Analogue NT Mini Hardware

[phoenixdownita]

You would have thought Analogue would've tested 2 remote-style controllers. Especially of the ones they are selling.

<sarcasm>

They were busy with the aluminum milled case

</sarcasm>

[+eebuckeye]

Where could I buy an adapter for using a Famicom HVC-051 controller with the NT Mini?

 

Thanks!

[phoenixdownita]

Where could I buy an adapter for using a Famicom HVC-051 controller with the NT Mini?

 

Thanks!

I believe Kevtris released a new FW with support for it here:

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242970-fpga-based-videogame-system/page-91?do=findComment&comment=3721674

although I think it worked all along for the NES/FC cores via the famicom extension connector at the back of the unit (the 15pin D-Sub thing), if not kevtris promised to release an updated official FW.

[+eebuckeye]

Ugh.. I never thought about using the Famicom port on the back of the NT Mini.. nice!

[RampantOctopus]

Yeah. You'd think. Maybe they're betting that retro gamers don't have friends. Fools!

[atmn]

Sooooooo, anybody else here using two 8bitdo retro receivers with their nt mini? When I plug in my second player-receiver, I get all sorts of delayed responses, non-responses, un-pairings, etc for both players... I'm considering buying an extension cord to run the second receiver away from the console a bit in hopes of mitigating any interference, but it's a pretty lame solution and I'd prefer that these things just work. Anyone have any experience with this? Advice?

 

8bitdo doesn't say anything about this issue on their site, their contact links are just dead icons that don't link to anything, and they're ignoring a chorus of similar complaints in their forum (which won't allow new registrations... classy...). Anyhow, from looking at their forum it seems that people with the RetroUSB AVS have the same issue with these controllers... Finally, while it's not directly Analogue's problem that these controllers do not seem to work in pairs, at least their support says more on the matter than 8bitdo does offering up a firmware update for retro receivers purchased separately from the nt mini.

 

Anyhow, that's a lot of words to ask, anybody else here have this issue? Ideas?

Yes, can confirm this aswell. More than one are useless actually. Dont know if you can repair them to "another channel" so they be more separated in the 2.4 BT spectrum. I havent bothered testing any futher.

[Radfoo]

I believe Kevtris released a new FW with support for it here:

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242970-fpga-based-videogame-system/page-91?do=findComment&comment=3721674

although I think it worked all along for the NES/FC cores via the famicom extension connector at the back of the unit (the 15pin D-Sub thing), if not kevtris promised to release an updated official FW.

Had not really looked into the Famicom HVC-051, looks like it will be useful on the NT Mini. Anyone know of any cheaper/easier to get hold of 3rd party versions or if they even exist?

Edited March 19, 2017 by Radfoo

[atmn]

Had not really looked into the Famicom HVC-051, looks like it will be useful on the NT Mini. Anyone know of any cheaper/easier to get hold of 3rd party versions or if they even exist?

I got one cheap from ebay a while ago. Collecting for Famicom accessories, and now its very handy. They did not cost that much. 10-15$ just for the controller. The boxed complete is very expensive.

Think you could use the SFC version aswell, you 'll need to make an adapter ofc.

[Flangle]

Has anyone here experienced or heard of the NT Mini having sudden or straight out of the box controller port 1 issues?

 

I'm almost certain this has nothing to do with the cores since I and a friend checked everything we could by trying all the pieces and parts from the NT and my SD card on his NT.

 

I can get to the menu but no controller signal at all. Firmware updates were already tried.

 

Addendum: here's an interesting thing about the buzzing problem on the power supply: when my friend uses the power supply (first run) on his Mini, no buzz, when plugged into mine (second run) there's a very noticeable buzz. Very strange.

Edited March 19, 2017 by Flangle

[mickcris]

Are you using a controller extention cable? The port seems to be a bit different than an original console. I had an extention cable that would not work but another one did. The one that would not work, works fine on an original console.

[Flangle]

We tried with an original NES controller, no extension and we tried the 8Bitdo.

