Jump to content

Photo

Games that use Apple II-style artifacting for colors


80 replies to this topic

#1 AlecRob OFFLINE  

AlecRob

    Chopper Commander

  • 133 posts
  • The hippies were right.
  • Location:Taylorsville, KY

Posted Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:28 PM

Does anyone have a list of games that use this graphical technique?   I'm fascinated by this graphical style on the A8... Why was it even used?  The hardware was capable of regular color, so why use tricks to produce inferior quality?



#2 Keatah ONLINE  

Keatah

    Quadrunner

  • 16,570 posts

Posted Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:53 PM

Ultima ][ does. Others in the series might. I could guess that since the games were first made on the Apple II in monochrome(to generate artifacting) it was too much work to rewrite the Atari ports.

There are many games that got ported but never improved. Again laziness and cost.

#3 ZylonBane OFFLINE  

ZylonBane

    River Patroller

  • 3,747 posts
  • Location:KC, KS, USA

Posted Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:03 PM

Why was it even used?  The hardware was capable of regular color, so why use tricks to produce inferior quality?

 

Because Apple II ports and to combine hi-res graphics and color on the same screen.

 

We've already had this thread anyway.



#4 Mclaneinc OFFLINE  

Mclaneinc

    River Patroller

  • 4,719 posts
  • Location:Northolt, UK

Posted Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:04 PM

AE and Drol are obvious items



#5 MrFish ONLINE  

MrFish

    River Patroller

  • 3,784 posts
  • Location:1010-1010

Posted Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:04 PM

Here are couple more threads on the subject:

 

Artifacting on the A8
 

Artifacting: Why use it?
 


Edited by MrFish, Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:06 PM.


#6 Mclaneinc OFFLINE  

Mclaneinc

    River Patroller

  • 4,719 posts
  • Location:Northolt, UK

Posted Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:06 PM

Does anyone have a list of games that use this graphical technique?   I'm fascinated by this graphical style on the A8... Why was it even used?  The hardware was capable of regular color, so why use tricks to produce inferior quality?

 

Because it was a quirk of the NTSC system, colours with no fancy tricks of code..



#7 MrFish ONLINE  

MrFish

    River Patroller

  • 3,784 posts
  • Location:1010-1010

Posted Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:08 PM

...and to combine hi-res graphics and color on the same screen.

 

And particularly, to get them both on the same scanlines.


Edited by MrFish, Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:11 PM.


#8 Gunstar OFFLINE  

Gunstar

    Gunstar

  • 8,251 posts
  • Location:Kellyville, Oklahoma

Posted Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:15 PM

I got so used too and indoctrinated into NTSC artifacting with games from the Ultima series and pinball Construction Set, AND using it in some high-res graphic applications, that I hated, at first, not having it anymore with my S-video PAL XL. I am getting used to monochrome with no color and it is better for high-res games from England and Europe where they didn't use artifacting, but I will be getting an NTSC machine up and running soon for some artifacting graphics. Also, with artifacting colors, sometimes what I would do was to turn down the color on the monitor and get shades of grey that looked cool, especially on the high-res games that didn't use artifacting to advantage, but it occurs whether you like it or not. 


Edited by Gunstar, Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:20 PM.


#9 MrFish ONLINE  

MrFish

    River Patroller

  • 3,784 posts
  • Location:1010-1010

Posted Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:42 PM

...but it occurs whether you like it or not. 

 

But only when you're hooked up using composite or RF.

 

That's why I have a single system hooked up with composite and s-video simultaneously. Then I can switch between the two as needed.



#10 toddtmw ONLINE  

toddtmw

    Chopper Commander

  • 174 posts
  • Location:Cincinnati, Ohio

Posted Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:44 PM

Katateka

#11 toddtmw ONLINE  

toddtmw

    Chopper Commander

  • 174 posts
  • Location:Cincinnati, Ohio

Posted Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:44 PM

Oh and pinball construction set.

#12 MrFish ONLINE  

MrFish

    River Patroller

  • 3,784 posts
  • Location:1010-1010

Posted Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:45 PM

Katateka

 

Nada



#13 zzip OFFLINE  

zzip

    Dragonstomper

  • 643 posts

Posted Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:31 AM

Does anyone have a list of games that use this graphical technique?   I'm fascinated by this graphical style on the A8... Why was it even used?  The hardware was capable of regular color, so why use tricks to produce inferior quality?

 

I think a lot of times it was used to make porting from Apple II easier!



#14 ZylonBane OFFLINE  

ZylonBane

    River Patroller

  • 3,747 posts
  • Location:KC, KS, USA

Posted Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:35 AM

Katateka

 

This guy knows kang fo.



#15 bfollett OFFLINE  

bfollett

    Dragonstomper

  • 507 posts

Posted Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:43 AM

There are 2 similar thread on apple going right now.  I mentioned in the other thread that Aztec was another apple 2 port that used artifacting.

