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No More CRTs


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#1 toddtmw OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 7, 2017 5:56 PM

Well, we knew this would happen just like every other old technology, but this one is extremely sad.

http://venturebeat.c...rcade-machines/

#2 Keatah ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 7, 2017 6:17 PM

From a corporate and profit view, the LCD is superior in countless ways. Less so for the game enthusiast. But elimination of radiation flying around is a good thing for everyone.

Edited by Keatah, Tue Mar 7, 2017 6:41 PM.


#3 simbalion ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 7, 2017 6:34 PM

It is sad, really and even worse for those of us that like the black and white raster games. For the color units, well with the way people are multi-cading cabs around my area, collectors might be able to gather up the monitors these converters are pulling out for a while. That's how I got a nice Space Invaders monitor with a practically new CRT in it a few years back. Yes, I was able to check that CRT and it reads very strong and no burn-in. I must admit, I am going to start keeping an eye out for parts. Might be wise to post some want ads in your area to grab some of this stuff before some hacker simply tosses it in the trash. It will keep our games running more original for longer anyways.



#4 Mulletino OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 7, 2017 6:38 PM

That "How it's Made" video was amazing!



#5 BassGuitari OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 7, 2017 6:42 PM

I have maybe 6 or 8 old CRT televisions I keep around for use at shows, but I'm scaling back what I take out now and don't really need so many CRTs. I was thinking about getting rid of them, but now I'm rethinking that.

One of them is a little 12" B/W Zenith that I love for Pongs and just general "vintage vibe" (sometimes I even hook up a 2600 or NES even though I have plenty of color screens) but I think the tuner went out of whack on it. I'm hoping I can fix it one of these days.



#6 save2600 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 7, 2017 6:52 PM

Keep your CRT's this has been a PSA.   :lol:

#7 Keatah ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 7, 2017 6:53 PM

You know, the video was pretty cool. And I see little there that couldn't be automated with today's manufacturing technology. Unless those companies are so full of shit and their equipment isn't up to the task..?

In reality, though, matrix displays are pretty damned good, you just have to match the video generation circuitry to the display tech. No half-assed conversions.

#8 Crimefighter OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 7, 2017 7:03 PM

If there's demand for them - considering how much the arcade is making a comeback, someone may do a run of CRTs to fill a demand.  But it will take some time for that to happen.



#9 save2600 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 7, 2017 7:05 PM

HUGE demand for vacuum tubes in the audio realm for several years, yet no U.S. manufacturers have stepped up. Only China and Russia continue to lead that way. Even hospital equipment manufacturers (last holdout for X-Y monitors) have gone LCD. IF this is the end for CRT's, doubt we'll see a comeback. 



#10 racerx OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 7, 2017 7:56 PM

There are two versions of this article floating around, and they're both equally stupid.

 

First, I simply cannot fathom what effect a crap multicade manufacturer's dwindling supply of 29" monitors has on classic arcade machines.

 

Second, aside from a few NOS scores, none of us have used new monitors in our vintage machines for years.  Short of severe Pac burn or necking a tube, there's no reason your typical 30-40 year old Wells-Gardner, Motorola, Sanyo, or Electrohome monitor isn't going to last another 30-40 years.

 

Clickbait article, nothing more.



#11 simbalion ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 7, 2017 7:58 PM

There is always the possibility some specialty market might pop up for new CRTs. Right now the end of CRT production will really hurt places that run their arcade games hard. For casual collectors like myself, we might be able to make our old units last longer. Personally, I don't run my games hard. They are on at most.. maybe 2 hours at a time. And sometimes that is once or twice a week when the mood hits me. Definitely not the hard slog these games saw back in their heydays. Actually, I wonder if modern LCDs can even last as long as the monitors did in the old arcade games between rebuilds? Remember, they were often run 24 hours a day, 7 days a week!

I agree, keep your CRTs for now if you can. I need to look in my games, especially the black and white units, and copy down the CRT numbers. Most black and white games used 23 inch CRTs and there is good chance they are the same as used in TV sets at the time. I know the monitor in my Midway Racer is basically the guts of a Magnavox console TV minus the tuner parts.