 

The retro receiver gives only a white light and can't be paired unless removed from the bad NT. It doesn't blink normally for pairing when in the bad NT. When hooked up to the USB cable you can link the controller to the retro receiver. You can even update he firmware correctly so it Isn't the receiver.

 

We could open it and check the solders etc, but...warranty. The solder points look fine through the plexi on the bottom.

[Jimjans]

Has anyone here experienced or heard of the NT Mini having sudden or straight out of the box controller port 1 issues?

I'm almost certain this has nothing to do with the cores since I and a friend checked everything we could by trying all the pieces and parts from the NT and my SD card on his NT.

I can get to the menu but no controller signal at all. Firmware updates were already tried.

Addendum: here's an interesting thing about the buzzing problem on the power supply: when my friend uses the power supply (first run) on his Mini, no buzz, when plugged into mine (second run) there's a very noticeable buzz. Very strange.

the buzz is only on my unit when its turned off when I start the unit the buzz stops.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Sooooooo, anybody else here using two 8bitdo retro receivers with their nt mini? When I plug in my second player-receiver, I get all sorts of delayed responses, non-responses, un-pairings, etc for both players... I'm considering buying an extension cord to run the second receiver away from the console a bit in hopes of mitigating any interference, but it's a pretty lame solution and I'd prefer that these things just work. Anyone have any experience with this? Advice?

 

8bitdo doesn't say anything about this issue on their site, their contact links are just dead icons that don't link to anything, and they're ignoring a chorus of similar complaints in their forum (which won't allow new registrations... classy...). Anyhow, from looking at their forum it seems that people with the RetroUSB AVS have the same issue with these controllers... Finally, while it's not directly Analogue's problem that these controllers do not seem to work in pairs, at least their support says more on the matter than 8bitdo does offering up a firmware update for retro receivers purchased separately from the nt mini.

 

Anyhow, that's a lot of words to ask, anybody else here have this issue? Ideas?

Since the NES ports are literally an inch apart, the receivers interfere with themselves as the crosstalk between them drowns out the signal from the controllers. The workaround is to move the two receivers farther apart from one another by attachging an NES extension cord to one of the ports. Once they are more than ~2 feet removed from each other, they will operate properly with their respective controllers. It is a known issue with Bluetooth in general that placing devices too closely together will degrade perfromance. The SNES may suffer from this issue somewhat less as there's about six inches between the ports on a Super Nintendo.

 

Normally this Bluetooth crosstalk is not an issue with modern game consoles because the console has one bluetooth module that pairs with up to four controllers, sometimes more. The controllers can be ten feet away and communicate flawlessly because they're not inches apart. I think this also impacts the issue of left Joycon dropouts with the Switch since the two Joycon are placed in close proximity on the cradle, roughly two-to-four inches apart more or less. The right Joycon has a slightly better antenna design as well so the left Joycon suffers as a result.

 

As for the 8bitdo controllers, the closeness of the controller ports on an original NES, AVS, or NT Mini will absolutely produce crosstalk issues when each receiver is one inch apart and the controllers are ~10 feet away. Using inverse square law at ten feet or 120 inches and assuming an omnidirectional radiation spread, this works out to around ~14,400 times stronger signal from the adjacent receiver, a full four orders of magnitude greater than the signal strength radiating from the controller itself. Even broadcasting on adjacent channels, this is too much for the receiver to overcome.

 

So yes, you absolutely need to separate the receivers in order to get interference free reception in multiplayer, so you either (a) redesign the console such that the controller ports are located further away or (b) use a cable extension to place them apart from each other. It's the only way to ensure clean communication pathways for both controllers.

 

Oh and +1 for their 8bitdo forum software being crap, and you have to be logged in to download older firmwares. I posted a copy of their old v1.10 b4 firmware here in case anyone prefers using B/A for NES instead of Y/B. AFAIK, the primary difference between the custom Analogue provided firmware and the latest official firmware is it disables Turbo function on X/A. It is unknown if the Analogue firmware works in SNES mode or not.

 

 

I was wondering this same thing. Especially, would this modified firmware have any effect on performance should I decide to use it on my AVS?

