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Connecting to a BBS Without a Phone Line?


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#51 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:04 PM

for an mss-100 you need null modem cable....

 

If you go to the lantronix site you will see I am correct... and since it works.....

 

certain lantronix device server need straight other need null, whatever the mood of designer was that day I guess....


Edited by _The Doctor__, Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:10 PM.


#52 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:14 PM

according to itx a full handshake DB9-to-DB25 Null Modem is wired like this:

DB9              DB25
RXD ----------2 TXD
TXD ----------3 RXD
DTR ------|---6 DSR
                |---8 DCD
SG  ----------7 SG
DSR ---|-----20 DTR
DCD ---|
RTS 7----------5 CTS
CTS 8----------4 RTS


Edited by _The Doctor__, Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:14 PM.


#53 Tillek OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:15 PM

What kind of cable do I want going from the MSS-100 to the computer?  Serial or Null Modem?

It's a null modem cable you need.  (I actually use one of these for my BBS, and I rely on the DNS resolution since I'm in FidoNet and can't convert the whole nodelist to IP addresses).

 

The only thing you have to be careful about.... not all null modem cables wire up the hardware handshaking lines.  While you'd still be able to use it, hardware handshaking probably won't work... (Then again, not sure if the 850 even supports that or if it matters at 9600 and below).



#54 Tillek OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:20 PM

Well I managed to find a MSS-100 here in the junk pile at work (I thought I had seen one a while back) so I'm good.  Now all I need is the modem cable, an SIO cable, and I'm all set.  The bonus is that I can use this on my TI-99, Apple II, and C128 (although I need to get an RS-232 adapter for it).  Of course I'm not exactly sure what the point of dialing into BBSs is anymore since I doubt there's much going on on them, but it will be fun.  Why not?

I've seen Particles BBS get usually 10-50 new local messages a day... They're a Commodore 8-bit BBS running on a real C128D.

 

I call daily so I don't get overwhelmed.  Last time I skipped a couple weeks I came back to over 500 messages.



#55 Tillek OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:44 PM

So for a TI99 or Apple II I'd need a regular Serial cable then?

No.  Fujidude is not correct.  Well, to be fair, he's correct in what he's describing... but the MSS-100 has a DTE port.

 

I use an MSS-100 on my BBS machine. I use a standard serial cable with a Radioshack null modem adapter on the computer end and a gender changer on the Lantronix end because unlike the UDS-10 which has a female 25 pin connector, the MSS-100 has a 25 pin MALE connector (as you'd expect with a DTE port).

 

UDS-10 - 41EQPAM6APL.jpg

MSS-100 - MSS100.gif

 

 

This guide from Lantronix explains it well (and includes wiring diagrams). http://ltxfaq.custhe...al-cable-wiring

 

For any other computer, you'd use the same setup (except perhaps with an adapter depending on whether it's a 9 or 25 pin).

 

In the case of the 850, they do have null cables (They call them terminal cables) http://www.ebay.com/...DVGfPh3Yk-V7qNQ

 

But here is what I'd suggest.  Find a 25 pin null modem adapter (hopefully with gender changer) and put that on the MSS-100 so that what you have is a null modem adapter (and/or gender changer) which ends up with a female DB-25 facing the world and never take that off.  Then use a "regular modem" cable for whatever machine you are currently using it on (since most modems were DB25 female connectors, finding that cable should be easy enough)....

 

That should be good to go.



#56 Tillek OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:56 PM

@Doc, on the LANTronix:

 

If you ever come up with info on these two issues:

 

 

The big things are (in order of priority [from a BBS standpoint])

 

1: Some form of BUSY message to inform the caller if this link is just busy, or dead.

 

2. DNS Resolution.  Would be nice to get working, would help.

 

It works, but could be better.

 

:)

Just for the record, I'd love to have the IP address either logged, or delivered with the connection string perhaps (or even better, the same way the caller id was transmitted for modems that did that).  RatSoft has no way of intercepting the data from the "RING" where the IP currently appears. "RING 192.168.1.1" as the case may be. 

 

And like Kyle said, a "doesn't connect" when the system isn't responding is ok... Like him, I need a way to let users know "hey, it's just busy, really, everything is totally cool so call back in a minute" rather than "hey, could be busy.... could be down.... figure it out yourself" as they wander off and never come back.

 

I remember a few months ago, after activity started to pick up on my BBS (actually a bunch of new callers lately... just wish they'd post or play games or something. :( ).  I got home from work and like I normally do, I sat down to call the BBS and check the messages (even if no users post, I still read my Fido areas)...

