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Homebrew Releases and Reproduction Carts - Please Read!


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#1 Sauron OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 2, 2017 5:06 PM

Recently it's come to our attention that a number of people here and in other parts of the Jaguar community have been offering services for creating carts of current homebrew releases. By the term "Homebrew", this is referring to any active developer or publisher who is currently supporting the Jaguar (ie. currently releasing new games). The developers and publishers in question include but are not limited to the following:
 
AtariAge
Songbird Productions
Piko Interactive
Reboot
Jagware
CyranoJ
4Play/Scatalogic
3D Stooges
Stormworks Interactive

Onorisoft (Orion)

Groovybee

Der Luches

Palaiades

Omf

SporadicSoft

U-235

Beta Phase Games

BitJag
 
(Note: Any developers or publishers not on this list but who want to be, please contact me or post a reply to this thread and I'll add you.)
 
Since there still seems to be some confusion about this topic from both new and old members, here are a few rules to keep in mind before creating a thread here or making a request of other members.
 
1. Do not make public or private requests for reproduction carts or CDs of homebrew games by the above developers. 
 
2. Do not offer services for creating carts or CDs for sale of any games released by the above developers.
 
3. Do not post links to or make requests for ROM or CD images of games that have not been freely released by the developer. If you are not sure about which games have been released in a free format by the developer, you can check the Jaguar Homebrew Projects and Atari ST Games Ported to the Jaguar threads, or ask the developer directly.
 
3. Games that have been released as a free ROM image or in another non-physical manner BY THE ORIGINAL DEVELOPER can be played on a flash cart, Skunkboard, or in an emulator. You can also create a reproduction cart or a CD FOR PERSONAL USE ONLY. This means that you are NOT allowed to sell reproduction carts or CDs of these games.
 
Violations of these rules will not be taken lightly, and will result in actions including the removal of posting or private message use on this site, or even an outright ban. If you are not clear about any of these rules, or if I have somehow missed any, please ask for clarification in this thread and I will update them accordingly.
 
Thanks.



#2 icemanxp300 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 2, 2017 8:47 PM

On the flip side if you are a developer or publisher who does not wish make carts and would like to allow the production of your freeware games that you openly allow the download to please let us know. Whether for a commission or not. Reasons people would like this option available.

 

A: can't not get a worthless jaguar emulator to work on your computer

B: can't find a flashcart/skunkboard and /or lack the knowledge to utilize one

C: lack the equipment/knowledge to make your own game for personal use

 

 

Recently it's come to our attention that a number of people here and in other parts of the Jaguar community have been offering services for creating carts of current homebrew releases.  

 

 

Lets set the record straight here if this is by any means insinuating I AM offering these services because I am NOT!

 

I was contacted by multiple people to make games on etsy and other outlets. One of those games was Hyperforce in which after Looking it up I seen Songbird had the rights and was still selling it so I told them NO.

 

I was recently asked to make Downfall and I did some research and found this thread.

 

http://atariage.com/...eased-downfall/

 

I did not make this but honestly I was going to. I mean hell when you state FREEWARE, program the game w/a header, give the download, include an image the same size as a jaguar cart perfect to make a label out of, and so on. What the hell do you expect people to think. I'm actually astonished you said no when I sent the message, I'm baffled by it.

 

Again I do not advertise making homebrews but I find it quite astonishing that someone restricts peoples abilities to play their games they openly give away for free! I'm not trying to take any money away from anyone but people want the ability to play these games and when developers either release a title in limited quantities and/or request it not be put in cartridge form that just makes no sense.

 

While I am here I was asked about tempest infinite lives hack and checkered flag steering patch. Is there a stronghold on these that I should know about?

 

Maybe you could post what IS allowed to be made for people who can't play the games any other way.



#3 CyranoJ ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 2, 2017 9:08 PM

You have done the correct thing by checking, thank you for doing that and not just making the carts and shipping them off.

 

It is provided as FREE. It is not provided as FREE for someone else to then sell.

 

Go ahead with the Steering Patch and the Lives hack, not bothered about those - spread the love.

 

I am working on updated versions of most of the Reboot catalogue to take advantage of additional space provided by a ROM release (over a CD/BJL file) and will be working to release these updated versions myself via Atari Age.

