Beginning Zelda

[+atari2600land]

So I figured since everyone likes Zelda that I should make a Zelda-like game for the Game Boy. Here's the problem: I've never played Zelda before in my entire life (except to meet Error, which doesn't really count since he's like in the first level.) So for research, I would need to play a Zelda game (which, as I said, I haven't done.) So, which Zelda game would be perfect for the absolute beginner? The first NES one? Or some other one? I would need one with a guide. Does the Game Boy Zelda (I think it's called Link's Awakening) have one? (I would prefer to have pro's views on stuff instead of just some random guy on Game Faq's.) My game will be called Frank the Fruit Fly, (in case you haven't read my blog where I share experiences with Game Boy programming.) I've seen the prices of Zelda games, and man they're expensive! More so than SMB games. (LIke I said, must be since everyone loves them.) Any advice you can give me would be great for me and Frank.

 

[StopDrop&Retro]

I'm not a programmer, but I think you should make games that you enjoy and know a lot about, not because they're popular. It just seems like you're going to miss a lot of what Zelda fans like because you're unfamiliar, but I guess you're at least trying to familiarize yourself. Oh well, here's my thoughts on your question of where to start:

 

Should you start with the first one? - GOOD GOD NO!!!! I played the first game and while I consider myself to be pretty good at games, especially retro games, I found the first Zelda to be the most frustrating experience I've ever embarked on. It is the definition of "a guide game." I literally had to play it on a handheld emulator while sitting in front of my computer with an online walkthrough because every time I would accomplish something I would end up lost and needing the guide anyways. Some people would say that's precisely why I didn't "get" the game and I should have spent the next three years of my life burning every bush and bombing every rock to get the real Zelda experience.... yeah, right. This game has no place in the modern gaming space and people who adore it are looking back at it with rose tinted glasses. Also, I don't think there's an official guide for it, but I might be wrong.

 

My recommendation: Link's Awakening for Gameboy. It's much more up front and far less cryptic with its puzzles. I did hear on one podcast they were complaining that it was too easy to get lost, something I don't agree with. But I know there is an official guide, I have it and didn't need it to beat the game. It is my favorite Zelda game.

 

A lot of people are going to recommend Link to the Past. I beat it but wasn't a big fan and I know I'm pretty much alone in that, oh well.

 

But still, my overarching recommendation is to make a game about what you like and that's where you'll find the most success.

[Pixelboy]

Yeah, Link's Awakening is an excellent introduction to the Zelda franchise.

[+wongojack]

I love the original game. I played it in its heyday. TBH it always seemed to make more sense than a lot of other games at the time, but I also agree it is probably not the place to start. Link's Awakening is an excellent idea. I'd also suggest A Link to the Past and The Minnish Cap.

[Flojomojo]

SD&R is being a drama queen. You can totally start with the first one, it's very playable, and everything that comes after references it. The "hard" thing is finding the dungeons, so here's a map. Everything you can't figure out in your own fits on this single page. The rest is action and (very) light puzzling.

 

https://www.gamefaqs.com/nes/563433-the-legend-of-zelda/faqs/12694?print=1

 

The SNES game Link to the Past, is the other must-play according to most people. I found it boring and never finished it, but everyone is different.

 

From there, Ocarina of Time would be a good third game, if you haven't gotten Zelda out of your system. It's honestly a bit paint-by-numbers, not as bad as a turn-based JRPG, but you'll definitely figure out the formula and tropes. That's what a lot of people seem to enjoy most.

 

I don't think you have any business making a Zelda-like game until you've run through a few of these.

[Flojomojo]

P. S. Of course there's an official guide. It was about the size of a Readers Digest but about half as thick, and stapled rather than glued. Here's a download if you want an electronic version. https://www.reddit.com/r/zelda/comments/2tdp2o/complete_pdf_of_zelda_tips_tactics_nes_its_about/

 

I don't usually disagree with StoppyDroppy but this time he's just talking crap and must be ignored. :-P

[godslabrat]

Pick three. Doesn't matter which ones, as long as they're not on CD-I. Play through them, THEN decide if you want to make a Zelda clone. Zelda games have a very specific flavor, and if you don't know anything about them, you'll be on a fool's errand no matter where you start.

