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The fail of NES hardware/gaming video from UK outlook


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#1 high voltage OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:33 PM

Why the NES failed in UK, he's spot on btw, except we were  already 16bit gaming by the time the NES arrived

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=yF5aYeV_SSc


Edited by high voltage, Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:44 PM.


#2 0078265317 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:23 PM

cool



#3 atarilovesyou OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:41 PM

Nice butthurt video from a butthurt who wasn't fortunate enough to live in North America (don't forget, Nintendo ruled in Canada as well) in the glorious period when the NES ruled and ruled supreme. 

 

The NES was the weapon of choice in America, Canada and Japan.  That it was not so in the UK just goes to show you how insignificant their contribution to global gaming was.  I'm sure you enjoyed your MSX versions of games that were much better on a C64, though.  And don't forget your Master Systems, ah yes, how could we forget the red-headed stepchild of the 80s, the Sega Master System. FAR more influential in the global reach of video games than the NES, as history has shown...ah, but wait.  It hasn't shown that.  Not in the least.  Oh, and the Amiga, such a great success in the UK...Commodore went on to bigger and better things, right?  Of course they didn't.  Again, no surprise: wasn't a hit in Japan OR North America.  But the British sure loved it. 

 

There is no controversy: the NES was instrumental in saving video games GLOBALLY because the money that Nintendo made was in the countries that mattered most during that time.  Who cares if you didn't like the NES or Nintendo's marketing policies?  Nobody, that's who. 

 

There were plenty of other fun options to be had in video gaming in the mid to late 80s but without Nintendo, global video gaming and gaming today wouldn't have turned out the same. Why this is such a difficult pill for those in the rest of the world to swallow is almost as baffling as it is uninteresting and inconsequential.  The facts are the facts.  Time to take off the top hat, stop being a jealous git and get on with it...like the rest of the world has.



#4 CatPix OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:52 PM

There is no controversy: the NES was instrumental in saving video games GLOBALLY

No controversity indeed. Video gaming had to be saved in North America ONLY. And that's even not totally true : CONSOLE video gaming had to be saved in North America only.

If Nintendo hadn't be there, Sega would have been. Or Commodore, or someone else.

Nintendo happened to make a right decision in investing money in a market that was ruined. They had issues getting a foothold in Europe because the market was flourishing and strong.


Edited by CatPix, Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:52 PM.


#5 Mulletino OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:58 PM

I'm sure you enjoyed your MSX versions of games that were much better on a C64, though

 

 

The MSX wasn't that popular in the UK, certainly nowhere near as popular as the C64, that was massive (and one of my all time favourite platforms) along with the ZX Spectrum and to a lesser extent the Amstrad (with a few bods having BBCs).



#6 high voltage OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:39 AM

 

 

The NES was the weapon of choice in America, Canada and Japan.  That it was not so in the UK just goes to show you how insignificant their contribution to global gaming was. 

Insignificant USA having to rely on 'Made in Japan'.

 

As for MSX, , you're confusing Europe with Asia, by the time Nintendo tried to invade Europe with old has been games, we had Atari ST and Commodore Amiga for beautiful 16bit gaming. USA behind the times as usual......back to 8-bit.


Edited by high voltage, Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:51 AM.


#7 spacecadet OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:18 AM

I'm an American who thinks Nintendo's effect on gaming has been massively overstated. There were plenty of people playing other stuff here while the NES was out; all the computers of the time, for example. Nintendo sold 34 million NES's in North America - that's a good number, but not an outsize number - the Xbox 360 sold 49 million units in NA and nobody even talks about it. The reason I think the NES gets romanticized so much is because it came right after the crash, but at some point Americans have to realize that the crash never really happened anywhere else, and even here it only lasted a year. It was a blip. It seemed bigger at the time than it was. Nintendo wasn't some courageous savior coming in to restart the global gaming industry, they were just releasing a game console.

 

Anyway I didn't quite make it through the video; I'm sure he makes good points, but I just wish he'd ditch the affectations, not to mention the 30 second intro.



#8 Austin OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:54 AM

Nintendo sold 34 million NES's in North America - that's a good number, but not an outsize number - the Xbox 360 sold 49 million units in NA and nobody even talks about it.

