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DM2 and DM1000


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#26 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:58 PM

I dunno 'bout you, but my solution would be... quit using the DM2 and just use a program that works.



#27 Opry99er OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:00 PM

Strange... I have never had DM2 go so slowly before, and I've used it for years. I think I even have a video out there on YouTube of me initializing floppies using DM2.

Why does the verification process slow down drastically as it gets further along in the process, and why does it only verify a couple of sectors between 1 and 100. But 1 every 8-10 between 100 and 200? And then every other sector from that point on?

You are probably right, as you usually are. ;) But it is not a behavior I have ever experienced before, and I've used DM2 for years.

I will do some further testing to get and determine why it is doing this.

In the meantime, I will try to initialize a disk in DM1000 with Verify "Y" and see what happens.


Thanks, insane. ;)

#28 arcadeshopper OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:42 PM

could it be dm2 verifies each sector as formatted and dm1000 does them all then checks them all?   since dm2 is doing a reseek each sector your dirty drive is not seeking properly back?



#29 InsaneMultitasker OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:19 PM

I don't know if I am right or not, as there are a lot of good ideas posted her.  From my perspective, if the disks are bad or the drive is performing improperly, verify is one of the only ways you'll know other than the inability to read/write or losing data.  Better to cover the bases now versus saving something new and finding it trashed.

 

 

I dunno 'bout you, but my solution would be... quit using the DM2 and just use a program that works.

Moving from DM2 to DM1000 without testing the verification would not be a solution, as that may leave Owen open to more problems as he tries to use his floppy system. DM2 is failing for a reason - good or bad remains to be seen.



#30 Opry99er OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:24 PM

Yea, which is why I am bringing it up in the first place. My instinct was to just use DM1000, but something is not right here, and I need to figure it out before I start losing a bunch of data or destroying disks.

Thanks for all the help, guys.

#31 Opry99er OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:09 AM

Slightly OT here, but assuming my drive is single sided, is there anything keeping me from cutting a notch on the other side of the disk and formatting both sides separately?

Double the storage on a single disk?

#32 Opry99er OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:15 AM

Soon I will be doing this...



#33 sparkdrummer OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:29 AM

To make a "flippy" for a ti you have to punch a write protect notch on the opposite side AND punch a sector index hole on both sides of the disk opposite of the existing holes. Refer to Yesterday's News vol 1 no 5 page 1. I really dug the disk drive music! If you upload a pic of the backside of those new disks I can probably tell you who the original manufacturer was.

#34 Opry99er OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:33 AM

Thanks sparkdrummer!!

I'll look at the info for the flippy. :D

#35 schmitzi ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:48 AM

Slightly OT here, but assuming my drive is single sided, is there anything keeping me from cutting a notch on the other side of the disk and formatting both sides separately?

Double the storage on a single disk?

 

If your drive is single sided, there will be no mitigation by flipping the floppy disk :)

If your floppies are single sided, you can do that "notch", but not the best advise, depending on the quality of each  disks.

 

Didn´t you format Double Sided in the first video, and Single Sided in the 2nd ?

 

In the 2nd video you can hear that something is totally going wrong, referring to the sounds.

The drive seems to pull the head over the whole disk, for each sector (or track).

Normally you hear this short sounds, like stepping sector by sector....

 

Didn´t you have a similar problem about one year ago, after your big move ?

Is this the same system ?

Maybe try the DM from an original cartridge, if you have...

 

So, what drive are you exactly using, and what disks ?

Is the controller modded (80) ?

 

-> I think your drive is flappy, but not sure for that

 

Maybe we call it ´Flappy Drive´ and ´Flappy Disks´ ;)



#36 Opry99er OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:00 AM

Single sided disks can be removed from the drive,physically flipped upside down, and reinserted. :) The single sided drive will see it now as a different disk altogether. When formatted, the disk must be formatted once for each side.

Standard TI FDC, no mods.

I have been having problems with my 5.25 drive for a couple years now. Until this week, I have not been able to even use the drive. In a fit of anger and determination, I took the whole thing out, cleaned contacts on the card, the connections for the drive, reseated the card in a new slot, and re-attached everything. Now it works, but still the issues with formatting via DM2.

I am pretty sure it is a Single sided Shugart 400 model drive.

I have used Elephant, 3M, Scotch, Verbatim, and no-name diskettes, all with similar results.

#37 schmitzi ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:19 AM

yes, I remember that flipping disks in former times, but I also remember some problems,

especially as this single sided ones were ´rejects´ from the double sided production.

So nothing (!) is guaranteed.

 

If the drive is ´single sided´, why did you format the floppy ´double-sided´ in the 1st video ?

Did you try formatting single-sided, with the old DM2 (and not XB27, as another try) ?

(I am getting a little bit confused now) :) :)

 

But I think, your old problem with the drive still exists, in any way.

I exactly remember what happened a year ago (or 1 1/2?)

strange, how time goes by :)



#38 Lee Stewart OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:46 AM

If your drive is single sided, there will be no mitigation by flipping the floppy disk :)

If your floppies are single sided, you can do that "notch", but not the best advise, depending on the quality of each  disks. ...