 

The nice thing about this franchise is, there's no perfect starting point or terrible one. Just play several games before you think you "have it"

[StopDrop&Retro]

Does the included map tell you which specific part of a wall to blow up? No. You have to toss bombs around, which you don't have an unlimited supply of. So if you want to get through it without a guide you have to experiment and grind for more bombs. Fun.

 

Does the map tell you which direction combination to use to get through the Lost Woods? No. Someone going in fresh without a guide would just assume they've entered an area they shouldn't be in yet or don't have the right item for since none of the items get you further. Yep, not frustrating at all!

 

Does the map tell you how to get a fairy to appear at a pond to reveal the next dungeon? No. All you get is a pond with no other explanation (more than one actually, but only one has the dungeon). Great.

 

Face it. Zelda NES is a guide game and always was. If you are new to the series it is a horrible place to start when you need to consult a guide or find someone who knows what to do every step of the way.

[BassGuitari]

FWIW Link's Awakening DX for GBC is my favorite Zelda game.

[StanJr]

There is a guy who tells you how to get through the Lost Woods. There are many other clues built into the game as well if you take the time to explore and find them. The only way you need a guide for LoZ is if you want the game spoon fed to you. If you want to actually play the game and get something out of it, then you never need a guide. I know it will seem like a miracle, but I was able to beat both quests back in the ancient times without a guide of any kind, only the baffling, and oft wrong, clues in the instruction manual. If you need a guide to tell you where to bomb and burn and how to find the secrets, then maybe a Zelda game isn't for you.

Back OT to the OP: Start with the first one, screw the guide. Play the game. It's fun, it's rewarding, and you'll feel like you've done something when you beat the first quest. BUT, if you are just playing this to get ideas for a game you want to make, I say don't bother. Just watch a play through or something and then make the game you want to make.

[0078265317]

Original NES Zelda is the best.

[NE146]

Does the included map tell you which specific part of a wall to blow up? No. You have to toss bombs around, which you don't have an unlimited supply of. So if you want to get through it without a guide you have to experiment and grind for more bombs. Fun.

 

Does the map tell you which direction combination to use to get through the Lost Woods? No. Someone going in fresh without a guide would just assume they've entered an area they shouldn't be in yet or don't have the right item for since none of the items get you further. Yep, not frustrating at all!

 

Does the map tell you how to get a fairy to appear at a pond to reveal the next dungeon? No. All you get is a pond with no other explanation (more than one actually, but only one has the dungeon). Great.

 

Face it. Zelda NES is a guide game and always was. If you are new to the series it is a horrible place to start when you need to consult a guide or find someone who knows what to do every step of the way.

re lost forest.. it doesn't tell you??

 

 

lol.. for a "retro" guy you sure are the WRONG person to be talking about Zelda it seems because you get none of it. It wasn't a guide game at all.. but it WAS a rumor / discussion / find information about things slowly game. I remember I had no clue you could bomb holes and when I found that out on my own was one of the coolest feeling ever... then I spent weeks and weeks bombing every single place on my hand drawn paper map. It was awesome. But yes I'll admit people are used to more immediate gratification today vs. having any inkling of spending 30 minutes dinking with the lost woods (which is how I figured it out), or feeling something was "suspicious" with the single lone pond. (btw.. I'm also not sure what you're talking about with the fairy / pond.. there's one pod with a fairy that gives you hearts, and the other pond is "mysterious" where you if you blow a whistle the dungeon appears.. that's about it).

 

That's why I really love Breath of the Wild too.. it's a game you should NOT use any guides for but just simply get in there and be lost and clueless for a while... a long while, and pay attention.. because it directly rewards those who spend time not knowing what in the heck to do and come up with their own solutions. My kid figured out a "save often / die / resume with 3 hearts" way to get through cold areas and that worked fine! I spent multiple hours doing nothing and realizing I could kill fish with bombs and arrows and managed to find a anti-cold suit instead.. Awesomeness.. and just when you think you kind of know the area the game blows up and expands greatly. .

Edited April 30, 2017 by NE146

[Tanooki]

I don't know about Frank you're working on, is that supposed to be Zelda like?

 

Personally I'd suggest 3 games, and to do them in the order of release. NES-Zelda, SNES-Zelda, and GBC-Zelda Link's Awakening DX.