 
While I agree with some of your post, I don't think it's appropriate to compare the numbers like that on an apples-to-apples basis. The times were vastly different. Videogames were still taboo with many parents back then and it wasn't as common to see households with even a single game console. Now, videogames have established themselves as a mainstay in society. They have eclipsed music and film in annual sales--they are the new music and film. It's not uncommon for households to own at least one game console, and a device that they can play games on (a handheld game system, a smartphone or tablet). It's a far cry to how it was in the '80s, but I don't think that should undermine the success of consoles and companies in the '80s and the groundwork they laid--not just Nintendo, but Atari as well.
 

The reason I think the NES gets romanticized so much is because it came right after the crash

 
I guess it depends on where you are coming from. I was too young at the time to know there was a crash". For me, being someone who still plays the console regularly and speaks with individuals that do as well, I feel it gets romanticized because it still has an incredible amount of fun, challenging games that--not only were highly memorable back when they were new--but have aged gracefully as well. Tight controls, brisk gameplay, memorable music.. Adding in that it helped get console videogaming in North America back on its feet just seems like icing on the cake to me.
 

Insignificant USA having to rely on 'Made in Japan'.
 
As for MSX, , you're confusing Europe with Asia, by the time Nintendo tried to invade Europe with old has been games, we had Atari ST and Commodore Amiga for beautiful 16bit gaming. USA behind the times as usual......back to 8-bit.

 
Ah, beautiful 16-bit gaming, bound to a single button. I'm sure it was fantastic. :roll:



#9 zetastrike OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:16 AM

delete


Edited by zetastrike, Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:26 AM.


#10 zetastrike OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:25 AM

 
While I agree with some of your post, I don't think it's appropriate to compare the numbers like that on an apples-to-apples basis. The times were vastly different. Videogames were still taboo with many parents back then and it wasn't as common to see households with even a single game console. Now, videogames have established themselves as a mainstay in society. They have eclipsed music and film in annual sales--they are the new music and film. It's not uncommon for households to own at least one game console, and a device that they can play games on (a handheld game system, a smartphone or tablet). It's a far cry to how it was in the '80s, but I don't think that should undermine the success of consoles and companies in the '80s and the groundwork they laid--not just Nintendo, but Atari as well.
 

 
I guess it depends on where you are coming from. I was too young at the time to know there was a crash". For me, being someone who still plays the console regularly and speaks with individuals that do as well, I feel it gets romanticized because it still has an incredible amount of fun, challenging games that--not only were highly memorable back when they were new--but have aged gracefully as well. Tight controls, brisk gameplay, memorable music.. Adding in that it helped get console videogaming in North America back on its feet just seems like icing on the cake to me.
 

 
Ah, beautiful 16-bit gaming, bound to a single button. I'm sure it was fantastic. :roll:

 

People act like everyone stopped playing games entirely in 1983 and nintendo convinced everyone that games were still worth playing.  Gaming didn't disappear.  All a bunch of nonsense pushed by a bunch of people who were too young to remember gaming before 1986.  It does a disservice to arcade gaming, computer gaming, and Atari/Intellivision/Coleco.

 

All nintendo really did was bring their console over during an industry slump and remove consumer choice.  I don't think the majority of NES games have aged as well as what came before.  Too many frustrating and annoying side scrollers that start to blend together.

 

 

And Austin, your post is exactly what I'm talking about.  Overstated, nostalgia infused "importance".  And then you make a cheap shot at the Amiga.  That was far more important and relevant than the NES ever was in Europe.  The NES was just a console released during a slump, not some savior handed down on a golden plate by God.



#11 empsolo ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:54 AM

 

 

The MSX wasn't that popular in the UK, certainly nowhere near as popular as the C64, that was massive (and one of my all time favourite platforms) along with the ZX Spectrum and to a lesser extent the Amstrad (with a few bods having BBCs).

Except Both the ZX Spectrum and the CPC were trash computers. Computers that were considered to be laughable here in the US in terms of gaming or home use. I literally cringe at every single 8-bit Euro computer game that's shown on RetroCore's channel. Especially the ones that attempt basic sound or hardware scrolling. Even the C64 blows chunks to a lesser degree every time I hear the much vaunted and over hyped SID chip.

 

And don't get me started on the Amiga clinging on to 1 button joysticks up to the 32 bit era, Kek.


Edited by empsolo, Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:56 AM.