 

In the case of Downfall, which has already seen a released update, I am working towards a 'DF++' release - there will be some sort of trade in for people who own the DF+ carts when this becomes available (if anyone wants to return it), but I am still working out the details and logistics of that.

 

I didn't want to mention any of this until it became a reality, but here we are. *sigh*



#4 BillyHW OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 2, 2017 9:55 PM

Not that I care about any of this stuff, and I am neither a buyer or a seller in this market, but if I don't have the skills to reproduce a cart myself, why should I be stopped from entering into an agreement with someone who does have those skills?  I could even provide that freeware ROM myself.  If the ROM is freeware, then I'm not paying for the ROM, I'm paying for the services to create and put it on a cart.  So I think the last clause of point #4 is untenable logically and economically.

 

A repro is just a flashcart with one ROM on it and a sticker.

 

We all agree that we are only talking about freeware here.

 

(P.S.  I always find it funny when homebrewers/porters get fanatical about copyright, considering just how shamelessly they violate it themselves.)



#5 WAVE 1 GAMES OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 2, 2017 9:57 PM

That checkered flag steering patch will not work on a burned flash cart. Come on CJ you know that. I'm guessing the T2K lives hack patch won't work either. lol



#6 CPUWIZ OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 2, 2017 10:20 PM

Please keep this thread civil.

 

south-park-s02e03c12-you-will-respect-my



#7 CyranoJ ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 2, 2017 10:44 PM

That checkered flag steering patch will not work on a burned flash cart. Come on CJ you know that. I'm guessing the T2K lives hack patch won't work either. lol

 

Yes it will, if you follow the instructions that came with it and replace the boot header.



#8 Machine OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 2, 2017 10:49 PM

Much needed topic.

To say all the freeware stuff was confusing, is an understatement.  I appreciate all the hard work and will follow the homebrewers wishes.



#9 WAVE 1 GAMES OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 2, 2017 11:32 PM

Yes it will, if you follow the instructions that came with it and replace the boot header.



#10 LianneJaguar64 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 3, 2017 2:08 AM

Recently it's come to our attention that a number of people here and in other parts of the Jaguar community have been offering services for creating carts of current homebrew releases. By the term "Homebrew", this is referring to any active developer or publisher who is currently supporting the Jaguar (ie. currently releasing new games). The developers and publishers in question include but are not limited to the following:
 
AtariAge
Songbird Productions
Piko Interactive
Reboot
Jagware
Atari ST Ports from CyranoJ
4Play/Scatalogic
3D Stooges
Stormworks Interactive
 
(Note: Any developers or publishers not on this list but who want to be, please contact me or post a reply to this thread and I'll add you.)
 
Since there still seems to be some confusion about this topic from both new and old members, here are a few rules to keep in mind before creating a thread here or making a request of other members.
 
1. Do not make public or private requests for reproduction carts or CDs of homebrew games by the above developers. 
 
2. Do not offer services for creating carts or CDs for sale of any games released by the above developers.
 
3. Do not post links to or make requests for ROM or CD images of games that have not been freely released by the developer. If you are not sure about which games have been released in a free format by the developer, you can check the Jaguar Homebrew Projects and Atari ST Games Ported to the Jaguar threads, or ask the developer directly.
 
3. Games that have been released as a free ROM image or in another non-physical manner BY THE ORIGINAL DEVELOPER can be played on a flash cart, Skunkboard, or in an emulator. You can also create a reproduction cart or a CD FOR PERSONAL USE ONLY. This means that you are NOT allowed to sell reproduction carts or CDs of these games.
 
Violations of these rules will not be taken lightly, and will result in actions including the removal of posting or private message use on this site, or even an outright ban. If you are not clear about any of these rules, or if I have somehow missed any, please ask for clarification in this thread and I will update them accordingly.
 
Thanks.


Good to post this, seeing people trying to make a few quid on eBay selling other people's work discourages those people from making games at all, and harms the community in the long (and indeed the short) run

#11 Fredifredo ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 3, 2017 2:44 AM

http://onorisoft.free.fr/?

#12 GroovyBee OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 3, 2017 3:39 AM

Please add me to the list too. Thanks!



#13 Stephen Moss OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 3, 2017 3:55 AM

 

I was recently asked to make Downfall and I did some research and found this thread.

