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CollectorVision Game System


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#451 retroillucid OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 7, 2018 2:32 PM

 

 

Quick question about your system, can it also have an f-18a mode as well? It would be cool to have that added benefit. Thanks again for everything you do for the scene.

 

Yes! :)



#452 Pixelboy OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 7, 2018 2:42 PM

If I remember correctly , you won't be able to plug an sgm into their console .


You will ;)


Ah, so that's what you meant by supporting the SGM in a "legal way". That's quite interesting. :)

From this point on, however, you should expect a ton of requests for Expansion Module #1 support! :P

#453 Bmack36 ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 7, 2018 2:46 PM

From this point on, however, you should expect a ton of requests for Expansion Module #1 support! :P

 

Not going to happen.

 

There will be an expansion Module #1, but it will not be the Atari2600 that plugs into the colecovision ;)



#454 HDTV1080P OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 7, 2018 8:53 PM

Things are constantly changing with this project. Either OPCODE is going to make a special Supergame module that fits in the CollectorVision expansion slot, or the CollectorVision videogame system is now going to have an official Coleco compatible expansion module interface to use the existing OPCODE SGM.

 

Now the big question is well Expansion Module #1 the Atari 2600 adapter or Expansion module #3 the ADAM computer work from the CollectorVision expansion slot?

 

From what Bmack36 said in his last post it’s a no about Expansion Module #1, however what about Expansion module #3?

 

It would be disappointing if only the SGM is the device that can plug in the expansion slot. And is the expansion slot just being changed to a Coleco style so that one does not need to emulate the OPCODE SGM with the logic arrays? I liked it when the SGM was built in to the CollectorVision videogame system instead of a add on device. And I would be willing to pay $300+ for the system if it had a built in SGM.  


Edited by HDTV1080P, Thu Jun 7, 2018 8:55 PM.


#455 Pixelboy OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 7, 2018 9:30 PM

Not going to happen.
 
There will be an expansion Module #1, but it will not be the Atari2600 that plugs into the colecovision ;)


Hmmm... Let me guess: A "Mini-ADAM" expansion module, with 32K of RAM, PS2 keyboard connector and SD card slot? If so, it would be nice to have another connector for a mouse, and then have a Windows-like GUI interface when the Mini-ADAM runs in computer mode.

Just thinking out loud. :)

#456 HDTV1080P OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 7, 2018 9:44 PM

Hmmm... Let me guess: A "Mini-ADAM" expansion module, with 32K of RAM, PS2 keyboard connector and SD card slot? If so, it would be nice to have another connector for a mouse, and then have a Windows-like GUI interface when the Mini-ADAM runs in computer mode.

Just thinking out loud. :)

Or better yet just add a Coleco ADAM software core, then no mini ADAM expansion is needed. While two PS/2 connectors are ideal if USB is not used, I posted in this thread awhile ago that with only one PS/2 jack, if a PS/2  y adapter is connected, both a keyboard and mouse can be used at the exact same time.   



#457 killersquirel OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 4:27 AM

 

Yes! :)

 

That is great news. Will that be a feature on a menu that you can turn on and off? I know Opcode has his color line of games that have a different colors depending on if you have an f18a or not and it would be cool to see the differences between the two on your system.

Another question, will it have Adam support where you could load Adam software off of the SD card? Either built in or with an expansion interface like Pixelboy had brought up? That would be absolutely awesome if it did have that feature. Thanks again for the updates on your awesome system.



#458 youki OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 5:30 AM

Does your console will be compatible PS4 and XBOX One? ....    just kidding.  :D

 

but thing about that, it would be fun to have that retro console  the same concept than the Nintendo switch.   You could use it on a TV screen or as handheld :)  ... just Dreaming this time.  :)



#459 HDTV1080P OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 5:50 AM

Does your console will be compatible PS4 and XBOX One? ....    just kidding.  :D

 

but thing about that, it would be fun to have that retro console  the same concept than the Nintendo switch.   You could use it on a TV screen or as handheld :)  ... just Dreaming this time.  :)

I never checked out the ColecoVision emulator for the XBOX One X or the PS4. It would be neat to run ColecoVision rom images off a BD-ROM drive. If these emulators were very good ColecoVision emualators then I would strongly consider getting a XBOX One X for both classic videogames and modern 4K videogames on Blu-ray discs.