 

I get the "can't connect".... start swearing under my breath about the thing crashing... turn on the monitor.... and someone is actually online!



#57 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:55 PM

the incoming ip address can be reported on connect. at least on the uds models, I will examine if its possible on the eds and mss lines... The bbs needs to capture the ring connect string..... make a waitcall or door that captures that. If you don't capture it that way... you could enter monitor mode... pull the network data... and leave monitor mode.... using a module, script or door to do so....



#58 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:04 PM

um the lantronix I used last would say connection refused if it was busy....

most people understood that meant busy... I will check to see if there is a way to change the connection refused message...

 

if the ability is in your specific device it must be in full verbose mode and the show ip on ring must be set in the devices menu or config switch....

if memory serves....    most of this should be found on the lantronix site...


Edited by _The Doctor__, Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:22 PM.


#59 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:28 PM

ok if ratsoft doesn't then you need to enter monitor mode... and the issue TT    it should list ip stuff then leave monitor mode... again this should be in the manual on the site... i will check on the mss but it's all about the same

 

mss while in modem mode uses atc for command line pass thru... you might get your network info from that... maybe port stat or the like will show the connected ip


Edited by _The Doctor__, Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:52 PM.


#60 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:51 PM

more on the mss

 

http://lantronix.com...pdf/mss_ref.pdf

 

pay attention to netstat, show commands like show user etc....

 

it you are in modem mode see if you can enter command line pass thru and then issue those commands.... see what happens... and make sure you know how to enter and exit....

 

maybe you can use that method to pull the ip and other info you seek :)

 

I can't remember it all but I had an idea as to how it was done. you can download the related materials and scan thru till you find what I was thinking about.... I hope you can use it... like I said the method are slightly different but it still comes out about the same....  I you want you should pick up the sdk and tools... if you had to you might do and old fashioned hex edit of words to something you like better... ring could be call or disconnected could be terminated!!


Edited by _The Doctor__, Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:11 PM.


#61 fujidude OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:08 PM

My apologies for my post where I said the MSS-100 would be wired as a DCE device.  That was an (incorrect) assumption.



#62 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:16 PM

no big thing I mess up all the time these days... I sometimes miss-remember devices or confuse them....   I have people point me to stuff I used to know by heart, and I wrote the posts about what I knew then but forgot now....   catch ya later mr gto....

 

_The Doctor__



#63 Tillek OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:47 AM

My apologies for my post where I said the MSS-100 would be wired as a DCE device.  That was an (incorrect) assumption.

No big deal. I only know because I went from a uds1100 to mss100 and initially made the same assumption.

I only called it out so the guy didn't go off and buy the wrong cable.

#64 Tempest OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:44 AM

In the case of the 850, they do have null cables (They call them terminal cables) http://www.ebay.com/...DVGfPh3Yk-V7qNQ

 

Wait so I want the Atari terminal cable not the modem cable for 850?  Can I make it work with the modem cable since that's what I already ordered? Is the Atari Modem Cable just a regular serial cable or is it wired differently?  I thought the 850 had some strange pinout.

 

I think I have a null modem cable with the appropriate connector (a DB-25) around here somewhere.



#65 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:43 AM

You want the terminal (null modem) cable...    the Atari cable is a different pin out.... look at the pinout I posted it shows the difference between pc and atari db9

To repeat the Atari Cables are wired differently than a 'standard' rs2332 cable...



#66 fujidude OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:48 AM

No big deal. I only know because I went from a uds1100 to mss100 and initially made the same assumption.

I only called it out so the guy didn't go off and buy the wrong cable.

 

That's a good reason to call it out, but just correcting the info in general is good enough reason too.  Too bad RS232 interfaces never got the "auto DX" treatment like 802.11 did.  :)



#67 Tempest OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:03 AM

You want the terminal (null modem) cable...    the Atari cable is a different pin out.... look at the pinout I posted it shows the difference between pc and atari db9

To repeat the Atari Cables are wired differently than a 'standard' rs2332 cable...

 

Ok, just to make it clear on what I need to buy.  I need to buy the ATARI TERMINAL CABLE, the Atari Modem Cable I bought is useless for this?  And it must be the ATARI brand terminal cable?  This is the cable I use for my Atari 850.  I use a regular Null Modem cable for my other systems?

 

Also, how hard would it be to rewire the ATARI MODEM CABLE into an ATARI TERMINAL CABLE?  If it's just a wire or two it might be within my skills and save me $20.



#68 davidcalgary29 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:25 AM

You can use a device by Lantronix to connect your 850 to your internet connection.  Then use your favorite terminal program to 'dial' a telnet BBS.