 

http://atariage.com/...eased-downfall/

 

I did not make this but honestly I was going to. I mean hell when you state FREEWARE, program the game w/a header, give the download, include an image the same size as a jaguar cart perfect to make a label out of, and so on. What the hell do you expect people to think. I'm actually astonished you said no when I sent the message, I'm baffled by it.

 

I cannot speak as to the image issue you raised, perhaps that was just co-incidence. As for the other thing I think a lot of people confuse Freeware with PD (Public Domain).

If something is made PD then you can do what you want with it, alter it, re-package/re-distribute it or sell it.

Freeware is still copyright to the author (until the copyright expires or the author states they are subsequently making it PD) and so although it may be free to download and use they can place restrictions on that usage, However, to avoid any confusion they should clearly state what those restrictions are, for example in the context of this thread that would be something like...

To be use on SkunkBoard/emulators only - no hard copies (Cart or CD) or hard copies must be labled as say "contains freeware - NOT FOR RESALE" or "contains freeware  - available for download at: [insert URL here]" so that anyone viewing copies that are put up for sale are aware they can freely download it, then the choice to make a fully informed purchase it theirs. 

 

Not that I care about any of this stuff, and I am neither a buyer or a seller in this market, but if I don't have the skills to reproduce a cart myself, why should I be stopped from entering into an agreement with someone who does have those skills?

 

While I do sympathise with what you are saying in regard to paying to have freeware put on a cart or CD for you own personal use, the problem is that even if you subsequently give the cartridge away the next person may sell it and some people will take advantage of such permission to specifically make copies for sale.

 

If people could be relied upon not to make a profit from placing freeware on CD/Cart only selling purely at a price necessary to cover the cost of production and postage and list that price on the label so that nobody is profiting from other peoples freely provided work and/or fleecing those who do not know better then such things may be allowed.

Unfortunately the odd rotten apple spoils things for everyone and so ultimately the only way to prevent that is for the authors to either produce and sell CDs/Cart themselves or to release as freeware and not to allow the production of hard copies.



#14 Sauron OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 3, 2017 6:07 AM

Not that I care about any of this stuff, and I am neither a buyer or a seller in this market, but if I don't have the skills to reproduce a cart myself, why should I be stopped from entering into an agreement with someone who does have those skills?  I could even provide that freeware ROM myself.  If the ROM is freeware, then I'm not paying for the ROM, I'm paying for the services to create and put it on a cart.  So I think the last clause of point #4 is untenable logically and economically.

 

A repro is just a flashcart with one ROM on it and a sticker.

 

We all agree that we are only talking about freeware here.

 

(P.S.  I always find it funny when homebrewers/porters get fanatical about copyright, considering just how shamelessly they violate it themselves.)

 

Developers and publishers have the right to dictate the terms of how their software is distributed.  If they release freeware and state that they prohibit the sale of reproduction media, it's entirely in their right to do so. If these terms are violated, that greatly discourages them from making future releases, because it shows a lack of respect for their efforts and wishes. You are not entitled to do whatever you want with software from active developers, unless they explicitly state that you are. 

 

 

 

Lets set the record straight here if this is by any means insinuating I AM offering these services because I am NOT!

 

 

This thread wasn't targeted specifically at you. I created it due to your confusion about the issue. There have been several other members who have either requested carts for sale or offered services for making them, so don't feel like I'm pointing a finger specifically at you.



#15 Sauron OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 3, 2017 6:10 AM

 

Please add me to the list too. Thanks!

 

Sorry for forgetting, added Orion and Groovybee to the list.



#16 omf OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 3, 2017 7:04 AM

On the flip side if you are a developer or publisher who does not wish make carts and would like to allow the production of your freeware games that you openly allow the download to please let us know. Whether for a commission or not. Reasons people would like this option available.

 

A: can't not get a worthless jaguar emulator to work on your computer

B: can't find a flashcart/skunkboard and /or lack the knowledge to utilize one

C: lack the equipment/knowledge to make your own game for personal use

 

 

 

 

Lets set the record straight here if this is by any means insinuating I AM offering these services because I am NOT!

 

I was contacted by multiple people to make games on etsy and other outlets. One of those games was Hyperforce in which after Looking it up I seen Songbird had the rights and was still selling it so I told them NO.

 

I was recently asked to make Downfall and I did some research and found this thread.