 

Bob



#16 Bryan ONLINE  

Bryan

    Quadrunner

  • 10,372 posts
  • Cruise Elroy = 4DB7
  • Location:Chesaning, MI

Posted Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:54 AM

#1 reason is resolution. Even with color artifacts and composite losses, using 320 mode allows more detailed objects than 160 mode.



#17 MrFish ONLINE  

MrFish

    River Patroller

  • 3,784 posts
  • Location:1010-1010

Posted Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:58 PM

#1 reason not to use it: things tend to look sloppy where unintentional artifacting occurs. This is why I prefer to target 320 mode graphics for systems using s-video, and add color using PM's if necessary/desired.

#2 reason not to use it: single color artifacting ends up being at 160 anyway.

#3 reason not to use it: NTSC only.


Edited by MrFish, Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:32 PM.


#18 Synthpopalooza OFFLINE  

Synthpopalooza

    Stargunner

  • 1,244 posts
  • Location:knoxville, TN

Posted Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:11 PM

It is possible to get the IBM CGA color palette (16 colors) using artifacting and interlace.

 

The trick is to alternate the background PF2 every scanline between two colors on opposite sides of the color wheel:  Blue-gold, Red-cyan, or Magenta-green, depending on which artifact phase your computer uses.

 

Then, all the possible artifact/non artifact blends (16 of them) will get you two reds, two blues, two greens, two yellow, two magenta, two cyan, and 4 greyscale.



#19 MrFish ONLINE  

MrFish

    River Patroller

  • 3,784 posts
  • Location:1010-1010

Posted Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:25 PM

It is possible to get the IBM CGA color palette (16 colors) using artifacting and interlace.

 

The trick is to alternate the background PF2 every scanline between two colors on opposite sides of the color wheel:  Blue-gold, Red-cyan, or Magenta-green, depending on which artifact phase your computer uses.

 

Then, all the possible artifact/non artifact blends (16 of them) will get you two reds, two blues, two greens, two yellow, two magenta, two cyan, and 4 greyscale.

 

One of the ugliest color palettes known to man. :D

 

Seriously, though, do you have a practical example that uses this technique?



#20 Fletch OFFLINE  

Fletch

    Dragonstomper

  • 995 posts
  • Location:Pennsylvania

Posted Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:51 PM

I believe Gumball also used this.



#21 MrFish ONLINE  

MrFish

    River Patroller

  • 3,784 posts
  • Location:1010-1010

Posted Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:55 PM

I believe Gumball also used this.

 

No, it used some anti-aliasing and dithering, but all 160 mode.



#22 Mclaneinc OFFLINE  

Mclaneinc

    River Patroller

  • 4,719 posts
  • Location:Northolt, UK

Posted Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:19 PM

I don't think many games used it apart from some of the Apple ports, its not really a nice look and very restricted, even with changing things like Drol in PAL land from 0F to 0E in the display list still looked ugly. Stuff like Apple ports suffered from the wish to do a simple port and also keep it like the Apple look rather than using the better host machine.....Its a nonsense that runs through computer history, think Peter Johnson's ST to Amiga ports, totally lazy in terms of using the hardware but the volume of work he had made it very easy for him not to venture in to support the Amiga hardware more, page screen scrolling on the Amiga, disgusting... :)

 

He hated seeing us at the shows because he knew it was going to be "oy, sort out the Amiga please", same with Steve Bak (Goldrunner fame), so lazy ports..


Edited by Mclaneinc, Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:20 PM.


#23 GlowingGhoul OFFLINE  

GlowingGhoul

    Chopper Commander

  • 170 posts

Posted Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:53 PM

Well, I love the way (intentional) artifacting looks in A8 games.

 

Choplifter - the delicate, single pixel pulsating stars in the background, and the overall crispness of the graphics.

Ultima III - High resolution text on the same horizontal plane as multi-color graphics. Even my loved Alternate Reality is kind of sloppy in this regard, wasting space on either side of the main window.

 

Don't think we would have gotten nearly as much software early on if artifacting wasn't available making conversions much easier. I'm skeptical software houses would have gone through the expense of converting to Atari's lower resolution modes on an unproven system.



#24 MrFish ONLINE  

MrFish

    River Patroller

  • 3,784 posts
  • Location:1010-1010

Posted Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:22 PM

Even my loved Alternate Reality is kind of sloppy in this regard, wasting space on either side of the main window.

 

Where does Alternate Reality use artifacting?



#25 atarian63 OFFLINE  

atarian63

    River Patroller

  • 4,192 posts
  • Location:columbus ohio

Posted Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:26 PM

I remeber a few of those, always made me grumble a little to have an inferior style on a superior graphics machine.






0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users