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wifi 802.11 ESP32 PBI Project

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#101 flashjazzcat OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:37 PM

No rush, I won't have any time to poke at this until late next week at the soonest.  Glad it turned out to be fairly obvious at least!

 

No problem. ICHIDZ ($20) contains an index rather than an address, so presumably what he means is checking the first character of the string at ICBALZ/ICBAHZ ($24/25). Anyway: I've added that check and will PM it across for testing when you get time. ;)



#102 AtariGeezer OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:36 PM

Thanks for this thread.  I know nothing at all about the PBI and only a little about CPLDs so I only understand a very small portion of the details, but I am very much enjoying following along on the saga!

Same here,  love learning new things.  Hope to one day start designing/building new projects,  some even from dreams...

For the past 5 days I've been reversing the pics that Mr. Atari was gracious to post of the 1450XL's Parallel Disk Drive Controller into a readable schematic.  Seeing how that connects to the internal Parallel Bus is amazing...

 

Back to the topic ;)



#103 Dropcheck ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:27 PM

Same here,  love learning new things.  Hope to one day start designing/building new projects,  some even from dreams...

For the past 5 days I've been reversing the pics that Mr. Atari was gracious to post of the 1450XL's Parallel Disk Drive Controller into a readable schematic.  Seeing how that connects to the internal Parallel Bus is amazing...

 

Back to the topic ;)

 

I think some people would pay for those schematics.  ;-)   Even if there was an error or two.  I took one look at the wire wrap and knew I would never wire wrap more than four wires ever.  A lot of people swear by wire-wraping.  A lot more swear at them, me included.  :-D



#104 AtariGeezer OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:35 PM

 

I think some people would pay for those schematics.  ;-)   Even if there was an error or two.  I took one look at the wire wrap and knew I would never wire wrap more than four wires ever.  A lot of people swear by wire-wraping.  A lot more swear at them, me included.  :-D

Not to worry,  I do plan on posting it soon in a new topic: "Need Help with 1450XL Parallel Disk Drive Schematic" as my eyes don't see so good with some wires too close together :)   The Hand Drawn schematics of the 1450XL Tong mobo do fill in some gaps, but not all...



#105 Dropcheck ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:31 PM

Just saw this on another site.  Wonder if once you have the wireless nailed down, it might be possible to add wired connection too.  Hey, I want my cake and to eat it too.  :)

 

Still.....   Keep up the work regardless.   :thumbsup:



#106 TangentAudio OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:40 PM

Just saw this on another site.  Wonder if once you have the wireless nailed down, it might be possible to add wired connection too.  Hey, I want my cake and to eat it too.  :)

 

Still.....   Keep up the work regardless.   :thumbsup:

 

It's definitely crossed my mind, I've been aware that the ESP32 had support for wired ethernet.



#107 TangentAudio OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:45 PM

 

No problem. ICHIDZ ($20) contains an index rather than an address, so presumably what he means is checking the first character of the string at ICBALZ/ICBAHZ ($24/25). Anyway: I've added that check and will PM it across for testing when you get time. ;)

 

I was trying to puzzle my way through that last night with the OS reference and Mapping Atari and was wondering what it was indexing.  :thumbsup:



#108 _The Doctor__ ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:34 PM

Looks like collaboration as suggested is a success.. as we go along and weed out what got in the way of what and how it was fixed it would serve us well to have the PBI device success list, what has been fixed and why it should be in the checklist to prevent a fail in the future, and devices that need patching or fixing and why... like the Black box taking all the id's etc... 

 

nice catch indeed! FJC quick to help and quick to work! +1


Edited by _The Doctor__, Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:35 PM.


#109 TangentAudio OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:44 PM

Looks like collaboration as suggested is a success.. as we go along and weed out what got in the way of what and how it was fixed it would serve us well to have the PBI device success list, what has been fixed and why it should be in the checklist to prevent a fail in the future, and devices that need patching or fixing and why... like the Black box taking all the id's etc... 

 

nice catch indeed! FJC quick to help and quick to work! +1

 

It would be really nice to end up with a modern and up-to-date PBI reference out of this project - both documentation and a starting design.



#110 flashjazzcat OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:51 AM

Agreed. Although in hindsight it's rather obvious what I did wrong, when implementing these things in the first place there's little in the way of reliable references. Too often one relies on disassembly of existing code (assuming something can be found) to pick up clues.