 

https://www.lantroni...roducts/uds-10/

 

There is some additional info on the Antic Podcast: http://ataripodcast....isode-40-bbsing

 

Bill

 

BBS feature starts around 1:27:30 for those who wish to fast-forward through the podcast. Well worth a listen.



#69 Bill Lange OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:30 AM

All of this chatter has got me interested in setting up a dial-up and/or telnet ATASCII BBS!



#70 davidcalgary29 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:47 AM

It actually is sort of exciting, isn't it? Maybe it's a dumb thought, but I've been wondering if I can use a Lantronix device to enable a networked game of MIDIMaze... :ponder:



#71 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:48 AM

for the  'other systems' not all other systems are standard either it depends on the card or interface you have selected for use with them.... most dumb terminals, smart terminals, x86, *nix , s-100, cp/m, and tel systems use the standards....

most of the early home computer systems had their own 'standard' for serial systems and the add on devices varied from both.... you have to double check them to be sure of the interface and what is supported

For the Atari most devices are modeled after the 850 interfaces first port.... remember the 850's 4 ports differed in what they supported. The mio/pr connection/850 and other such interfaces used the Atari pin-out for the interface side of the cable... to be sure the Atari cable should be labeled as Atari 850 type cables and the intended purpose... Many third parties made such cables



#72 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:54 AM

Nothing stops you from wiring your own...I have rolled my own about 78% of the time,  just make sure to follow the tiny numbers molded into the connector and the proper pin-out you need for each.  The problem with rs 232 was each connector had either male or female ends and people mirror imaged the pin-outs and end up reversing things... the situation became such a mess that eventually is was replace with the universal serial bus (USB) that resembles the Atari SIO more than anything... but if you know your history and who worked on both you surely have an idea why that is.


Edited by _The Doctor__, Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:59 AM.


#73 Tempest OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:59 AM

for the  'other systems' not all other systems are standard either it depends on the card or interface you have selected for use with them.... most dumb terminals, smart terminals, x86, *nix , s-100, cp/m, and tel systems use the standards....

most of the early home computer systems had their own 'standard' for serial systems and the add on devices varied from both.... you have to double check them to be sure of the interface and what is supported

For the Atari most devices are modeled after the 850 interfaces first port.... remember the 850's 4 ports differed in what they supported. The mio/pr connection/850 and other such interfaces used the Atari pin-out for the interface side of the cable... to be sure the Atari cable should be labeled as Atari 850 type cables and the intended purpose... Many third parties made such cables

 

Well, not to get too far off topic, but as for the other systems here is the type of interface:

 

TI-99/4a - PEB with and RS232 card

Apple IIe - Apple Super Serial card

C64 - Not 100% sure yet.  There is an interface/modem repro I've been looking at though: http://www.ebay.com/itm/401033613594

 

And some others I've thought about:

 

Vic-20 - They made a modem for sure, but I'm not sure how useful it would be to get one online

TRS-80 Model 4 - Might be possible, not sure

Coleco ADAM - Not even sure if this is possible.  I think they made an RS-232 card for it, but they're incredibly rare

 

 

 

Nothing stops you from wiring your own...I have rolled my own about 78% of the time,  just make sure to follow the tiny numbers molded into the connector and the proper pin-out you need for each.  The problem with rs 232 was each connector had either male or female ends and people mirror imaged the pin-outs and end up reversing things...

 

Is there a diagram that shows how to convert the Atari Modem Cable to an Atari Null Modem cable?  Since the Atari one is different from the standard one, the diagrams I've found online won't do much good.  You've posted a few ASCII diagrams in your posts, but I'm a bit confused.



#74 fujidude OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:15 PM

Don't buy anything just yet.  I am going to research and put together some information and suggestions on what to buy.  After I post it, let others here peer review it and if all is well, all I ask is that you consider the info.  My feelings won't be hurt if you take a different approach.  There are already some good ideas here as it is.

 

Stay tuned.



#75 Brentarian OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:15 PM

Nothing stops you from wiring your own...

I use a db9 to rj45 adapter <---regular cat5/6 cable---> rj45 to db25 adapter.  Easy to pin out however you want, use short or long cables, and adapters are dirt cheap on Ebay.

s-l1600.jpg s-l1601.jpg

If you make a mistake with the pinout, use this d-sub extraction tool:

s-l1602.jpg

 

I use these at work occasionally if I can't find a console cable for switches, firewalls, UPSes, etc.  They'll go for long distances too -- I've used a 75ft cable in-between and it never missed a step at 57600 baud.






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