 

It has a nice natural flow and progression, but never got to the point of annoyance, feeling worn out, or convoluted. Yes they ALL are guide games. Nintendo released a Tips & Tricks book for Zelda(NES) but also Nintendo Power Magazine has a heap of writeups on it with maps. The game itself has a mini fold out help clue book and map as well(partial.) Nintendo has also repeatedly re-released guides on that NES game in the original Official Nintendo Player's Guide, NES Atlas, and even the recent NES Classic Edition companion book has it.

 

SNES-Zelda has a really stellar official guide that's a must, as does Link's Awakening (non DX) and a Prima DX(official) too which covers the added color dungeon.

 

Zelda games on the whole are and always will be guide games. You'll get your usual know it all gamer who focuses on Zelda so much, or has a keen eye for their types of puzzles and good patience to put up with it and can slug it out and find all the weird stuff. In general though, hidden walls(especially non-textures obviousness of Zelda NES), all those heart pieces, and so on aren't so obvious in many cases.

 

Those 3 guides I mentioned are in beautiful PDF format online.

[Eltigro]

Definitely the CD-i games...

[StanJr]

 

 

Zelda games on the whole are and always will be guide games. You'll get your usual know it all gamer who focuses on Zelda so much, or has a keen eye for their types of puzzles and good patience to put up with it and can slug it out and find all the weird stuff. In general though, hidden walls(especially non-textures obviousness of Zelda NES), all those heart pieces, and so on aren't so obvious in many cases.

 

 

 

 

I'm starting to come around to this "guide games" idea. In a world where average "gamers" can't beat LoZ (and games like it) without a guide, my video game prowess is on par with the gods. Plus I'm designated a "know it all gamer." I. Know. It. All. I love it. What other games do you people suck at that I can lord over you on? :lol:

[Gamemoose]

Another thing with LoZ was, back in the day, people would swap tips or "show off" what they knew to their friends.

 

When I first played LoZ, I felt so lost as I never played a game like it before. I fumbled about to the amusement of my friend who owned the game. When he took control, it was like watching an old master. From him I learned about burning trees and bombing walls. I took off with it when I bought my own copy of the game.

 

I have to agree with others- it's not a "guide" game unless you wanted it to be. I don't see what the big deal is- so there is exploration and trial and error. I'll take that over grinding in an MMORPG.

[Tanooki]

^Exactly between what everyone talked about at the school yard and then all the maps and tips in tip pages if not outright mini guides in Nintendo Power you owned or someone handed around, it's not like that many people played the game cold and blind in the 80s. Enough items in any of those Zelda titles tend to be various obtuse oddities to stumble or accident into by some mechanic that defies some sense of logic.

 

I think the only Nintendo game I never played any part of to date from the Zelda franchise without a guide would be Breath of the Wild and Link Faces of Evil on the CDi. Everything else basically got the hell covered out of it by Nintendo in some form of their now dead magazine or official guides. BotW is just so starkly new and out there throwing out the entire play mechanic side of zelda entirely I just went into it playing blind as Link was without his memories to just enjoy the exploration of it. I know I've missed more than 1/2 the game easily and odds are I'd never find much of what I missed anyway if it wasn't in fairly plain sight or had a pretty obvious tip off how to locate it (like the goron hotplate for a shrine.) When I can find a used guide for it in time for a good 50% off or nicer I'll get it, then get into the weird stuff as time permits.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Tanooki

[godslabrat]

BITD, the rule was "TRY ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING." The original Zelda, while very challenging, I'm convinced is beatable without a guide if you do, in fact, T.A.E.

 

Sorry, but I spent my childhood burning every bush and bombing every wall. There were games with absolute BS solutions, but Zelda wasn't one of them.

[+wongojack]

I always felt like there was a certain pattern to what walls to bomb and bushes to burn. Once you saw the pattern, the game kind of opened up.

[godslabrat]

Plus, the first game actually allows you to buy keys for the dungeons in overworld shops. That easily helps break the game in your favor.

Edited May 2, 2017 by godslabrat

[Opry99er]

I remember the first time I plugged in the shiny gold cartridge into my front loader... It was like entering another universe.

 

That said, Link to the Past is probably more accessible. Loved and STILL love the original. And I still have my original gold cartridge, 30ish years later.