#12 Austin OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:56 AM

And Austin, your post is exactly what I'm talking about.  Overstated, nostalgia infused "importance".  And then you make a cheap shot at the Amiga.  That was far more important and relevant than the NES ever was in Europe.  The NES was just a console released during a slump, not some savior handed down on a golden plate by God.

 

What exactly is nostalgia infused about it if I hand a game like Castlevania, Super Mario Bros or Mega Man 2 over to someone younger that has never played them before, and they become enamored by them? I see that a testament to how well they have stood the test of time.

 

I don't feel my statement in regards to the Amiga was a cheap shot. It's a perfectly critical, objective observation that isn't relegated to just the Amiga, but several other computer platforms as well (Atari ST and Commodore 64, for instance).



#13 enoofu OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:59 AM

Amiga, Atari ST, and C64 were pretty powerful at the time

 

 

I'm an American who thinks Nintendo's effect on gaming has been massively overstated. There were plenty of people playing other stuff here while the NES was out; all the computers of the time, for example. Nintendo sold 34 million NES's in North America - that's a good number, but not an outsize number - the Xbox 360 sold 49 million units in NA and nobody even talks about it. The reason I think the NES gets romanticized so much is because it came right after the crash, but at some point Americans have to realize that the crash never really happened anywhere else, and even here it only lasted a year. It was a blip. It seemed bigger at the time than it was. Nintendo wasn't some courageous savior coming in to restart the global gaming industry, they were just releasing a game console.

 

Anyway I didn't quite make it through the video; I'm sure he makes good points, but I just wish he'd ditch the affectations, not to mention the 30 second intro.

Actually the slump was worldwide, just that it happen in Europe and Canada a lot sooner then North America and was far more lasting

 

No controversity indeed. Video gaming had to be saved in North America ONLY. And that's even not totally true : CONSOLE video gaming had to be saved in North America only.

If Nintendo hadn't be there, Sega would have been. Or Commodore, or someone else.

Nintendo happened to make a right decision in investing money in a market that was ruined. They had issues getting a foothold in Europe because the market was flourishing and strong.

Video game crash destroyed Taiwan, South Korea, and the UK (Especially Hong Kong) game industry almost permanently

Hong Kong and Taiwan alone had around 1/2 Billion of the US Market in 1983.

 

Europe gaming market was extreme weak was one of the main reasons of the North American Crash of 1983 as UK, though Hong Kong was importing vast amounts of American gaming pirated software and hardware into Europe starting around the late 1970's. Majority of US arcade Machines in Europe were Hong Kong knockoffs which forced US Arcade Makers to make more complicated machines to counter UK Piracy

Which had also the effect of making Arcade machines in the early 1980's more expensive, which put operator in dire straits around 1983.

 

Around 1981-1983 their was a extreme boom in the console with UK (mainly HK) and Taiwan knockouts in the console market in the US, which become outright Dumping, one of the reason why 3rd parties games for Atari games don't usually hold up as they are cheap Chinese knockoffs.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The reason the Crash was short lived in NA was because US, Japan and other countries basically barred/restricted UK, Taiwan, and South Korea gaming goods since it most likely pirated goods

 

Arcade industry adopting Jamma and other cheaper technologies to make Arcade machines more affordable and easier to maintain

 

Japan also was more protected then the rest of the world do to Pachinko Parlors

 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Doubtful Nintendo was very serious of going to the UK, as they would oflaunched the Fami Disk Drive if they were.

 

Plus with Japanese companies blaming the UK's Gaming industry directly of supporting Piracy and lobbing that internationally didn't help either



#14 Mayhem ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:15 AM

There isn't a huge amount to add, as the video and comments here cover much of it. The crash was a North America thing only. Japan was still heavily computer centric at the time, and Europe had mostly migrated that way with the launch of the Spectrum and C64 by the end of 1983. I should know, we sold our Atari 2600 prior to the end of that year, and got a C64 in the following Spring.

 

The best C64 titles come close to the best NES titles, but guess what? The best NES games come from Japan, and most of the best C64 games come from Europe. Nowhere is the US in the picture here. Hell, there wasn't even an American developed NES title released until Christmas 1988! Even British developers had games out on the NES before the Americans did. Also, guess what. Yes, the Speccy and C64 had plenty of crap on them, but strangely enough, so did the NES. With around 700 NES titles and 10k+ C64 titles though, it's a bit harder to sort the wheat from the chaff on the latter format...