#111 TangentAudio OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:03 AM

Agreed. Although in hindsight it's rather obvious what I did wrong, when implementing these things in the first place there's little in the way of reliable references. Too often one relies on disassembly of existing code (assuming something can be found) to pick up clues.

 

That's it in a nutshell - there is no single definitive source of PBI documentation that contains the right mix of factual information from the scant official sources and real-world experiences from the small number of people who have developed working PBI hardware and handler code.  The articles that have been written do contain many nuggets of useful information, but to some extent they either suffer from being out of date, or the authors not having been privy to the wider pool of understanding we now have of some of the problems inherent in the bus (e.g. stuff that Hias has talked about in this thread).

 

A lot of these small details may sit languishing on someone's computer from a project they did, either intentionally because they don't want to share their work or accidentally because they figure nobody else is interested in the details.  Or worse yet, they disappear into the sands of time because the only copy gets destroyed or lost in the shuffle over the years.

 

I've been thinking a bit about what the best format would be for such a thing.  A simple document is nice because it's self contained and easy to keep track of a single file - but it's hard to make it a 'living' document where new information can be added by multiple authors.  A wiki would be nice because it allows it to be updated with new information as needed, but unfortunately it requires hosting and the long term safety of the data is questionable.  We could consider expanding the wikipedia PBI article, but a lot of the material we might want to reference (e.g. the Earl Rice ANTIC articles) is copyrighted, so that's a problem.  Ideally we end up with something where new examples and reference code and designs can be tacked on or referenced as people make new projects and are (hopefully) willing to share.

 

A Google Doc might be good, since multiple people could collaborate on it, but again it has a dependence on their long term hosting and ultimately the file does need to be 'owned' by an individual, and it's hard to make it an Atari community asset.



#112 Dropcheck ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:35 AM

Which ever physical form the information ultimately exists in, probably the only way to insure that it survives a single point failure is by auto updating mirroring on multiple sites.  I would be willing to host one such mirror. 



#113 TangentAudio OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:49 AM

Which ever physical form the information ultimately exists in, probably the only way to insure that it survives a single point failure is by auto updating mirroring on multiple sites.  I would be willing to host one such mirror. 

 

Github is also a good choice for longevity as projects can be forked and live on past one original author.



#114 Dropcheck ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:17 AM

 

Github is also a good choice for longevity as projects can be forked and live on past one original author.

 

I agree as well.  But there has been unrest over the last year or so, as Github has attempted to cater to its paying customers at the expense of the smaller free user base.  If I remember correctly there was unhappiness that some previously free features of the site were being withdrawn or deliberately crippled unless the user was a paying user.  Haven't heard any recent info on that, but Github as influential and robust as it is, is still just one site.  

 

There's no easy solution.  Every option has it's own short comings.   :( 



#115 HiassofT OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:34 AM

but Github as influential and robust as it is, is still just one site.

And, thanks to the beauty of git, even this doesn't matter much.

Every user who cloned the git repository will have a full copy of all the files and the histories on his local harddrive(s). So a mess like what happened with AspeQt can't happen.

And all users can easily make their local git trees publically available. You just need some linux box with network connectivity, ssh (so you can push you git trees/updates) and some web server to make the trees (read-only) available to the public.

so long,

Hias

#116 Dropcheck ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:18 PM

Just to bump this back onto the first page.  And to see if there is an update.  :)



#117 TangentAudio OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:30 PM

Just to bump this back onto the first page.  And to see if there is an update.  :)

 

I won't be back into it until later in the week due to some work travel for our huge yearly trade show.  Before I left, I did have a chance to try out some test code from FJC and unfortunately it didn't seem to help out the conflict situation much, so we need to look at it a bit deeper.

 

I did make a small change to allow the PBI device ID to be set from DIP switch, to make it easier to test out some different scenarios.  I also took a little time to get everything else pushed up to github before I left.  I had hoped to find some time to do more research and reading while I've been traveling but free time and leftover brain cells have both been hard to come by.



#118 TangentAudio OFFLINE  

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Posted Today, 7:02 AM

Finally back home from a week in Las Vegas.  Hoping to get down to the lab today and boot up the Atari and see where I left off with this project, and figure out if I still know how to do any engineering. :)







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