[Skippy B. Coyote]

I'm not a programmer, but I think you should make games that you enjoy and know a lot about, not because they're popular. It just seems like you're going to miss a lot of what Zelda fans like because you're unfamiliar, but I guess you're at least trying to familiarize yourself. Oh well, here's my thoughts on your question of where to start:

 

Should you start with the first one? - GOOD GOD NO!!!! I played the first game and while I consider myself to be pretty good at games, especially retro games, I found the first Zelda to be the most frustrating experience I've ever embarked on. It is the definition of "a guide game." I literally had to play it on a handheld emulator while sitting in front of my computer with an online walkthrough because every time I would accomplish something I would end up lost and needing the guide anyways. Some people would say that's precisely why I didn't "get" the game and I should have spent the next three years of my life burning every bush and bombing every rock to get the real Zelda experience.... yeah, right. This game has no place in the modern gaming space and people who adore it are looking back at it with rose tinted glasses. Also, I don't think there's an official guide for it, but I might be wrong.

 

My recommendation: Link's Awakening for Gameboy. It's much more up front and far less cryptic with its puzzles. I did hear on one podcast they were complaining that it was too easy to get lost, something I don't agree with. But I know there is an official guide, I have it and didn't need it to beat the game. It is my favorite Zelda game.

 

A lot of people are going to recommend Link to the Past. I beat it but wasn't a big fan and I know I'm pretty much alone in that, oh well.

 

But still, my overarching recommendation is to make a game about what you like and that's where you'll find the most success.

 

I agree 100% with every bit of that. Make games you like rather than what's popular, skip the original Zelda because it's far too difficult to figure out where to go and what to do in any reasonable period of time without a guide, and go for Link's Awakening or Link's Awakening DX for a great 2D Zelda experience.

 

Link's Awakening DX is actually my personal favorite Zelda game, and I've played all of them except for Link Between Worlds and Breath of the Wild. I know most people seem to think of Link to the Past as the iconic Zelda game but frankly some of the puzzles in it are just way too cryptic to try and figure out without a guide. On the other hand I think Link's Awakening has just the right puzzle difficulty level. Enough that you may have to spend a few minutes pondering over what to do now and then, but it'll always become clear before too long without making you need to resort to using a strategy guide. Nintendo really nailed the puzzle difficulty on that one, and it had some great humor too.

[CatPix]

IMO, if you wanna do a Game Boy game, I would recommand playing Link's Awakening first. It isn't the most representative of all LOZ games (but, is any game in the LOZ franchise representative of what LOZ is? ) Then the Oracle Of Age and Oracle of Season.

Because unlike the first Zelda, they are more representative of the LOZ series, as they are more advanced. And more importantly, they will give you an idea of what you can do with Zelda on the Game Boy.

 

No one today would imagine playing a modern LOZ game without a in-game map, without the slight cracks in the walls to tell you about where to bomb, puzzles with statues or item to puck or pick up, etc.

I agree with some people up there, the first Zelda is a very hard experience for the modern player. I never managed to beat it now, and even today with a guide, I didn't get past Dungeon 5 or 6. (seriously, I have 10 hearts, and the Wizzrobes destroy my ass in 3 hits, and there are 3 of them is almost each room? ). Also, getting lost might be an interesting experience in Breath of the Wild, but on the NES game... Or on Game Boy, unless you fill your games with nice details and hidden stuffs everywhere, it's just...wasting your time and batteries (if you plan to make your game playable on a real GB).

Later games are more friendly and most people will recognize them.

My advice is that you play the 2D games, and maybe watch let's plays or longplays of the other games in the series to get some more of the LOZ "classic stuff".

Strangely, I would also advice you to take a look at Wisdom Tree' Spiritual Warfare, to see what a Zelda lookalike game can be (it exist on NES and GB, but I believe the game play is the same on both) most people think it's trash, and while it's a bit rough on the edges, it's actually better than what most comments let you guess, and there are interesting mechanics in it, mostly that weapons you get can be upgraded with hidden "replicas" of them, a thing that is not so present in LOZ.

[7800fan]

Regardless of which Zelda game you decide to adapt, please do not include Navi type helper! There have been times when I want to shoot or blow up that annoying fairy. It may have been somewhat helpful the very first time playing but after 50th times, it's mind-numbing annoying.

[CatPix]

Or maybe a helper like in Skyward Sword, that blink when she think she can help you, but only come up if you press a button.