low, zero or negative feedback - so shouldn't be an issue. I instituted that practice years ago for obvious reasons. In the extremely rare time or two when a new eBay user wanted to bid or purchase on my stuff, they'd write and explain their situation. Every time that's happened, I'd open up the sale to them. When utilized, most of these protective measures have really helped qualify/filter out the scammers. 



#35 Keatah ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 2, 2017 2:42 PM

The one "class" of auctions I absolutely will-not-bid-on are the ones that don't accept questions from sellers. If you, the seller, don't want to deal with me as a buyer or answer simple questions, well then YOU WON'T.

 

Naturally exceptions to the rule are if the seller is out of town or something. But then again why are you running an auction? Why not wait till you get your ass back in town. Yes it could be a last minute emergency or something..



#36 RickyDean ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 2, 2017 2:48 PM

On a few auctions, I have noticed that all of a sudden there is a flurry of bids from users with zero feedback and new ID's, driving the price up. I usually quit bidding on these auctions as I think that there is something shady going on here...

Shell bidding perhaps? Oh hadn't refreshed my screen, they answered it. 


Edited by RickyDean, Thu Mar 2, 2017 2:51 PM.


#37 Schmitzi OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 2, 2017 2:53 PM

Shell bidding perhaps? ......

 

No, if it´s TI-stuff, it´s me :grin:



#38 Vorticon OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 2, 2017 3:51 PM

That would be called shill bidding. I even did it myself in the early days, well just a few times. One time was to help prevent me from shipping a scanner out for less than a dollar! So I had my buddy bid it up to $10 or $20. Be damned if I'm giving away for free.

 

But really, that is a low-brow way of doing business. And when I see (0)feedback bidders raising the price I simply stop. If I get offered a second chance offer I'll take it, but it would have to be at my first original bid, and not the pumped-up shill bids.

 

Best to have the starting price at what you think the value of the item you are selling is, including shipping. That way the worst that can happen is that it does not sell... Always worked for me :)



#39 spacecadet OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 3, 2017 1:09 AM

 

Best to have the starting price at what you think the value of the item you are selling is, including shipping. That way the worst that can happen is that it does not sell... Always worked for me :)

 

My experience - and YMMV - is that I get higher ending prices as a seller with lower starting bids. I start most of my auctions at $1, even if I know the thing I'm selling is worth $1,000. You get people hooked in at the beginning that way and psychologically the longer someone's in an auction, the harder it is for them to let go.

 

I sometimes set the starting price high, but only if I'm not really sure I want to sell something. Then I'll set the price at the minimum it would take to pry that thing away from me, and see if anyone bites.

 

But most of the stuff I sell I know I'm going to sell regardless, and given my experience I'm willing to take a chance on selling it for a bit less than I think it's worth for what I think is the larger chance of it actually going for *more* than I think it's worth after a bidding war. You just have to be willing to live without a net. But I definitely average more than I estimate in advance. No shill bidding :)


Edited by spacecadet, Fri Mar 3, 2017 1:13 AM.


#40 Keatah ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 3, 2017 1:46 PM

Good photos, no stock photos, listing when no other item like it is posted, letting others know you have something for sale by way of message boards.. All little tricks to upping visibility and the final sale price.

#41 Gentlegamer OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 3, 2017 2:00 PM

Good photos, no stock photos, listing when no other item like it is posted, letting others know you have something for sale by way of message boards.. All little tricks to upping visibility and the final sale price.

 

Good advice, but I'd add that you should give that community first look at the item before going to ebay unless you're purely a reseller.



#42 Diecrusher OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 3, 2017 3:53 PM

I absolutely disagree about sniping.... it's a non-issue. 

 

You obviously weren't comfortable entering the MAX amount that you were willing to pay and someone else was willing to pay more.  That is what an auction is.

 

I avoid sniping by simply entering the MAX amount that I would be willing to pay.  I've had some eBay auctions where I have my max bid hundreds of dollars over the current winning bid even if it is as little as $20.

It is simply irrelevant what someone else is willing to pay even if they win by $1.   You should have allowed yourself a greater cushion.