#15 enoofu OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:45 AM

There isn't a huge amount to add, as the video and comments here cover much of it. The crash was a North America thing only. Japan was still heavily computer centric at the time, and Europe had mostly migrated that way with the launch of the Spectrum and C64 by the end of 1983. I should know, we sold our Atari 2600 prior to the end of that year, and got a C64 in the following Spring.

 

The best C64 titles come close to the best NES titles, but guess what? The best NES games come from Japan, and most of the best C64 games come from Europe. Nowhere is the US in the picture here. Hell, there wasn't even an American developed NES title released until Christmas 1988! Even British developers had games out on the NES before the Americans did. Also, guess what. Yes, the Speccy and C64 had plenty of crap on them, but strangely enough, so did the NES. With around 700 NES titles and 10k+ C64 titles though, it's a bit harder to sort the wheat from the chaff on the latter format...

Quite a few games where developed by Americans for the NES before 1988 such as Raid on Bungeling Bay

 

"most of the best C64 games come from Europe", Don't believe this Statement is totally correct



#16 toptenmaterial OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:13 AM

I see a lot of emphasis placed on the crash here. I was born in 1980 and bought an NES in 1988 (my sister and I each saved 3 dollars a week). Before that we had the IBM PC and my friend Brad's father down the street had a 7800. I grew up with video games. The point is that I only became aware of the crash around 2006 or so while digging through the internet, which makes me wonder if it has been exaggerated and turned to into legend as things on the internet are wont to do.

Companies did fold or at least change, that's for sure. But some of these parent companies like WB were systematically ill anyway. Reading online, you'd get the impression that Americans stopped playing video games, and for a brief, flowering period in 1984, all the kiddies were outside building tree houses and playing tag! It must have been beautiful.

With the exception of people who read the money section of their newspaper, I highly doubt anyone noticed or gave a rat's ass. There continued to be an abundance of games, though some were probably a lot cheaper.

The market would have been rebuilt if Nintendo didn't come around. But Nintendo probably did give it a big shot in the arm with it's awesome games that kids could identify with and also stripped down and easy to use controllers. Those were innovations that came from the crash.

#17 Zonie OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:18 AM

I never had a NES. By 1982 I was using a VIC-20 then a C64. I think a lot of folks just switched to 8 bit computers at that time. Sure, there were a lot of junk games on the market for the VCS, but I really think home computers were what really led to the slump in consoles. Atari didn't help by selling a neutered 400 as the 5200. I said then and say now, they should have just revised the 400 and lowered the price instead of releasing the 5200.

 

I borrowed a NES in the late 80's from a friend who wanted to pay me for some electrical work with it and I just didn't enjoy the games. I'm not a side scroller plarform fan...


Edited by Zonie, Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:18 AM.


#18 toptenmaterial OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:06 AM

Side note: did the 2600 and similar systems really have more crap games than the NES? I love NES and there are heaps of gold in that library, but let's be honest, there was a ton of crap too. That seal of approval was heavily abused. The conclusion that I draw from this is that the quality and novelty of the good games (Mario, Zelda, many many more) exceeded that of prior generations.

#19 high voltage OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:08 AM

 
While I agree with some of your post, I don't think it's appropriate to compare the numbers like that on an apples-to-apples basis. The times were vastly different. Videogames were still taboo with many parents back then and it wasn't as common to see households with even a single game console. Now, videogames have established themselves as a mainstay in society. They have eclipsed music and film in annual sales--they are the new music and film. It's not uncommon for households to own at least one game console, and a device that they can play games on (a handheld game system, a smartphone or tablet). It's a far cry to how it was in the '80s, but I don't think that should undermine the success of consoles and companies in the '80s and the groundwork they laid--not just Nintendo, but Atari as well.
 

 
I guess it depends on where you are coming from. I was too young at the time to know there was a crash". For me, being someone who still plays the console regularly and speaks with individuals that do as well, I feel it gets romanticized because it still has an incredible amount of fun, challenging games that--not only were highly memorable back when they were new--but have aged gracefully as well. Tight controls, brisk gameplay, memorable music.. Adding in that it helped get console videogaming in North America back on its feet just seems like icing on the cake to me.
 