 

I downgraded my 8bitdo firmware to an older version so I could get B/A support which feels closer to the original Dog Bone or Game Boy. Pet peeve of mine but I HATE Y/B layouts. Which layout do the NT version use?

 

The old firmware for the 8bitdo recievers used B/A mapping for the NES buttons, with Y/X being used for Turbo. The new firmware for the 8bitdo controllers remapped them to Y/B per request of a bunch of gamers who felt the button layout needed to be changed, as well as add compatibility for SNES receivers.

 

The newer firmware maps to Y/B such that the first 8 bits the controller sends are identical for NES/SNES. If the console sends 16 bits or more, the controller maps Y/A/L/R to the remaining bits. If the console sends 8 bits only, the 8bitdo receiver maps turbo function to buttons Y/A.

 

I am curious if the NT Mini custom 8bitdo firmware maps the 8bitdo controllers differently to how the original new and old 8bitdo firmwares operate. Specifically, I want to know which button mapping the Analogue custom firmware uses and if it allows turbo function or other usage of the Y/A/L/R buttons. I may have to test it myself...

 

EDIT: If anyone wants the old beta firmware that maps NES B/A to 8bitdo B/A, I have attached it here:

8Bitdo_RR_Firmware_V1.10_Beta4.zip

 

[Jimjans]

Got a new answer from Analogue today the buzzing in the power supply is not problem its a feature.

 

They say its normal for a power supply to sound like this.

 

Working with electronics myself and its only cheap or poor designed power supplys that sounds like this, If its not a problem with the powersource itself and its not in my case.

Edited March 20, 2017 by Jimjans

[Keatah]

Saying it's supposed to sound like that is an insult to anyone's intelligence. Small home-type power supplies are NOT supposed to make any sound at all. Period.

 

Sounds to me like they want you to go away or something. Can't stand that level of support, not on a $500 console. Freeware software authors give better.

Edited March 20, 2017 by Keatah

[atmn]

Anybody actually opened their mini to test the VGA connector with a multimeter? I'm curious if the defect is in the chip, PCB, ribbon cable, or solder joints. Multiple units affected, and a small piece of 30ga jumper wire may be all that's needed to fix the units.

 

There is an easy way to tell if a vga pin is disconnected or not without disassembly. With the NT running, measure the DC voltage to pin one of the VGA compared to both ground and vcc. If pin 1 to ground is 0V and pin 1 to vcc is also 0V, then the pin is floating or disconnected. If you get non-zero readings on pin 1 to ground or a non-zero reading on pin 1 to vcc, that means it is connected to something, but the signal is not outputting properly.

I was was thinking about it but I' thought that I got nothing to win. If I could not fix it they could claim that the warranty was void. So I did not want to take that risk.

[Radfoo]

We could open it and check the solders etc, but...warranty. The solder points look fine through the plexi on the bottom.

Can see the reluctance to open but i don't think there is a warranty void if removed sticker, does it say anywhere your warranty would be void if you opened it or is that an assumption? From internal picture i have seen the controller ports are on ribbon cables, might be really simple fix, or at least easy to troubleshoot.

[atmn]

Can see the reluctance to open but i don't think there is a warranty void if removed sticker, does it say anywhere your warranty would be void if you opened it or is that an assumption? From internal picture i have seen the controller ports are on ribbon cables, might be really simple fix, or at least easy to troubleshoot.

 

Ye, I suppose. It's no a cheap toy so I did not want to risk it. Actually this is from Analogue Terms and Conditions.

 

 

 

All items are under warranty for 1 year against manufacturer defects. Your warranty is void if it has been opened, tampered with, or modified in any way. Any user inflicted damage is not the responsibility of Analogue.

[Radfoo]

 

Ye, I suppose. It's no a cheap toy so I did not want to risk it. Actually this is from Analogue Terms and Conditions.

 

Fair enough, has to be your own judgement and of course ability I suppose. Think it also gets awkward when you have bought something from another country, hopefully mine will be okay and I'll not have to post back to the USA.