#460 Pixelboy OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 7:08 AM

Another question, will it have Adam support where you could load Adam software off of the SD card? Either built in or with an expansion interface like Pixelboy had brought up? That would be absolutely awesome if it did have that feature. Thanks again for the updates on your awesome system.


There's more to the ADAM than meets the eye at first glance. ADAM software often depends on the ADAMNet system which is used to manage all the peripherals attached to the main console, like the Digital Data Pack drives, the floppy drive(s) and even the keyboard if I remember correctly. So to run ADAM software without any modification, one needs to somehow reproduce the ADAMNet system (so that the software doesn't realize it's not running on an actual ADAM) which may be doable in software-based emulators, but is probably harder to do in an expansion module.

I'm thinking a Mini-ADAM should be something else, and simpler in design: Have the software on cartridges (it's quite doable today with the MegaCart PCB) and then you only need some ports on the expansion module for the keyboard (and hopefully a mouse) and a SD card reader/writer. A parallel port for a printer would be nice, but not essential because printers with parallel cables are very hard to find today anyway, and supporting modern USB-based printers would be a challenge and a half. The Mini-ADAM should be seen as a toy computer, nothing more. We've got Windows-based laptops today for "productivity applications".

EDIT: I forgot about a possible modem device, which would be way more interesting than a printer peripheral. Imagine connecting to a BBS-like hub via a landline, and the server at the other end of the line would actually be connected to the internet. Then you could have something similar to HTML which would be used as a communication protocol between the BBS-like server and a browser program running on the Mini-ADAM. Now that would be pretty cool. :)

#461 jblenkle OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 10:17 AM

Them there is fighting words!!!!

 

 The Mini-ADAM should be seen as a toy computer, nothing more. We've got Windows-based laptops today for "productivity applications".

 



#462 HDTV1080P OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 12:33 PM

There's more to the ADAM than meets the eye at first glance. ADAM software often depends on the ADAMNet system which is used to manage all the peripherals attached to the main console, like the Digital Data Pack drives, the floppy drive(s) and even the keyboard if I remember correctly. So to run ADAM software without any modification, one needs to somehow reproduce the ADAMNet system (so that the software doesn't realize it's not running on an actual ADAM) which may be doable in software-based emulators, but is probably harder to do in an expansion module.

I'm thinking a Mini-ADAM should be something else, and simpler in design: Have the software on cartridges (it's quite doable today with the MegaCart PCB) and then you only need some ports on the expansion module for the keyboard (and hopefully a mouse) and a SD card reader/writer. A parallel port for a printer would be nice, but not essential because printers with parallel cables are very hard to find today anyway, and supporting modern USB-based printers would be a challenge and a half. The Mini-ADAM should be seen as a toy computer, nothing more. We've got Windows-based laptops today for "productivity applications".

EDIT: I forgot about a possible modem device, which would be way more interesting than a printer peripheral. Imagine connecting to a BBS-like hub via a landline, and the server at the other end of the line would actually be connected to the internet. Then you could have something similar to HTML which would be used as a communication protocol between the BBS-like server and a browser program running on the Mini-ADAM. Now that would be pretty cool. :)

The CollectorVision game system is already more powerful than the ADAM computer and it already has a SD wafer drive built in, a PS2 jack for both a keyboard and mouse when a PS2 Y adapter is attached. A programmer could simulate ADAMNET with software emulation inside the ColllectorVision game system, this would turn a PS2 keyboard and SD wafer Drive (SD Floppy Emualtor) into ADAMNET devices. Also a 2MB or larger ADAM memory expander could be simulated in the CollectorVision software.

 

The ability to have a modern day 80 column SmartWriter word processing program on the ADAM with spell checker and a Laser printer would be more popular then you can imagine. There are both faith based and secular parents raising young kids that do not like some of the stuff on the Internet. Starting a 5 year old kid off on a ADAM computer to do basic word processing and other programs that do not need Internet access would be more popular then you could imagine.

 

Yes factory new black and white Laser printers starting at $50+ today are all USB models. A decade ago finding a Laser printer with a parallel interface was very common. But with the expansion module interface on the CollectorVision game system adding 4 USB 3.0 ports would become a reality. Then modern USB keyboards, USB Marble Mouse trackballs, 3.5 inch 1.44MB USB disk drive, and USB steering wheel could all be plugged in at the same time. A USB to ADAMNET emulator would be awesome.    