 

http://atariage.com/...eased-downfall/

 

I did not make this but honestly I was going to. I mean hell when you state FREEWARE, program the game w/a header, give the download, include an image the same size as a jaguar cart perfect to make a label out of, and so on. What the hell do you expect people to think. I'm actually astonished you said no when I sent the message, I'm baffled by it.

 

Again I do not advertise making homebrews but I find it quite astonishing that someone restricts peoples abilities to play their games they openly give away for free! I'm not trying to take any money away from anyone but people want the ability to play these games and when developers either release a title in limited quantities and/or request it not be put in cartridge form that just makes no sense.

 

While I am here I was asked about tempest infinite lives hack and checkered flag steering patch. Is there a stronghold on these that I should know about?

 

Maybe you could post what IS allowed to be made for people who can't play the games any other way.

For me what is most depressing, frustrating and irritating is that something released for free is sold on for profit, for example kaboom was released by me in a beta state and was sold far far above the price of a cdr which is about 50 p ~ tops

 

this is especially annoying for roms.  with xenon 2 we made basically to order, and considering i myself put in a great deal of time making probably close to 300 cartridges, we were restricted to a value to sell them at as per the agreement for non profit by the bitmap brothers it is rather an insult to have these sold on ebay by the individual that bought them from us for 4 or 5 times what they paid us for them, basically making easy money



#17 icemanxp300 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 3, 2017 7:43 AM

this is especially annoying for roms.  with xenon 2 we made basically to order, and considering i myself put in a great deal of time making probably close to 300 cartridges, we were restricted to a value to sell them at as per the agreement for non profit by the bitmap brothers it is rather an insult to have these sold on ebay by the individual that bought them from us for 4 or 5 times what they paid us for them, basically making easy money

 

This can easily be fixed. If you truly want to allow people to play your games at a fair price you need to always have an outlet for people to buy them in. You most definitely need to control ebay. I use ebay, I'm sure many of you do as well. An ebay listing is free these days and you can put good until expired. Why not just make a listing for said game w/unlimited supplies.  Control ebay, etsy, AA, and so forth.

 

 

If people could be relied upon not to make a profit from placing freeware on CD/Cart only selling purely at a price necessary to cover the cost of production and postage and list that price on the label so that nobody is profiting from other peoples freely provided work and/or fleecing those who do not know better then such things may be allowed.

 

 

I would literally post a jag game on ebay for $34.99 That is the exact same price I charge for my current jaguar reproductions on my etsy. You need to control the markets to prevent reselling of your games on those markets.

 

On Atari Age I would charge $30 shipped for a jag repro. I personally don't feel like I am taking advantage of anybody at that price. I have to buy boards, shells, eproms, label material, ink, fees, shipping and so on. Out of $30 the profit goes to do the work of prepping the donor cart "removing the roms and removing old label", prepping the rom for programing, prepping a label, programming chips, testing chips, soldering chips, assembling cart, making labels, packaging, and shipping.

 

That doesn't even figure in the cost and upkeep just to be able to make these. You need a programmer, adapter board, I have a hakko fr-300 desoldering gun, solder, equipment to print and cut labels that look decent.

 

Getting into reproductions is not cheap and definitely not easy when you know nothing at all. Then toss in a 64 bit windows like me and get screwed even more as none of these programs work. I have to use dosbox to use romsplit. Of course none of this seems like a big deal if you know what you are doing. The average person does not and it's a lot of time invested to learn this stuff that is not paid for.

 

Plus unless you buy stuff like eproms, donors, and labels in bulk you are paying double the cost to make a few games. The average person would have to spend way too much to be able to make these to even make it worth there wild.



#18 Sauron OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 3, 2017 8:24 AM

 

This can easily be fixed. If you truly want to allow people to play your games at a fair price you need to always have an outlet for people to buy them in. You most definitely need to control ebay. I use ebay, I'm sure many of you do as well. An ebay listing is free these days and you can put good until expired. Why not just make a listing for said game w/unlimited supplies.  Control ebay, etsy, AA, and so forth.

 

 

 

 

I would literally post a jag game on ebay for $34.99 That is the exact same price I charge for my current jaguar reproductions on my etsy. You need to control the markets to prevent reselling of your games on those markets.