 

Personally I'd open to troubleshoot, check connectors and wot not, though i would not be getting​ the soldering iron out on something that cost me that much and is under warranty.

[Andromeda Stardust]

I was was thinking about it but I' thought that I got nothing to win. If I could not fix it they could claim that the warranty was void. So I did not want to take that risk.

If you reread my post, it is possible to determine with a simple DC multimeter if the VGA connections are in fact connected or not. There may be a defect in the ribbon cables. Stick a thin paperclip or solid copper wire into the female pins on the VGA port and measure the voltage to both ground and VCC while the console is plugged in and powered on. Set the meter to DC volts, 10V or 20V range if it is manual type. Ground and VCC can both be accessed from the controller port, no need to open the console voiding your warranty.

 

Ground to VCC of the controller port should be 5V if the console is powered on. Now measure the voltage on each pin of the VGA port with respect to Ground and VCC. If the meter measures 0V to Ground and 0V to VCC on any pin, it means you have a floating or "open" connection, ie the pin isn't connected to anything. If you get a non-zero reading between the pin and either Ground or VCC, it means the pin is connected to something internally. This method will check for faults or open circuit on the ribbon cable, and is completely safe and will not damage the console or require opening the case to diagnose.

 

If any pin on the VGA port that should be carrying a video signal is "floating" (0v to GND; 0v to VCC) then you have a fault in either the ribbon cable or the connection to the PCB. Otherwise, the cause could be a defective chip or logic on the motherboard, or an improperly wired video cable.

 

 

Maybe Analogue could have cleared this SNAFU by thoroughly testing the hardware, and selling the necessary cables directly through their website, so that anyone interested in utilizing the analog video outputs could bundle the necessary cable(s) with their purchase.

[kevtris]

If you reread my post, it is possible to determine with a simple DC multimeter if the VGA connections are in fact connected or not. There may be a defect in the ribbon cables. Stick a thin paperclip or solid copper wire into the female pins on the VGA port and measure the voltage to both ground and VCC while the console is plugged in and powered on. Set the meter to DC volts, 10V or 20V range if it is manual type. Ground and VCC can both be accessed from the controller port, no need to open the console voiding your warranty.

 

Ground to VCC of the controller port should be 5V if the console is powered on. Now measure the voltage on each pin of the VGA port with respect to Ground and VCC. If the meter measures 0V to Ground and 0V to VCC on any pin, it means you have a floating or "open" connection, ie the pin isn't connected to anything. If you get a non-zero reading between the pin and either Ground or VCC, it means the pin is connected to something internally. This method will check for faults or open circuit on the ribbon cable, and is completely safe and will not damage the console or require opening the case to diagnose.

 

If any pin on the VGA port that should be carrying a video signal is "floating" (0v to GND; 0v to VCC) then you have a fault in either the ribbon cable or the connection to the PCB.

 

There is no 5V on the VGA port. If you want switched 5V, you can use the fami expansion connector (it is switched) but getting a plug to fit might be hard. A normal DB-15 plug will fit fine, but not with one of those plastic back shells. Also, 5V is switched on players 2, 3, 4 controller ports but not 1 since it has to be used to power the system on. Someone posted about using the synch lines and rectifying them to get some voltage which might work, but it will only give you 3.3V minus the diode drop. I am not sure if there's enough current there to make the switching work in the TV/monitor and still run synch like normal.

[Andromeda Stardust]

There is no 5V on the VGA port. If you want switched 5V, you can use the fami expansion connector (it is switched) but getting a plug to fit might be hard. A normal DB-15 plug will fit fine, but not with one of those plastic back shells. Also, 5V is switched on players 2, 3, 4 controller ports but not 1 since it has to be used to power the system on. Someone posted about using the synch lines and rectifying them to get some voltage which might work, but it will only give you 3.3V minus the diode drop. I am not sure if there's enough current there to make the switching work in the TV/monitor and still run synch like normal.