Edited by HDTV1080P, Fri Jun 8, 2018 12:37 PM.


#463 Pixelboy OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 2:37 PM

The CollectorVision game system is already more powerful than the ADAM computer and it already has a SD wafer drive built in, a PS2 jack for both a keyboard and mouse when a PS2 Y adapter is attached. A programmer could simulate ADAMNET with software emulation inside the CollectorVision game system, this would turn a PS2 keyboard and SD wafer Drive (SD Floppy Emulator) into ADAMNET devices. Also a 2MB or larger ADAM memory expander could be simulated in the CollectorVision software.
 
The ability to have a modern day 80 column SmartWriter word processing program on the ADAM with spell checker and a Laser printer would be more popular then you can imagine. There are both faith based and secular parents raising young kids that do not like some of the stuff on the Internet. Starting a 5 year old kid off on a ADAM computer to do basic word processing and other programs that do not need Internet access would be more popular then you could imagine.
 
Yes factory new black and white Laser printers starting at $50+ today are all USB models. A decade ago finding a Laser printer with a parallel interface was very common. But with the expansion module interface on the CollectorVision game system adding 4 USB 3.0 ports would become a reality. Then modern USB keyboards, USB Marble Mouse trackballs, 3.5 inch 1.44MB USB disk drive, and USB steering wheel could all be plugged in at the same time. A USB to ADAMNET emulator would be awesome.


There's so much overblown wishful thinking in your statements that I hardly know where to begin.

First of all, CollectorVision has confirmed two things: 1) An actual SGM will need to be plugged into their FPGA console to support SGM-dependent games, which implies that a 60-pin front expansion port will be added to the unit. 2) They plan to release an expansion module, that I must assume will be plugged into that same front expansion port.

Now if we are to believe that this expansion module is some kind of computer add-on (note that it could be something else entirely) then it's logical to believe that the PS2 port for the keyboard will be moved to that expansion module. I wouldn't expect the SD card reader/writer to be moved, because it's needed on the FPGA console to update the firmware, load alternate FPGA cores, and also to load ROMs.

But I certainly don't expect any USB ports on that expansion module, because they are quite complicated sub-devices and it's the kind of thing that will drive up the production costs. Also, there's the issue of USB communication protocols that need to be dealt with by the FPGA console. I'm no expert on the matter, but I do know that most of today's laser printers (and many other USB devices) require the installation of drivers under Windows. How is that going to work with a customized FPGA console that doesn't follow industry standards like PCs do?

Also, you speak of "software emulation" like it's nothing at all, but there's a basic problem here: Software emulation in the usual sense of the term requires an operating system to manage peripherals (like joysticks) and run the emulator. We're talking about an FPGA console with no "significant" operating system to speak of, so you can forget about "emulating" ADAMNet at the software level. The only way to do it is to implement ADAMNet at the FPGA core level, and that's quite a challenge right there.

#464 retroillucid OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 3:02 PM

It's not just about what you/us would like to be featured, and you should add this, add that etc.. 
Of course, that would be cool to have a all in-1 CV/ADAM solution, but this is clearly not going to happen

Yeah, some people might be willing to pay $300+ for this system, but trust me, you're in minority
Most of people just want a brand new reliable CV system with some neat features

Adding a printer?!  ..... I mean, really!!?  O_o
 



#465 Bmack36 ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 3:27 PM

There's so much overblown wishful thinking in your statements that I hardly know where to begin.

First of all, CollectorVision has confirmed two things: 1) An actual SGM will need to be plugged into their FPGA console to support SGM-dependent games, which implies that a 60-pin front expansion port will be added to the unit. 2) They plan to release an expansion module, that I must assume will be plugged into that same front expansion port.
 