#12 racerx OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 7, 2017 8:06 PM

There is always the possibility some specialty market might pop up for new CRTs. Right now the end of CRT production will really hurt places that run their arcade games hard.

 

Talk to people like Doc at Galloping Ghost.  Hundreds of machines on all day, every day.  I guarantee he got a good chuckle out of this article.

 

Yeah, I've got the odd Makvision but for the most part collectors just rejuve guns and rebuild chassis.  Most of these monitors will long outlive their LCD counterparts.


Edited by racerx, Tue Mar 7, 2017 8:06 PM.


#13 simbalion ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 7, 2017 8:09 PM

There are two versions of this article floating around, and they're both equally stupid.

 

First, I simply cannot fathom what effect a crap multicade manufacturer's dwindling supply of 29" monitors has on classic arcade machines.

 

Second, aside from a few NOS scores, none of us have used new monitors in our vintage machines for years.  Short of severe Pac burn or necking a tube, there's no reason your typical 30-40 year old Wells-Gardner, Motorola, Sanyo, or Electrohome monitor isn't going to last another 30-40 years.

 

Clickbait article, nothing more.

I wouldn't call this a Click bait article. It is merely pointing out the end of an era in all respects. As far as as an arcade monitor lasting, well how much emission life do these picture tubes have left in them? I know that the newer tubes are better than the first tubes used in TVs (not unusual to see those replaced after far less hours of use), but they all will eventually lose emission. There used to be places in the US that rebuild picture tubes due to that happening. When things went disposable, they started to disappear. I think the last one closed here five or so years ago.

Also, there is the issue of flyback transformers failing. I know the shop near me has had to start replacing the flybacks on the G07 monitors due to them failing more often. The one on my Centipede lasted 3 years of light use after the recap and POW! Luckily, new ones are (or were) still available. Not trying to be alarmist, just realistic. I love the look of a properly rebuilt CRT monitor in an arcade game. Since the flyback replacement and second recapping of the one in my Centipede, the colors just pop in a way LCDs just can't match.


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#14 save2600 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 7, 2017 8:12 PM

 
Talk to people like Doc at Galloping Ghost.  Hundreds of machines on all day, every day.  I guarantee he got a good chuckle out of this article.
 
Yeah, I've got the odd Makvision but for the most part collectors just rejuve guns and rebuild chassis.  Most of these monitors will long outlive their LCD counterparts.

 

Very true, but before long, people realize all they have to do is replace the ballast board, power supply or logic board in order to keep an LCD going on the cheap.

#15 simbalion ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 7, 2017 8:17 PM

Rejuvenation does work. I have a nice CRT tester with rejuvenation, but my charts only go up to the late 60's. Although some of those tube numbers match the black and white CRT games. I was able to bring back a basically dead 16AP4 tube back to somewhat usable status that way. Good luck finding replacements for those metal bell tubes! Still, there are some tubes that it doesn't take on. Now, in my experience, some tubes will also come back up a bit with use if they have been sitting. As far as necking a tube, I will say that arcade cabs are better designed to avoid that than TVs. TVs always had that little neck cup sticking out the back and CRUNCH! Been there, done that. :(



#16 Turbo-Torch ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 7, 2017 9:31 PM

I wouldn't call this a Click bait article.

 

Yeah, it is click bait.  It's an article written in 2017 acting like it's breaking news that CRTs are gone.  I also got a good laugh at the mention of plasma...as if it's some hot new technology instead of something that died off several years ago.

 

As far as as an arcade monitor lasting, well how much emission life do these picture tubes have left in them?

 

You can buy TVs all day long that are pushing 70 years old and still have perfectly fine picture tubes.  Even if you have a CRT that's right at the end of its life with only 1,000 hours left, how many years of use is that for a game in someone's home?

I just looked up free TVs on my local Craigslist and there are currently over 60 CRT sets available.  19" sets are common and many of those CRTs are easily adapted into a monitor chassis.



