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Getting A8 Online with Lantronix and 850 Interface


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#1 Paul Westphal OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:43 AM

Ok guys. I have most of the hardware.image.jpeg mostly, is there detailed instructions on how this is accomplished with a PC? I do have a SIO to PC coming also, and I'm downloading APE from Atarimax. I'm really looking forward to this, as Joe Deciur wants to eventually do blue tooth or some sort of wireless, and this is a good start for me to get re-familiarized with the process. Any help with this is already appreciated.

Regards,

Paul

#2 Tempest ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:58 AM

I think there were some instructions in the thread I started, but that thread went all over the place.  A nice condensed set of instructions wouldn't be a bad thing.



#3 Tillek OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:04 PM

I think there were some instructions in the thread I started, but that thread went all over the place.  A nice condensed set of instructions wouldn't be a bad thing.

The only problem is that when you ask a question like that on a public forum like this, you're going to get the 101 different opinions.  This is x1000 if you ask on FaceBook.  (Like the guy who posted a picture of an X-Former cable and despite me and another guy quickly answering what it was and providing links to further details and the guy confirming from the pinouts provided in the links that it was indeed an X-Former cable... The insanity of the idiocy of the answers the continued to pour in were staggering and nearly made me lose all hope in the future of humanity).

 

And Paul, there are no "detailed instructions on how this is accomplished with a PC".  The whole point of having a Lantronix box is that you DON'T have a PC involved in the process (except perhaps to use the web configuration menu for the device instead of the terminal one).  You have everything you need (assuming you do have the modem cable laying around and a term program on disk already).

 

In fact, if you were going to use SIO2PC with Ape, you didn't need the Lantronix at all.

 

So if you want to keep this short and to the point, you should tell us whether you want to set up with the Lantronix for calling BBS's (and no PC is involved once the Lantronix is set up) or whether you want to go the APE route.  Either way is good.  Either way will work.  It's just a personal preference thing of whether you want to be tied to a PC when calling BBS's.

 

Otherwise this is going to get convoluted.



#4 Timothy Kline OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:27 PM

In fact, if you were going to use SIO2PC with Ape, you didn't need the Lantronix at all.

 

So if you want to keep this short and to the point, you should tell us whether you want to set up with the Lantronix for calling BBS's (and no PC is involved once the Lantronix is set up) or whether you want to go the APE route.  Either way is good.  Either way will work.  It's just a personal preference thing of whether you want to be tied to a PC when calling BBS's.

 

Otherwise this is going to get convoluted.

 

What are the advantages and disadvantages between going the APE route vs Lantronix? Is one better suited for operating a BBS (which is what I have in mind)?

 

Thank you, Paul, for starting the discussion! I'm watching this topic with interest! :)

 

Thank you, in advance!

--Tim



#5 Kyle22 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:09 PM

 

What are the advantages and disadvantages between going the APE route vs Lantronix? Is one better suited for operating a BBS (which is what I have in mind)?

 

Thank you, Paul, for starting the discussion! I'm watching this topic with interest! :)

 

Thank you, in advance!

--Tim

 

I'm working on getting a BBS set up. I use a LANTronix UDS-10.



#6 ProWizard OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:41 PM

I had slightly better results with the Lantronix MSS 100. That one requires a nullmodem cable though in stead.

 

MSS 100 -> DNS support is there. So you can call out using a domain name which is more handy than always having to call out using an IP address

 

MSS 100 seems to have a better telnet handshake. 

 

Some BBS I call out with the Uds10 have the annoying double echo issue (just like you might get with a RAW connection). This is a Telnet Handshake NAK. I did not experience that issue using the MSS 100.

 

I heard/read some rumours about an UDS 10 firmware update which will give it DNS support, but I might be wrong about that.



#7 Kyle22 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:51 PM

. . . I heard/read some rumours about an UDS 10 firmware update which will give it DNS support, but I might be wrong about that.

 

I have also heard them, and have been searching and searching, but no luck yet.



#8 Tillek OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:04 PM

 

What are the advantages and disadvantages between going the APE route vs Lantronix? Is one better suited for operating a BBS (which is what I have in mind)?