 

If the floppy is manufactured as a double-sided floppy, i.e., intended for use of both sides, there should be absolutely no problem turning it into a flippy floppy for use in a single-sided drive.

 

,,,lee



#39 mizapf OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:31 AM

Error 41: "Record not found on print"

 

Maybe pull out the serial/printer card ? (and all other drives)

 

 

The "print" very likely refers to the write operation, so I would interpret this as a failed sector write. It supposedly tried to write sector 0, but did not find the sector header. The sector header should have been written during the format procedure. So this could mean that the disk is either not writable at that location (does not accept the magnetizing, maybe magnetic particles scratched off), the floppy head or the signal amplifier on the floppy drive has a problem, the cable is broken, or the controller chip is damaged. I suppose we don't have HD disks here - otherwise this would be an expected behavior.



#40 schmitzi ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:37 AM

ah, maybe the cabling ?



#41 Opry99er OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:24 AM

yes, I remember that flipping disks in former times, but I also remember some problems,
especially as this single sided ones were ´rejects´ from the double sided production.
So nothing (!) is guaranteed.
 
If the drive is ´single sided´, why did you format the floppy ´double-sided´ in the 1st video ?
Did you try formatting single-sided, with the old DM2 (and not XB27, as another try) ?
(I am getting a little bit confused now) :) :)
 
But I think, your old problem with the drive still exists, in any way.
I exactly remember what happened a year ago (or 1 1/2?)
strange, how time goes by :)



I didn't know it was a single sided drive until yesterday. :) Honestly, I have been using only my 3.5 drives for the last three or four years because my 5.25 has been so flaky and never really worked right since I installed it...

Yesterday I started by trying to read a ToD file that I wanted to play. No go.... drive ERRORS. I tried multiple disks that I knew were good, and none would work.

I took all the cards and cables out of the PBox, cleaned contacts, reseated all drive connections, and tried again. This time I was able to load ToD games, I was able to read some older XB programs, etc.

It was at this point that I decided to format a disk.

Now, with my 3.5 drives, I rarely ever had any issues formatting with DM2, and it has been at least 3-4 years since I did anything meaningful with my 5.25.

My previous two 5.25 drives were double sided, my 3.5s are double sided, and I had just forgotten that this one was single.

Since getting it going yesterday, I have been using the hell out of it... formatting 10 or so disks, reading and saving ToD games, small tester XB programs, etc.

If I can get my PC going again (hard drive issues) I will be transferring all my old 5.25 disks (many from the 80s) to digital. I have wanted to do this for 3-4 years now, but never trusted my drive enough to do it. Last time I tried, I destroyed the head on my beloved IBM drive. :crying:

Anyway, I think the drive is functional, but something is still not quite right, I fear.

#42 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:39 AM

Yeah, the original SSSD 90K TI drives sucked.  BITD many of us took our first upgrade steps by getting 5.25's from guys who were upgrading their PC's to half-height units.  The original PC drives looked exactly like the TI drives... except they were double sided and gave us TI'ers 180K capability with the standard TI floppy controller.



#43 Opry99er OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:05 AM

That's probably what this is. The first one I had (since picking it all back up in 2007) was an IBM Double Sided drive. The second was (I believe) an 800 series Shugart.

When both of those died, I had one in a PEB I had picked up. It was probably a stock drive.

#44 InsaneMultitasker OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:15 PM

Yea, which is why I am bringing it up in the first place. My instinct was to just use DM1000, but something is not right here, and I need to figure it out before I start losing a bunch of data or destroying disks.

Thanks for all the help, guys.

Yep.  Half-height drives come available now and then.  Might be worthwhile to consider moving in that direction if you intend to use 5.25" for the long haul.  Some of the Shugart drives had alignment and other issues, which showed up later when you tried to use a floppy formatted in the drive with a newer drive.  Sounds like you are making some good progress to rid yourself of the floppy demons ;)



#45 Opry99er OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:23 PM

What I want eventually is a Corcomp controller. I want an HxC as disk 1, along with a half height 5.25 next to it in the PBox as DSK2. Then my two 3.5s as DSK3 and DSK4. :D

I'll keep my eyes out for a half height drive. Last time I priced them, they were a bit pricey for a compatible drive.


Thanks!!

#46 Opry99er OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:48 PM

As an added bonus to my new-found 5.25 disk access, it seems my cleaning and fiddling has also remedied the intermittent issue I was having with DSK2 reliability. It would read sometimes, sometimes not. Now it seems to be reliably reading and writing with no hitches. :D

#47 arcadeshopper OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:14 PM

Slightly OT here, but assuming my drive is single sided, is there anything keeping me from cutting a notch on the other side of the disk and formatting both sides separately?

Double the storage on a single disk?

 

nope there's only really two issues, 

 

1- you have to also punch the index holes near the center (not through the media please:) ) 

2- when you play a disk one direction all the material inside that keeps it clean etc is pulled one direction, when you 'flippy floppy' you then make the disk spin the other way, causing some abrasion/release of material that may come loose as it's spun against the way it usually is..  I have flippy floppies that work great 30 years later.. and some that don't.. probably should keep the heads clean if you do this a lot.  way easier to just get a ds drive






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