#43 spacecadet OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 3, 2017 6:42 PM

I avoid sniping by simply entering the MAX amount that I would be willing to pay.  I've had some eBay auctions where I have my max bid hundreds of dollars over the current winning bid even if it is as little as $20.

It is simply irrelevant what someone else is willing to pay even if they win by $1.   You should have allowed yourself a greater cushion.

 

Nobody knows what their max bid is. We're humans, not robots. What our max bid is changes depending on the day of the week, how hungry we are, what the weather's like, whether we just got our paycheck, and whether we're fighting with our significant other, among other things.

 

Also, if I decide my "max bid" is $300, does that mean I really wouldn't pay $301? Or $302? People don't have hard limits. Computers do; that's why Ebay's computers will only bid up to what you say and then stop. But the human who came up with that number has no such restriction. So if I put in a max bid of $302, does that mean I wouldn't pay $303? Or $304? Where does this end? It doesn't.

 

The whole idea of a "max bid" is the fatal flaw of Ebay's system, and why people still complain about sniping despite all of Ebay's attempts at tamping down the criticism over the years. There's just no such thing as the "max amount" a person would pay for something. There's only a max amount at this particular time and under these particular circumstances, and all that changes literally from minute to minute. That's why real auctions work the way they do. The person willing to pay the most *at that moment* is the winner, and the auction just goes on until that winner is determined, not on a set time limit.

 

You have to work within Ebay's system if you want to get the stuff they have, but that doesn't mean it's not a stupid system. It is. It goes against human nature, which is why these kinds of complaints will come up again and again, forever, until they change it.



#44 Diecrusher OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 6, 2017 3:51 PM

Also, if I decide my "max bid" is $300, does that mean I really wouldn't pay $301? Or $302? People don't have hard limits. Computers do; that's why Ebay's computers will only bid up to what you say and then stop. But the human who came up with that number has no such restriction. So if I put in a max bid of $302, does that mean I wouldn't pay $303? Or $304? Where does this end? It doesn't.

 

 

You've just described the typical "brick & mortar" auction.  The auctioneer continues to raise the price in whatever increments they are using until everyone's "hard-limit" is eventually hit except for one person, the winner of the auction. 

Every other bidder could just say "oh, it's only $25 more than the last bid, I can do that", but eventually everyone but the winner hits their limit even though they "could" go just a little more. 

Auctions are for getting the highest bid for the seller and thus the highest commission for the auction house not for getting the buyer a bargain.



#45 Keatah ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 6, 2017 3:59 PM

Bargains are important to me as a buyer. I may also not feel like sitting around adding a dollar every 2 minutes till god knows when.



#46 gheller-iii OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 6, 2017 6:06 PM

I actually started using a bidding service because of people running up TI cartridge lots. It seems when you get one bid, everyone jumps on the bandwagon.

 

Many of my auctions with the bid service, I end up the only bidder. I say it's good in those circumstances because who wants people to take notice an auction is getting attention?

 

I use Gixen and although I was initially concerned about my credentials, I found it to be highly recommended. Plus, it works great IF you put in your REAL max bid, then walk away.

 

https://www.gixen.com/



#47 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 6, 2017 6:12 PM

 

I use Gixen and although I was initially concerned about my credentials, I found it to be highly recommended. Plus, it works great IF you put in your REAL max bid, then walk away.

 

It sounds like a service I would not mind using myself, but I have a serious lack of trust when it comes to additional layers or companies having access to anything that could spend my money.  Major companies are getting hacked every day, will these 'small fry' or startup companies be able to protect my information properly?  I dunno, so no, not happening.



#48 MarkO OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 6, 2017 6:20 PM

 

<< SNIP >>


I simply think we'd all be better off with an alternative to eBay.

 

 

http://www.amibay.com/

 

 

I haven't tried using it, but the concept is a good idea...

 

MarkO



#49 dphirschler OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 6, 2017 9:20 PM

Sometimes I win by sniping.  Sometimes I lose.  It's hard, but you just have to tip your hat to the guy and say "Well played, sir".  And then try to win next time.

 

Darryl



#50 digdugnate OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:45 AM

Boy do I feel your pain!  In the last couple of months I've decided to start a TI collection for nostalgia's sake and have gotten sniped on SEVERAL auctions like that.  :)






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