 

Thank you, Paul, for starting the discussion! I'm watching this topic with interest! :)

 

Thank you, in advance!

--Tim

Short version:  The Lantronix acts like a modem.  It hooks directly into your router/hub on one end, and the computer (through MIO, 850, PR: Connection, whatever) on the other.  No pc is involved (except maybe to configure the box).  You will need the Lantronix box, the cable, the interface (MIO, 850, PR: Connection, and I believe there is a way to use the SIO2PC as an interface but someone else will have to talk about that) and your terminal software..

 

APE is Ape.  You need the SIO2PC, you need the APE software, you need the PC to talk to, you need your terminal software.

 

People will probably respond with lots of their opinions, but in fact it boils down to.... Do you want to have to go through your PC?  Do you already own an SIO2PC and already have APE?  Do you already have an 850 with cable and a Lantronix box?  The primary decision should probably be based on what you have and what it will cost to get what you need.  Also, if you plan to use your SIO2PC anyway for storage, may as well just use it to solve the online problem too and not spend the money on the rest of it.

 

As far as running a BBS... same considerations.



#9 TheMontezuma OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:16 AM

I had slightly better results with the Lantronix MSS 100. That one requires a nullmodem cable though in stead.

 

MSS 100 -> DNS support is there. So you can call out using a domain name which is more handy than always having to call out using an IP address

 

MSS 100 seems to have a better telnet handshake. 

 

Some BBS I call out with the Uds10 have the annoying double echo issue (just like you might get with a RAW connection). This is a Telnet Handshake NAK. I did not experience that issue using the MSS 100.

 

I heard/read some rumours about an UDS 10 firmware update which will give it DNS support, but I might be wrong about that.

 

This sounds interesting for me. I thought Lantronix UDS-10 acts as a Telnet Client, but I understand from your description that it doesn't.

It only establishes a raw socket connection to the telnet server and passes everything (including Telnet negotiation control bytes) to the ATARI.

Is this correct?

 

I wondered if you could name a few BBSs using Telnet negotations, so I could perform some testing.

 

The ATARI Terminal software (like ICE-T) supports specific terminal types (for example VT100, VT-102, ANSI-BBS).

I wondered what is a common base with NVT (Network Virtual Terminal) which is a terminal type assumed by Telnet.

Would it be enough to refuse all requests from the Telnet Server (and this way tell the Server that we support only NVT without any extra features) to properly display and control BBS pages? Or the Telnet client would need to do translations (from NVT to VT100 for example)?



#10 DrVenkman ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:19 PM

So I just realized last night that my ICD P:R: Connection might actually be useful for something like this. I've had it for years; came in a giant lot with an 800, an 825 Printer and a bunch of other stuff well over a decade ago. I've never actually used it, but now I'm itching to try. What sort of Lantronix box do I need to look for?



#11 Tillek OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:58 PM

http://atariage.com/...t-a-phone-line/

 

That is the thread, not even two weeks old, where we discussed this already.

 

The reason I bring it up....

 

1) This was supposed to be about one guy asking a specific question.  He even had the courtesy to show us what he already had and what he had on the way.  (So why would people really tell him to go out and buy more stuff when he just wants to set up what he has?)

 

2) I won't speak for the other participants, but I'm really not looking forward to repeat the answers to literally the same questions (which have also been asked and answered in the BBS thread (though I'll give you that it's a little cluttered))..

 

You're all doing yourself a disservice by not looking at the information already posted there.  People took time to write good responses and I'm sure nothing has changed significantly since the 17th.

 

As for answering that specific question, I'm still waiting for Paul to decide Lantronix or wait for his APE to come in.



#12 DrVenkman ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:26 PM

http://atariage.com/...t-a-phone-line/

 

That is the thread, not even two weeks old, where we discussed this already.

 

 

 

 

This forum has roughly 15 years worth of accumulated Atari knowledge. Unless it's a question about a current or recent hardware hack or recent software project, there is literally NOTHING that hasn't been discussed before - often multiple times. Truth be told, I had seen and scanned through the thread a couple weeks ago but at the time I didn't recall I had the P:R: Connection at all, let alone realize it could be used for this kind of thing. And frankly, I was conflating the prior thread with Paul's more recent one, that's how much attention I had paid the earlier one.