 

On Atari Age I would charge $30 shipped for a jag repro. I personally don't feel like I am taking advantage of anybody at that price. I have to buy boards, shells, eproms, label material, ink, fees, shipping and so on. Out of $30 the profit goes to do the work of prepping the donor cart "removing the roms and removing old label", prepping the rom for programing, prepping a label, programming chips, testing chips, soldering chips, assembling cart, making labels, packaging, and shipping.

 

That doesn't even figure in the cost and upkeep just to be able to make these. You need a programmer, adapter board, I have a hakko fr-300 desoldering gun, solder, equipment to print and cut labels that look decent.

 

Getting into reproductions is not cheap and definitely not easy when you know nothing at all. Then toss in a 64 bit windows like me and get screwed even more as none of these programs work. I have to use dosbox to use romsplit. Of course none of this seems like a big deal if you know what you are doing. The average person does not and it's a lot of time invested to learn this stuff that is not paid for.

 

Plus unless you buy stuff like eproms, donors, and labels in bulk you are paying double the cost to make a few games. The average person would have to spend way too much to be able to make these to even make it worth there wild.

 

Yes, Jag carts aren't cheap or easy to make, but that still doesn't entitle anyone to create carts of homebrew releases for resale. It's just disrespectful to the developers who put in the time and effort to create the games, especially if they are also putting time and effort into creating their own cart releases of games that are distributed for free. Although the distribution options for games aren't at an ideal state yet, it's still a hell of a lot better than it was just a few years ago, and it's improving all the time. If something like the SD adapter is released and can be made available in enough quantities to satisfy demand, then it will largely be a moot point.

 

One other note, too. At least in regards to Reboot games, all of them work fine in Virtual Jaguar, as this emulator is used extensively in the development of the games. If you're having trouble with getting VJ to work, then feel free to create a thread about the problem, and I'm sure people will be happy to help.



#19 icemanxp300 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 3, 2017 8:53 AM

 

Yes, Jag carts aren't cheap or easy to make, but that still doesn't entitle anyone to create carts of homebrew releases for resale. It's just disrespectful to the developers who put in the time and effort to create the games, especially if they are also putting time and effort into creating their own cart releases of games that are distributed for free. Although the distribution options for games aren't at an ideal state yet, it's still a hell of a lot better than it was just a few years ago, and it's improving all the time. If something like the SD adapter is released and can be made available in enough quantities to satisfy demand, then it will largely be a moot point.

 

I and many others fully see your point. I and, I am sure many others are not as I have stated wanting to take away proceeds from anybody. The problem here is not the people selling there games it is the games not being sold. I mean rebooteroids is fine it's available for purchase, although I'm sure some people would rather see a cart only version instead of forking out $80 for complete but that's a whole different discussion.

 

The problem is being able to play the games and not to sound harsh but emulation sucks. I can not get virtual jag to work. I'm assuming there is suppose to be a list in the "insert cartridge" section but mine shows nothing. I even dropped roms into the eeproms folder that the eeproms configure destination shows. Regardless even if I could get it to work it doesn't matter I would rather not play the game at all as compared to being forced to play it on a computer. That's juts my opinion on emulators.

 

If you wish to make games and make it so people can not play them and/or enjoy them properly that is your decision. I don't get it but I don't have to. I personally wouldn't invest the time making a game and then refuse to sell it and make money off my own work. That is something I will never understand. You make it sound like people willing to make these games are making a profit from you. We are not. We simply charge a fee for the time it takes to make a real cartridge. If you did make a production run unless you are making these carts yourself you are paying someone to make these games.

 

Just as you don't want to see people profiting of your hard work on the flip side people are not going to provide a service for free. There is a reason rebooteroids cost $80 and NOT $50. Just saying someone is getting paid for the time and supplies it takes to make that game and odds are it is NOT the people who developed it. I'm sure you are getting a cut which you should but someone is getting paid to put these games on real carts.



#20 madman OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 3, 2017 9:09 AM

Legit question and not trying to ruffle feathers: Are the ST ports all public domain ROMs? If not, some of this seems a little hypocritical IMO.

 

As I said in a post that was deleted and I was warned of a ban, I don't condone piracy. I've reported sales on other forums and EBay of pirated Songbird titles. I'm just trying to understand where the line is drawn between someone selling copywritten ports (if they are not public domain) and someone else making a few bucks for their time for burning EPROMs of games NLA or deemed freeware.

