Atarikid96 Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Which model has the best picture/sound quality in your opinion? A 2600 jr, or, say, a 2600 Vader model? With and/or without av mods? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SpiceWare Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Vader's not the Original VCS, it's fourth in line (discounting the promotional model): Heavy Sixer Light Sixer 4-Switch Vader Junior One thing to note about the Junior - we've been experimenting with Bus Stuffing, which lets the 2600 generate displays like this: it works great on all 2600s except the Junior, where it fails about 40% of the time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrekMD Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Those are some pretty impressive graphics with Bus Stuffing. Any idea why the Jr fails 40% of the time at generating them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SpiceWare Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Those are some pretty impressive graphics with Bus Stuffing. Any idea why the Jr fails 40% of the time at generating them? Hardware differences. Not sure of the specifics as I'm not a hardware guy. In the current driver the 6507 puts out 1s which the ARM overrides with 0s, ZackAttack's been doing experiments where the 6507 puts out 0s and having the ARM override with 1s. Some of the juniors that failed with the original method work with this, but not all, plus other systems that worked with the original method don't work with the new one. In the meantime, cd-w and I came up with a new bankswitching scheme called CDF that takes what we learned while creating the BUS Stuffing driver and merged it with the Fast Fetchers from DPC+. More detail about CDF can be found in this blog entry about rebooting Draconian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOX2600 Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 That's amazing! I love my 4-switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 (edited) Hardware differences. Not sure of the specifics as I'm not a hardware guy. In the current driver the 6507 puts out 1s which the ARM overrides with 0s, ZackAttack's been doing experiments where the 6507 puts out 0s and having the ARM override with 1s. Some of the juniors that failed with the original method work with this, but not all, plus other systems that worked with the original method don't work with the new one. Wonder if there is something in common with the ones that fail, like a certain mfg of the chips. Or perhaps it is a revision of the mainboard? Or maybe before/after a certain datecode, all chips fail, because of a specification change? Maybe it even has to to with the cleanliness of the board and cartridge slot and its surrounding area? Maybe even power supplies are an issue, both internal regulator and the external wall wart. All these are things to check. Would be telling to put them on a logic analyzer AND a scope. See exactly how much current and time is required to stuff a low or a high. See if anything is sloppy. See if the ARM processor can sink or source the necessary current. Edited March 26, 2017 by Keatah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SpiceWare Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 That's amazing! I love my 4-switch. All those demos are available here, though right now you must use a Harmony Cart to try them. If you don't have one then monitor this topic for the pre6 test build of Stella as I've recently added preliminary support to Stella. I'm partial to the sixer, in part because we had one, and in part because the difficulty switches are much easer to use than the 4-switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOX2600 Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 the difficulty switches are much easer to use than the 4-switch. I would definitely agree with that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atarikid96 Posted March 27, 2017 Author Share Posted March 27, 2017 Those graphics are crazy good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maiki Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 it works great on all 2600s except the Junior, where it fails about 40% of the time. It was only NTSC Jrs that failed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassGuitari Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 And what, pray tell, are we looking at here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AW127 Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 I get my Atari Vader-model and some years later my girl-cousin get her Atari Jr. When i first saw it, i thought "looks good", but when i then had a deeper look i thought "hm, seems like its built not so valuable" and when i then saw bad joysticks that come with it, i was finally happy to have my vader model. And still i like the Vader-models the most. Maybe because i am used to it and it never break and still works like a charm since all these years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SpiceWare Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 And what, pray tell, are we looking at here? That's a tile based RPG demo, available here. You can run around the kingdom, collect coins, and buy things at the store. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Is the Jr issue with bus stuffing solvable by using less columns of "tiles"? I mean, is it an issue with reliably pushing that much information. It can't handle changing colors per line that fast? That kind of thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SpiceWare Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Is the Jr issue with bus stuffing solvable by using less columns of "tiles"? I mean, is it an issue with reliably pushing that much information. It can't handle changing colors per line that fast? That kind of thing? no, this test program only stuffs the bus a single time per scanline. KernelLoop: sta WSYNC sta HMOVE sty PF1 <----- only BUS STUFF in the test program lda Digits,x sta GRP0 sta GRP1 SLEEP 20 sta HMP0 sta HMP1 inx cpx #193 bne KernelLoop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassGuitari Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 That's a tile based RPG demo, available here. You can run around the kingdom, collect coins, and buy things at the store. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SpiceWare Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 It was a group effort - cd-w came up with the tile kernel while I wrapped it up in a pretty package 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Vader's not the Original VCS, it's fourth in line (discounting the promotional model): Heavy Sixer Light Sixer 4-Switch Vader Junior One thing to note about the Junior - we've been experimenting with Bus Stuffing, which lets the 2600 generate displays like this: Looks like Ultima, on a 2600?!? *head explodes* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Stella Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Looks like Ultima, on a 2600?!? *head explodes* Yesssssssss. Head. explodes. indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SpiceWare Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Looks like Ultima, on a 2600?!? *head explodes* Yesssssssss. Head. explodes. indeed. Harmony's no longer required - the 5.0.0-pre6 test build of Stella was made public yesterday. You'll want to turn on phosphor mode for the RPG and 128 pixel demos as they make use of 30 Hz flicker. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassGuitari Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Looks like Ultima, on a 2600?!? *head explodes* Yesssssssss. Head. explodes. indeed. Screen Shot 2017-03-28 at 1.06.41 PM.png Screen Shot 2017-03-28 at 1.06.56 PM.png Screen Shot 2017-03-28 at 1.07.09 PM.png Screen Shot 2017-03-28 at 1.07.19 PM.png Screen Shot 2017-03-28 at 1.10.32 PM.png Screen Shot 2017-03-28 at 1.10.46 PM.png ...And my head has now been gibbed as well. Please tell me that isn't a prototype of a Galaga clone. That can't exist, right? My face can only melt so much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SpiceWare Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Please tell me that isn't a prototype of a Galaga clone. That can't exist, right? My face can only melt so much! Just a bitmap display to see what it would look like. There's moving sprite examples in the demo that reveal some shortcomings of using the 128 pixel display for fast moving objects. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AW127 Posted April 2, 2017 Share Posted April 2, 2017 Would be interesting to know, if there is also an example of a program, that only works on a Junior model and not on the others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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