 

EDITED FOR TYPOS.


Edited by DrVenkman, Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:55 PM.


#13 Tempest ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:55 PM


2) I won't speak for the other participants, but I'm really not looking forward to repeat the answers to literally the same questions (which have also been asked and answered in the BBS thread (though I'll give you that it's a little cluttered))..

 

You're all doing yourself a disservice by not looking at the information already posted there.  People took time to write good responses and I'm sure nothing has changed significantly since the 17th.

 

 

Don't be *that* guy.



#14 Tillek OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:56 PM

First, please don't think that was directed solely at you or anyone.

Also, please don't think I was trying to just be one of those people who tell people they should search the forums first to try to find the 5 year old topic.

I just wanted to point it out because it was only a short time ago when these exact same things were asked and discussed and unless the posters intend to go cut and paste the same responses, you might miss something.... so I provided a link.

To answer your question, all things being equal (you don't already have one or you can't find one or the other at a reasonable price) the mss-100 is better. The main reason is it will allow atdt bbs.domain.com:port instead of having to find the ip address.

You will need the terminal cable from myatari (or a null adapter) and a gender changer for the mss-100. The uds-10 uses the regular 850/pr modem cable.

There are a lot of caveats and options, but that's the tldr;

#15 Kyle22 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:46 PM

@Tillek:

 

Yeah the MSS is better for calling out because of DNS resolution, but do you know if MSS or UDS is preferable for BBS use (or are they equivalent for this use)?



#16 Tempest ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:17 AM

First, please don't think that was directed solely at you or anyone.

Also, please don't think I was trying to just be one of those people who tell people they should search the forums first to try to find the 5 year old topic.

I just wanted to point it out because it was only a short time ago when these exact same things were asked and discussed and unless the posters intend to go cut and paste the same responses, you might miss something.... so I provided a link.

 

Sorry to be *that other guy*, but we've had a rash of people suddenly deciding that if there was ever a thread on a topic then it can never be discussed again outside that thread.  I've been on boards that are like that and they annoy me to no end.   "We discussed that 15 years ago.  Use the search function next time n00b.  Closing thread!"  Ugh.

 

 

To answer your question, all things being equal (you don't already have one or you can't find one or the other at a reasonable price) the mss-100 is better. The main reason is it will allow atdt bbs.domain.com:port instead of having to find the ip address.

You will need the terminal cable from myatari (or a null adapter) and a gender changer for the mss-100. The uds-10 uses the regular 850/pr modem cable.

 

 

And that's the most important info out of all of this I think.



#17 DrVenkman ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:21 PM

To answer your question, all things being equal (you don't already have one or you can't find one or the other at a reasonable price) the mss-100 is better. The main reason is it will allow atdt bbs.domain.com:port instead of having to find the ip address.

You will need the terminal cable from myatari (or a null adapter) and a gender changer for the mss-100. The uds-10 uses the regular 850/pr modem cable.

There are a lot of caveats and options, but that's the tldr;

 

Thanks for the "Cliff's Notes" version. It is very much appreciated. I went to eBay today and found a seller dropping surplus MSS100 units for about $35 shipped so I bought one, along with a null modem DB9-DB25 serial cable. I had to pick up a DB9 gender changer for the P:R: Connection as well but it was only $2.49 (could've been $0.99 but coming from China would take a month. Nope!). 



#18 w1k OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 3, 2017 9:29 AM

my MSS100 arrived today.. whats next? is better reduction SERIAL-RS232 or cable?



#19 DrVenkman ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 3, 2017 5:18 PM

Coincidentally, my MSS100 arrived today too, although sans power supply.  Anyone have a suggestion for a cheap +5VDC power supply? :)



#20 Tillek OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 3, 2017 5:57 PM

 

Thanks for the "Cliff's Notes" version. It is very much appreciated. I went to eBay today and found a seller dropping surplus MSS100 units for about $35 shipped so I bought one, along with a null modem DB9-DB25 serial cable. I had to pick up a DB9 gender changer for the P:R: Connection as well but it was only $2.49 (could've been $0.99 but coming from China would take a month. Nope!). 

