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#26 Gip-Gip OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:08 PM

Suggestion. 

Take a look at Starpath Escape From The Mindmaster in Stella's debug colors. 

I love the way it uses sliding diagonal missiles and/or ball set to the background (invisible) to smooth the tops and bottoms of the walls out. 

And a floating rectangle that enlarges the closer you get makes the "doors" to the "rooms".

 

I'll take a look into that. The way the display kernel works with the rest of the program may make this a little difficult to implement, as for some sections of the screen there is mild prep calculation (mostly just small ANDs and ORs to improve code efficiency), and I would probably have to move those calculations. There is also the fact that this engine is not designed to be a maze-only FP game, so you would have to make the illusion work for 2*X and 3*X hallways, among open rooms and the such.

 

 

Gip, did you make that Raycasting demo with the multi-colored Playfield I asked about here?

 

http://atariage.com/...demo/?p=3731023

 

Absolutely not. I do take it as a complement that you think I could've made that :)



#27 Gip-Gip OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Apr 2, 2017 1:55 PM

Cleaning up code and adding new features. How do you guys like this?

 

screenshot9.gif screenshot10.gif screenshot11.gif



#28 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Apr 2, 2017 2:07 PM

:thumbsup:

 

For larger corridors/walls (like in the left side of the 1st picture), alternating colors or shades would help.



#29 Gip-Gip OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Apr 2, 2017 2:44 PM

:thumbsup:

 

For larger corridors/walls (like in the left side of the 1st picture), alternating colors or shades would help.

 

Intresting idea. That would require quite a bit more code, but I'll try it.

 

Maybe just putting breaks between the walls?



#30 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Apr 2, 2017 2:47 PM

You are currently using only 3 out of 4 possible colors. Can you display dark and bright blue together?

 

Or maybe a floor or a ceiling?



#31 Gip-Gip OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Apr 2, 2017 2:52 PM

You are currently using only 3 out of 4 possible colors. Can you display dark and bright blue together?

 

Or maybe a floor or a ceiling?

 

The colors wouldn't be the problem, rather the whole rendering path ;-)



#32 iesposta OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Apr 2, 2017 5:00 PM

That looks great!

Find some time to use the Ball and Missile1 set to the "appropriate" color to do the "Mindmaster Smooth." :)

Doorways are made with the Player object, changing the width as you move closer.

 

Just suggestions.

 

Wow that means the background color is the walls and the Playfield is the ceiling, floor and side passages.

 

Escape from the Mindmaster (1 of 4) (1982) (Arcadia).png stella-debug-colors.gif

 

P.S. That chart should be built into Stella. Remind me to suggest that.



#33 Gip-Gip OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Apr 2, 2017 5:12 PM

That looks great!

Find some time to use the Ball and Missile1 set to the "appropriate" color to do the "Mindmaster Smooth." :)

Doorways are made with the Player object, changing the width as you move closer.

 

Just suggestions.

 

Wow that means the background color is the walls and the Playfield is the ceiling, floor and side passages.

 

attachicon.gifEscape from the Mindmaster (1 of 4) (1982) (Arcadia).png attachicon.gifstella-debug-colors.gif

 

P.S. That chart should be built into Stella. Remind me to suggest that.

 

I'll add wall smoothing after I'm finished sorting the code. I may also add smooth movement in the future, but I really don't want to waste the players on that (you couldn't make more than a maze game, and that's mundane and limiting)



#34 Gip-Gip OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Apr 2, 2017 8:28 PM

Version II.II.MMXVII is up! A bigger viewport has been added, and that's about it.



#35 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 3, 2017 5:46 AM

I'll add wall smoothing after I'm finished sorting the code. I may also add smooth movement in the future, but I really don't want to waste the players on that (you couldn't make more than a maze game, and that's mundane and limiting)

Smoothed walls are nice, that's for sure. But I agree, that not using the players will make the games much less restricted. And since players and missiles share the same color, the missiles cannot be used too (unless you want a monochrome look). So that only leaves the ball, but one single object is not sufficient or you have to use flicker.

 

BTW: II.II ? Not II.IV? :)



#36 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 3, 2017 5:47 AM

The colors wouldn't be the problem, rather the whole rendering path icon_winking.gif

What does that mean? No option or "just" a major refactoring of the rendering path?



#37 Gip-Gip OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 3, 2017 8:21 AM

What does that mean? No option or "just" a major refactoring of the rendering path?

 

In order to be more efficient I have only used 1 variable per wall, and 2 variables per shadow. That means you would have to add another variable to allow walls to take on the same shapes as shadows. Now this may not be difficult to implement, but it would take up another 20 bytes of RAM, plus the code to set and alternate the colors. I view it as kinda wasteful to get a small effect, but I may be wrong.



#38 Gip-Gip OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 3, 2017 8:26 AM

Smoothed walls are nice, that's for sure. But I agree, that not using the players will make the games much less restricted. And since players and missiles share the same color, the missiles cannot be used too (unless you want a monochrome look). So that only leaves the ball, but one single object is not sufficient or you have to use flicker.

 

BTW: II.II ? Not II.IV? :)

 

The draw code is already kinda crammed, and since you mentioned that I'm not so sure it's going to happen.