#17 Keatah ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Mar 8, 2017 12:10 AM

There is always the possibility some specialty market might pop up for new CRTs. Right now the end of CRT production will really hurt places that run their arcade games hard. For casual collectors like myself, we might be able to make our old units last longer. Personally, I don't run my games hard. They are on at most.. maybe 2 hours at a time. And sometimes that is once or twice a week when the mood hits me. Definitely not the hard slog these games saw back in their heydays. Actually, I wonder if modern LCDs can even last as long as the monitors did in the old arcade games between rebuilds? Remember, they were often run 24 hours a day, 7 days a week!


No. I've seen how LCD panels age, they become mottled, and the fluid absorbs contaminants from the seal. And the back lights tend to dim and become uneven. LCD is built from non-inert materials, whereas CRT is not.

LCD is superior in ways CRT is not, and the other way around.

#18 Mitkraft OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Mar 8, 2017 12:30 AM

There are lots of CRT tv's out there ripe for tube swaps. The arcade guys have been doing it for years. Considering the frequency you need a new tube (not to mention how old this "news" is) this article is certainly click bait as was pointed out.

Edited by Mitkraft, Wed Mar 8, 2017 12:30 AM.


#19 Keatah ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Mar 8, 2017 3:35 AM

Calling it click-bait shows one's vanity and and egotism. Might be news to someone not familiar with the situation. Like it or not this is how knowledge is handed down. And "experts" should be tolerant here.

 

CRT rejuvenation is hit or miss. Good for a couple of shots, then the Cathode gets thin and blows out.



#20 Tanooki OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Mar 8, 2017 8:51 AM

If it wasn't for my Neo Geo cab with the 25" CRT within it I'd probably not care, but I do as it's not 100% perfect.  Perhaps it just needs a rejuvenation or cap kit/fly back done on it but I do not have the tools or skills to handle that.  I'd wonder if perhaps finding a way in time to mouse a 4:3 ratio computer standard (ie just a few ms of lag at best) LCD over your can be very laggy TV style LCD would be a solid choice.



#21 atarian63 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Mar 8, 2017 9:54 AM

yes, never been sold on lcd replacements, at least not for the 78-85 era of arcades, just something missing.. hard to say exactly what but the experience is different, could be the flaws in crt tech is what I like or am accustomed to, for those who did not grow up with them seems to be less of an issue, to each his own I guess.



#22 toddtmw OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:45 PM

 
Clickbait article, nothing more.


I don't understand the negativity that I see on this board.

#23 racerx OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:29 PM

I don't understand the negativity that I see on this board.

 

Is it negativity when a crap article is pointed out as being crap?

 

Look, if you're the author I'm sorry for being blunt.  But I had this silly clip forwarded to me by friends, posted all over Facebook, and it's simply bunk.  New 19" monitors already haven't been manufactured in years, and a multicade manufacturer using 29" tubes is used for an example of the adverse effect the loss of CRT production is going to have on classic arcade gaming.  Not only are the two completely unrelated, but 99% of those buying a monstrosity from Dream Arcades would probably have a monster LCD anyway.

 

I'm picking up a new G07 from a friend in a couple of weeks.  Trust me...despite the hysterical headline, "Donkey Kong’s failing liver: What the death of the CRT display technology means for classic arcade machines," I could also grab a replacement 20EZ as well.

 

So yeah.  Clickbait article, and it's obviously been successful.

 

monitor1.jpg monitor2.jpg monitor3.jpg



#24 toddtmw OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:35 PM

I'm not the author. I thought it was intersting and I shared it. Your comments are interesting and informative without the negative jabs. Why do you feel you have to be so negative?

 

It's not just you. I see it all over this forum.



#25 racerx OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:46 PM

I can only speak for myself, but as an arcade collector with a degree in journalism I'm annoyed by badly posited, poorly researched, factually inaccurate articles going viral on the internet and forwarded to me by friends and family with "Hey, did you know...?" subject lines.

 

Had this piece been positioned as a "Hard to Believe: CRT Production Has Finally Ended" article rather than a sensational "ERMAGERD! YOUR DONKEY KONGS ARE DEADZORS!!!1oNE" click generator, my reaction likely would have been much different.






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