Sorry... work was really busy so I didn't get a chance to get back on and really sit down and take care of things...

 

At any rate, when I said you needed a terminal cable from MyAtari, remember that the P:R: does not use a standard 9-pin Rs232 pinout. If what you have is a regular 9-25 null modem cable it won't work.    You'll either need the terminal cable for the P:R:/850 or you'll need the modem cable for the P:R:/850 with a null adapter (on the DB25 end).  The gender changer is also for the DB25 end (unless the null adapter includes it).



#21 Tillek OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 3, 2017 5:59 PM

@Tillek:

 

Yeah the MSS is better for calling out because of DNS resolution, but do you know if MSS or UDS is preferable for BBS use (or are they equivalent for this use)?

I can't say I've noticed a difference.  If anything, I'd say the UDS has been more stable, but then again, SFHQ has a lot more activity coming in and out than my Carina setup (which is actually down right now).



#22 Brentarian ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 3, 2017 6:00 PM

Coincidentally, my MSS100 arrived today too, although sans power supply.  Anyone have a suggestion for a cheap +5VDC power supply? :)


If you have an old Linksys/Netgear router laying around, usually the power supply is +5VDC and 2A.

#23 DrVenkman ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 3, 2017 6:29 PM

Sorry... work was really busy so I didn't get a chance to get back on and really sit down and take care of things...

 

At any rate, when I said you needed a terminal cable from MyAtari, remember that the P:R: does not use a standard 9-pin Rs232 pinout. If what you have is a regular 9-25 null modem cable it won't work.    You'll either need the terminal cable for the P:R:/850 or you'll need the modem cable for the P:R:/850 with a null adapter (on the DB25 end).  The gender changer is also for the DB25 end (unless the null adapter includes it).

 

Thanks for the info.

 

According to the P:R: Connection manual, the R1 port on the P:R:C matches port 1 of the 850. If I may ask, what way does that vary from the standard 9-pin RS-232 pinout? It's been so very long since I've messed with physical serial ports I've long since forgotten what little I once knew (which wasn't all that much to begin with).

 

I guess either way I'll have to order a different cable. No big deal. So if you will indulge me, let me outline where I think I stand. The DB9's on the P:R:C are female, the DB25 on the Lantronix is male. The Atari Terminal cable is DB9-DB25 with male on both ends, so I'll also need a DB25 f-f gender changer for the Lantronix end. So with those two pieces (Terminal cable and gender changer) I should be good to go, correct?

 

Assuming I can get the Lantronix IP configured, of course - a bridge I will burn when I get to it! :) 

 

 

If you have an old Linksys/Netgear router laying around, usually the power supply is +5VDC and 2A.

 

I dug around but I think I tossed my old wall warts a year or so ago in a fit of e-recycling. Found one online for about $6.50. Thanks for the suggestion though. 



#24 Kyle22 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 3, 2017 6:36 PM

If you have an old Linksys/Netgear router laying around, usually the power supply is +5VDC and 2A.

NO! NO! NO!

 

The WRT54G v.1 is 5V

Newer WRT54G's are 12V!

 

I watched the salesman at a used computer type store plug a 12V supply into a Version 1 router.  The one I wanted to buy. The only one they had literally went up in smoke before I could stop him.  I wanted the V.1 because they have a mini-PCI card slot, and the wireless card may be replaced with an 802.11n one.

 

Please look at Linksys power supplies before using.


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#25 Tillek OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 3, 2017 6:40 PM

Coincidentally, my MSS100 arrived today too, although sans power supply.  Anyone have a suggestion for a cheap +5VDC power supply? :)

Lately, I try my local Goodwill (if you have one).  The one by my place tends to restock electronics on Friday and they have the box-o-cables (and power supplies).  $1.00 each.  Well, except those big expensive high-quality monster cables.... those go for about $3.00.  I like to grab square LCD monitors too (some work very well with the Ataris).






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