 
Ah, beautiful 16-bit gaming, bound to a single button. I'm sure it was fantastic. :roll:

Single button, I don't think so

 

Starglider%20keyboard%20layout.jpg



#20 mbd30 ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:12 AM

Side note: did the 2600 and similar systems really have more crap games than the NES?

 

Oh yeah, there were plenty of crap games on the NES.

 

At least the high profile games were _good_ unlike Atari's lame rush jobs. There were no colossal disappointments along the lines of ET and Pac-Man.


Edited by mbd30, Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:12 AM.


#21 mbd30 ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:16 AM

Insignificant USA having to rely on 'Made in Japan'.

 

As for MSX, , you're confusing Europe with Asia, by the time Nintendo tried to invade Europe with old has been games, we had Atari ST and Commodore Amiga for beautiful 16bit gaming. USA behind the times as usual......back to 8-bit.

 

Why did the Master System continue to do so well in Europe if everybody had moved on to 16-bit? Didn't 8-bit computers such as the Spectrum and Commodore 64 continue to be popular as well? It's not like everyone could afford an Amiga. The NES was probably just poorly marketed.



#22 toptenmaterial OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:40 AM

 
Why did the Master System continue to do so well in Europe if everybody had moved on to 16-bit? Didn't 8-bit computers such as the Spectrum and Commodore 64 continue to be popular as well? It's not like everyone could afford an Amiga. The NES was probably just poorly marketed.


And to that effect, I think that Nintendo was a much smaller company then, and decided to go all in with their US strategy. Because of the vacuum, they were able to dominate retail space and get the third parties by the balls. I don't know whether or not that would have worked in Europe, but it was a success in America.

#23 CatPix OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:12 PM

There are several reasons.

One main reasons was that before 1990, like Sega did in the US, in Europe, sales of the NES were handled to several companies, the most important ones being Bandai and Mattel (Mattel being PAL A and Bandai being PAL B).

In some countries, no one cared and the NES wasn't sold before 1990 when Nintendo took over Mattel and Bandai.

Also, in the early times, due to multilingual market needing to print several versions, different censorship, etc... Nintendo didn't pushed hard to sell in Europe.

They also dumped their unsold stuff in Europe, not helping to develop a strong incentive to buy it.

For exampel, the first NES imported in France was ASD. When ASD applied to import Nintendo consoles in France, Nintendo provided ASD with ONLY the ROB Deluxe set, putting the NES at absurdly high prices for the market and pushing ASD bankrupt in under a year.

Sega on the other hand had cheaper consoles, and had almost no region locking, so import shops could provide several unreleased games for the joy of gamers. This wasn't a new thing either, many MSX games were imported from Japan.

As for the 16 bits market, the high price and more complex hardware meant that unlike the 8 bits systems, they were too expensive and fragile for kids. An Amiga 500 in France was sold roughly for the equivalent of a month of minimal wage salary. A NEs or Master system sold for 2/5 of that price. Gamers that grew on the 8 bits computer frowned upon the NES and the Master system, but the generation that grew in the late 80's grew with it only. So depending on whether you talk to someone born in Europe in the early 80's or late 70 or someone born in the late 80's, he'll have a very different opinion on the computer VS console topic.



#24 Mayhem ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:08 PM

Quite a few games where developed by Americans for the NES before 1988 such as Raid on Bungeling Bay

 

"most of the best C64 games come from Europe", Don't believe this Statement is totally correct

 

To cover the latter first, it's a matter of personal opinion sure, but seeing as I reckon I've played well over 3000 C64 titles in my lifetime, I would consider myself reasonably well informed!

 

As for the former, nope, all programmed in Japan. Even titles such as Lode Runner, Pitfall, Bungeling Bay, Spelunker etc, the NES/Famicom version was written in the Land of the Rising Sun. The first American developed title released for the NES was Paperboy, which came out (disputed) either December 1988 or January 1989.



#25 Downland1983 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:14 PM

 

 

The MSX wasn't that popular in the UK, certainly nowhere near as popular as the C64, that was massive (and one of my all time favourite platforms) along with the ZX Spectrum and to a lesser extent the Amstrad (with a few bods having BBCs).

 

No offense, but I don't know how the Speccy caught on anywhere with that color palette (regardless of price point), especially where the color of your character changes with each background you pass through.  It would have been jarring to me to play a game like that.  Maybe, it's because I didn't experience it 1st hand back in the day. 






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