I was just illustraiting that a multimeter could be used to test the presence of a signal to diagnose potential issues with the wiring. I'm aware the video signals are in fact lower than 5V, but assuming everything shares a common ground, there will be measurable voltage on the outputs if they are connected. If it's zero to ground, then it should be -5V to VCC. If it's 1V to ground, then -4 to VCC. I was trying to describe how to check for wiring faults with the VGA connector, since many people are having issues.

 

IF the output pin is 0V to Ground and 0V to VCC, then the pin is likely disconnected from the circuit. Unless there are a bunch of diodes, caps, or other passive components placed in series with the outputs which could skew or block an accurate DC reading. Considering the signals rely on DC bias, I doubt that's the case. I'm just trying to help people determine if faulty wiring was the cause of the analog video issues or some other problem like faulty cables.

[atmn]

If you reread my post, it is possible to determine with a simple DC multimeter if the VGA connections are in fact connected or not. There may be a defect in the ribbon cables. Stick a thin paperclip or solid copper wire into the female pins on the VGA port and measure the voltage to both ground and VCC while the console is plugged in and powered on. Set the meter to DC volts, 10V or 20V range if it is manual type. Ground and VCC can both be accessed from the controller port, no need to open the console voiding your warranty.

 

Ground to VCC of the controller port should be 5V if the console is powered on. Now measure the voltage on each pin of the VGA port with respect to Ground and VCC. If the meter measures 0V to Ground and 0V to VCC on any pin, it means you have a floating or "open" connection, ie the pin isn't connected to anything. If you get a non-zero reading between the pin and either Ground or VCC, it means the pin is connected to something internally. This method will check for faults or open circuit on the ribbon cable, and is completely safe and will not damage the console or require opening the case to diagnose.

 

If any pin on the VGA port that should be carrying a video signal is "floating" (0v to GND; 0v to VCC) then you have a fault in either the ribbon cable or the connection to the PCB. Otherwise, the cause could be a defective chip or logic on the motherboard, or an improperly wired video cable.

 

 

Maybe Analogue could have cleared this SNAFU by thoroughly testing the hardware, and selling the necessary cables directly through their website, so that anyone interested in utilizing the analog video outputs could bundle the necessary cable(s) with their purchase.

 

Actually I measured the values, did not remember exactly the values but I got similar values on Green and Blue. Red was significant higher, like 2x the voltage. (1.5v maybe)

 

And if I connected the Red into my TV the result was exactly the same as if was disconnected. The pin1 was not totaly dead, but the signal was... non existent?

[Altazimuth]

Idea: some have reported that the NT Mini is giving a valid signal, but of the incorrect type. Like for instance, Component YPbPr video over RGB cables. Perhaps a test firmware could be made for the NT Mini that allows the analog video type to be selected in the menu? Would allow for easier testing of the current issues.

 

This would be invaluable for myself, as I'm stuck with a defective unit, but given I'm in the UK I can't afford to ship it to America and back just to get it repaired. In my case, it thinks my Component YPbPr cables as Composite/S-vid, and none of my TVs accept the signal (I have to use my XRGB-mini). Here's an image of what it looks like when using the Component cables running through the XRGB-mini https://i.imgur.com/1DloQlt.png

 

I straight-up can't figure out what it thinks my Composite/S-vid cable is, as no TV I have, nor the XRGB-mini, will accept it.

 

I've tried all varieties of sync and standard, but have just had no luck getting it working properly.

[Jimjans]

 

This would be invaluable for myself, as I'm stuck with a defective unit, but given I'm in the UK I can't afford to ship it to America and back just to get it repaired. In my case, it thinks my Component YPbPr cables as Composite/S-vid, and none of my TVs accept the signal (I have to use my XRGB-mini). Here's an image of what it looks like when using the Component cables running through the XRGB-mini https://i.imgur.com/1DloQlt.png

 

I straight-up can't figure out what it thinks my Composite/S-vid cable is, as no TV I have, nor the XRGB-mini, will accept it.

 

I've tried all varieties of sync and standard, but have just had no luck getting it working properly.

And you have connected pin5 to ground when trying composite mode.