 

II.II.MMXVII is equal to  2.0.0 in your standard version. If I wanted to make it equal to 2.0.1, I would write II.II.MMXVII Rev. 1. If I wanted 2.1.1, II.III.MMXVII Rev. 1.


Edited by Gip-Gip, Mon Apr 3, 2017 8:31 AM.


#39 iesposta OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 3, 2017 8:51 AM

Smoothed walls are nice, that's for sure. But I agree, that not using the players will make the games much less restricted. And since players and missiles share the same color, the missiles cannot be used too (unless you want a monochrome look). So that only leaves the ball, but one single object is not sufficient or you have to use flicker.

 

BTW: II.II ? Not II.IV? :)

Thomas,

I think I understand.

Do you mean not using players will make games much MORE restricted? (Much less restrictions means you can do more.)

You are saying because this engine uses playfield for walls, the smoothing would have to be both missiles making invisible (black) P0 & P1?

Mindmaster is inverse, so the ball and one missile smooth leaving a free player and its missile?

 

Gip-Gip,

Would it be too much work to invert, making the walls background, and the ceiling, floor Playfield?

To me that seems like a more simple kernel, but again I don't know assembly so I can only ask and suggest. 

 

If too much work, continue on as you have. Amazing progress! (No pun intended)


Edited by iesposta, Mon Apr 3, 2017 8:53 AM.


#40 Gip-Gip OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 3, 2017 9:33 AM

Gip-Gip,

Would it be too much work to invert, making the walls background, and the ceiling, floor Playfield?

To me that seems like a more simple kernel, but again I don't know assembly so I can only ask and suggest. 

 

If too much work, continue on as you have. Amazing progress! (No pun intended)

 

It would (in theory) be simpler, but it would also mean you would lose (color) shaded walls. Plus, it would look kinda weird with the fact that PF0 isn't colored in, and the last PF2 is also mostly empty. It wouldn't take that long to add, but it would look uglier.



#41 Gip-Gip OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 3, 2017 9:35 AM

Thomas,

I think I understand.

Do you mean not using players will make games much MORE restricted? (Much less restrictions means you can do more.)

You are saying because this engine uses playfield for walls, the smoothing would have to be both missiles making invisible (black) P0 & P1?

Mindmaster is inverse, so the ball and one missile smooth leaving a free player and its missile?

 

This is not a maze renderer. You would also have to make the effect work for 2*X hallways and multiple hallways displayed at once.


Edited by Gip-Gip, Mon Apr 3, 2017 9:36 AM.


#42 iesposta OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 3, 2017 9:42 AM

 
It would (in theory) be simpler, but it would also mean you would lose (color) shaded walls. Plus, it would look kinda weird with the fact that PF0 isn't colored in, and the last PF2 is also mostly empty. It wouldn't take that long to add, but it would look uglier.

How so?
Background can change color every scan line just the same as playfield.
PF0 would be black just like PF1 & PF2.

#43 Gip-Gip OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 3, 2017 9:59 AM

How so?
Background can change color every scan line just the same as playfield.
PF0 would be black just like PF1 & PF2.

The background (our new shaded walls ) would be colored in PF0, while the normal walls wouldn't even touch it (unless you blanked the background, which would require precise timing and would be a general pain).



#44 Gip-Gip OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 3, 2017 11:19 AM

Since I'd like to make some games with this myself, the next update will hopefully include sprite support



#45 Jinroh OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 6, 2017 11:38 AM

Very awesome maze engine! :D Keep up the great work!

 

Something like 3-Demon to the VCS would be really cool.

 


Edited by Jinroh, Thu Apr 6, 2017 11:38 AM.


#46 Mr SQL OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 7, 2017 11:51 AM

Since I'd like to make some games with this myself, the next update will hopefully include sprite support

 

Awesome rendering engine Gip-Gip! Looking foward to seeing the games :)

 

One idea to add a second color could be to use bit variables; I've also used Nybbles to conserve RAM, helps to stretch it out.



#47 Gip-Gip OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:17 PM

It's been a long week of school, optimization and procrastination, but here's a screenshot for 'ya

 

screenshot18.gif

 

It's been a pain getting the instruction count down to fit in a good and simple sprite kernel, but overall I'm happy with the progress/results (not to mention I learned a lot trying to optimize this thing)

 

Expect a sprite kernel and size reduction next update



#48 CDS Games OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:16 PM

Very, very impressive!! I love how smoothly it works.

 

    Looking for ideas to make in the engine. I'm currently thinking of a zombie shooter and a Wolfenstein 3d "port", any other suggestions would be appreciated

 

Your half-screen versions would work well with a Bard's Tale style RPG. Your engine could be used to move through a dungeon, and then when you encounter a monster you can switch to a turn-based combat system in another bank. Might be a little less kernel-intensive than a first person shooter.

 

http://bardstale.pov...tale-story.html



#49 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:36 AM

How about Maze Craze in 3D (split screen)?



#50 Gip-Gip OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:23 PM

Finally got the sprite kernel working for the entire screen! Needs a ton of size optimization before I'm comfortable with giving the engine another release.

 

screenshot19.gif

 

All the game ideas sound great!







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