 

I'm not trying to start a war and I don't see anything wrong w/the selling of CJ's ports personally.



#21 Sauron OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 3, 2017 10:24 AM

The problem is being able to play the games and not to sound harsh but emulation sucks. I can not get virtual jag to work. I'm assuming there is suppose to be a list in the "insert cartridge" section but mine shows nothing. I even dropped roms into the eeproms folder that the eeproms configure destination shows. Regardless even if I could get it to work it doesn't matter I would rather not play the game at all as compared to being forced to play it on a computer. That's juts my opinion on emulators.

 

The "eeproms" folder is for internal cart eeproms for saved games, not for ROMs of games. Those go in the "Software" folder. Again, if you're having trouble with VJ, make a thread about it and ask for help.

 

 

If you wish to make games and make it so people can not play them and/or enjoy them properly that is your decision. I don't get it but I don't have to. I personally wouldn't invest the time making a game and then refuse to sell it and make money off my own work. That is something I will never understand. You make it sound like people willing to make these games are making a profit from you. We are not. We simply charge a fee for the time it takes to make a real cartridge. If you did make a production run unless you are making these carts yourself you are paying someone to make these games.

 

Just as you don't want to see people profiting of your hard work on the flip side people are not going to provide a service for free. There is a reason rebooteroids cost $80 and NOT $50. Just saying someone is getting paid for the time and supplies it takes to make that game and odds are it is NOT the people who developed it. I'm sure you are getting a cut which you should but someone is getting paid to put these games on real carts.

 

You're sounding ridiculous here, and I hate to say it, but you sound like an entitled brat. I can assure you that no one here has created a game and then made it so that no one can play it. There have been numerous options for playing the free releases. Many have been sold on CD, some others have had limited cart runs. The free downloads can be played through BJJ or with a Skunkboard, or even burn a CD image for themselves.Those without any of those options can try them on an emulator. Just because someone wants to play it on cart doesn't entitle them to do it. If you don't want to play it on an emulator, that's your problem, not anyone else's.

 

Regarding the pricing of new releases...I hope you realize that sales of games are what helps allow this site to exist. With the sheer number of users on a site like AA, it takes a lot of money to fund the site. Provided that this site has been ad-free since day 1, that money has to come from somewhere. So yes, there's some profit coming from those sales, but some is going to help fund the site, and some is going back to the developers to help fund future game development. Regardless, though, it's up to the developers and publisher what to charge for their games.



#22 icemanxp300 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 3, 2017 10:29 AM

some others have had limited cart runs.

 

That right there lies the problem entirely. Always will.



#23 ls650 OFFLINE  

ls650

    Quadrunner

  • 7,466 posts
  • Atari rocks!
  • Location:British Columbia

Posted Fri Mar 3, 2017 10:34 AM

Legit question and not trying to ruffle feathers: Are the ST ports all public domain ROMs? If not, some of this seems a little hypocritical IMO.

I agree - why is it okay for AA to sell ST ports on cart? Have the original developers given permission to port and sell their work from 25+ years ago..?

Sorry, but it does seem to be a double standard in play here.

Edited by ls650, Fri Mar 3, 2017 10:37 AM.


#24 Swansea_Mariner OFFLINE  

Swansea_Mariner

    Chopper Commander

  • 247 posts

Posted Fri Mar 3, 2017 11:08 AM

I agree - why is it okay for AA to sell ST ports on cart? Have the original developers given permission to port and sell their work from 25+ years ago..?

Sorry, but it does seem to be a double standard in play here.


Surely there is a clear distinction here between homebrew and the ST ports. I read this thread as Sauron referring to homebrew or lisensed products where the developer owns through original creation or has bought the IP specifically (please correct me if I'm wrong there Sauron)

#25 travistouchdown OFFLINE  

travistouchdown

    River Patroller

  • 4,576 posts
  • Do the math!
  • Location:Burlington, Vermont

Posted Fri Mar 3, 2017 11:11 AM

At the very least i'm glad all interested parties are able to discuss and work things out.  I think for most people, we love the games and just want a copy and at the end of the day we'd all like to buy it from the AA store which isn't always an option, especially with the Jag. 

 

On the flip side I will be ticked if the ST Ports become unavailable....






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