I never said it would plug directly into the system ;)



#466 Swami OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 4:00 PM

I never said it would plug directly into the system ;)

I'm gonna go with virtual SGM plug-in capability over wireless broadband. :-D



#467 Pixelboy OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 4:01 PM

I never said it would plug directly into the system ;)


Oh, so we're talking some kind of interface to some other type of expansion connector. Okay, never mind. :)

#468 HDTV1080P OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 6:34 PM

The hardware specs appear to keep changing for this CollectorVision system since its still in the development stages. Since this CollectorVision system is open source, this means any third party company can make software and hardware for the system. Yes, I agree that having ColecoVision compatibility with SGM support is the most important feature of the project. If a programmer several months after release date wants to use some type of operating system like Linux to try and emulate a Coleco ADAM that would be interesting. In the late 80’s there were some people that had a black and white Laser Printer connected to their ADAM computer using a parallel connection. So there is drivers for the ADAM computer that work with certain Laser printers. The problem today is one would need to find an old Laser printer with a parallel connection. I can live without a printer on the ADAM computer. 

 

The only reason why I mentioned Coleco ADAM support in a prior post is because one mentioned a possible change in the existing expansion module specs that might alllow for a real OPCODE SGM to be connected. If there is going to be some type of virtual software or hardware method to use the SGM features without a actual SGM, then my comments about plugging in Expansion Module #3 the ADAM computer would not be possible.   

 

The original specs for the CollectorVision system mentions that support for the TI-99/4 computer would be added in the future. The TI-99/4A must be a very popular computer system that was released back in June 1981 and was discontinued in March of 1984. Does anyone know how many TI-99/4A computers were sold? 


Edited by HDTV1080P, Fri Jun 8, 2018 6:39 PM.


#469 dragon57 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 8:00 PM

According to different articles I have read, TI sold close to three million TI-994A units.



#470 HDTV1080P OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 8:51 PM

According to different articles I have read, TI sold close to three million TI-994A units.

Thanks for the information, that is like 6 times the amount of ADAM’s sold, which explains why the CollectorVision system might emulate the TI-994A. Even though the 1983 Coleco ADAM was a more powerful computer, the ADAM only sold around 500,000+ computers (some articles claim up to a million but 500,000 is more realistic). The TI-994A was also lower priced when compared to the ADAM which helped generate more sales. In the early 80’s I use to play with the TI-994A computer in retail stores that had demos to play with (But I never owned one).


Edited by HDTV1080P, Fri Jun 8, 2018 8:54 PM.


#471 dragon57 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 9:01 PM

I had never checked on the Adam sales numbers all these years later. The Adam killed my computer business because of all the returns I had. I grew to hate that machine. :)



#472 HDTV1080P OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 9:21 PM

I had never checked on the Adam sales numbers all these years later. The Adam killed my computer business because of all the returns I had. I grew to hate that machine. :)

Yes when the ADAM first launched in October of 1983 it was rushed to market with bugs. Most the bugs were fixed in 1984 and with the R80 version of Smartwriter. Coleco kept making improvements in the hardware and software up until Jan of 1985. But the bad reputation at launch and also the videogame bubble ended up destroying Coleco.  


Edited by HDTV1080P, Fri Jun 8, 2018 9:23 PM.


#473 phoenixdownita OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 9:36 PM

^^^^^ it appears he is capable of writing in the std font & size after all ^^^^^



#474 phoenixdownita OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 9:53 PM

....

Also, you speak of "software emulation" like it's nothing at all, but there's a basic problem here: Software emulation in the usual sense of the term requires an operating system to manage peripherals (like joysticks) and run the emulator. We're talking about an FPGA console with no "significant" operating system to speak of, so you can forget about "emulating" ADAMNet at the software level. The only way to do it is to implement ADAMNet at the FPGA core level, and that's quite a challenge right there.

That's just not true, he suggests one can port Linux, the FPGA is already implementing a Z80 so we're half way there are we not? The first version of Unix ran on a PDP-11 which is a 16bit, here we have an 8bit so .... half way.  :twisted:



#475 phoenixdownita OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 11:41 PM

...
 
The ability to have a modern day 80 column SmartWriter word processing program on the ADAM with spell checker and a Laser printer would be more popular then you can imagine. There are both faith based and secular parents raising young kids that do not like some of the stuff on the Internet. Starting a 5 year old kid off on a ADAM computer to do basic word processing and other programs that do not need Internet access would be more popular then you could imagine.
...

... OR you yank the wireless card from a laptop after you installed/downloaded whatever it is that you think the kid would want to do (and I mean "productivity").
 
.... not sure why a 5 years old would care to do word processing with spell checker and a laser printer but hey .... to each his own.






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