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#76 peteym5 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:51 PM

I achieved perfect results using only my fingers, but yes, the ruler sounds like a good idea.

 

I used 4" tape.

I suggested the clear tape over the labels as an easy alternative on labels instead of ordering blank glossy labels from Avery or Sheetlabels. Sometimes with glossy, the ink may rub off just handling the cartridges. The clear tape also prevents that anyway. We will be using these on my games on cartridges.

 

I am currently in the process of taking games that can fit within a 32K memory space and porting them over to the 5200. Its taking me some time to figure out reading the analog joystick that uses the two paddle values, along with the keypad. I hope to have Delta Space Arena ready in a few weeks, and use it as a template to port other games. Like many other 5200 titles, these are going to be NTSC only because the 5200 only supported NTSC and primarily sold in North America. Most people in other parts of the world use adapters to make it play on their display device.

 

I really want my next set of games to start using new graphics tricks to have more colors and more sprites moving around as long they don't hog the CPU. Jungle Quest will be using DLIs with a scrolling screen to have more colors and sprites. Games with a few moving objects, I usually forward those to the Turbo Basic and Mad Pascal people. I go for the fast ML arcade games that barely complete the VBI tasks in one frame.


Edited by peteym5, Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:25 PM.


#77 peteym5 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 2, 2017 6:17 AM

I may be getting back to starting up new game projects next year. Lately I have been busy porting my existing game library to the 5200, 7800, and Jaguar. 5200 are almost direct ports. Will be using 7800 Basic. Allows these game titles to produce greater sales. Something we will be doing for anything ported from another game system is giving it a new title, along with some alterations and additions. Not port the original music. There already been a few 2600 games, like "Princess Rescue" released for sale that got shot down by the copyright owner. So far I had been lucky that the owners of Tempest and Venture had no interest on what we do on the 8-bit. After all we never make huge profits, or hurt the sales for their games on newer platforms.

 

we looked at the Klax idea, and been thinking of doing something with added characters. Do something like "Lucy in the Chocolate Factory" with it. What exactly we are doing is something you all have to wait and see.


Edited by peteym5, Thu Nov 2, 2017 6:18 AM.


#78 VladR OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 2, 2017 7:27 AM

Lately I have been busy porting my existing game library to the 5200, 7800, and Jaguar.

Jaguar ?

 

That's quite an entirely different architecture with the Object Processor. Do you plan to use straight ASM too ?

 

On the plus side, your games will be fine with using just 68000 without having to sync code across 5 different chips (GPU,DSP, OP, Blitter, 68000).



#79 _The Doctor__ ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 2, 2017 11:36 AM

but the difference between a eh eh port and an excellent port is using the hardware on each platform to it's best and greatest advantage... no reason the port can't be greater than where it starts!



#80 VladR OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 2, 2017 12:23 PM

but the difference between a eh eh port and an excellent port is using the hardware on each platform to it's best and greatest advantage...

Well, good luck trying to extract best performance out of jaguar :)

You first need to have a multithreaded renderer capable of splitting the rendering load between GPU, DSP. Not only it needs to divide the workload between the two, but the threads must be properly sync'ed, accounting for random performance spikes and able to handle any combination of vblanks passed between the start of the game frame, and end of it. Varying bandwidth utilization will not make things easier, as some frames Blitter will take few times longer to draw the same thing, so you gotta sync for that too (and no, waiting for Blitter after each Blitter call is just super lame and abusive).

 

Good luck trying to "debug" this via printing values (it's hard enough from visual studio in C++, let alone RISC assembler without debugger). The GPU has just 4 KB, and number printing code is quite long, so it doesn't fit there with the rest of the code that must be running. You could write a GPU-In-Main version of debug code, but that tends to barf on you especially when you desperately need it :)

And of course, when that debugging code runs 100%, the bandwidth usage is different, so the shit just suddenly works again, and there's no use of printing values, because it suddenly works :) So, you disable debugging, and bam :)

 

Another specialty of jaguar's RISC coding is inserting a NOP (or any instruction, really) that breaks the whole damn thing and nothing works, or much worse, stops working just enough randomly to drive you mad :)

 

 

So, a sane coder, would just use the Object Processor, e.g. just create an array of bitmaps on 68000, and let OP handle it. While it wouldn't extract more than, say, 3-5% of the jaguar's POWA (68000 will simply choke during vblank trying to recreate the OP list on anything more than a dozen (or two) bitmaps - which results in ugly OP glitch), it's by far the easiest way.

 

no reason the port can't be greater than where it starts!

I have to disagree strongly here, based on my long experience with jag coding :)

The amount of frustration you encounter on a regular basis with jag's RISC chips, is just astounding. Best to take some publicly available library or the basic, and just quickly bash it there and screw the JAG POWA :)



#81 _The Doctor__ ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 2, 2017 12:52 PM

yeah the 'easy' usually ends up being sucky.. seen a ton of that... yet hmmm the ones that just use a little bit of 'too much work' stuff seem to be pretty damn good... not going to continue down this path your probably one of those people who would lecture Minter that he was running things backwards and that would be unacceptable.... why prevent someone from the exploration and enjoyment as well as doing something exceptional? and no one say you can't use pre existing works to come up with your own or even start a conversation with the original coders of such work..... so tired of the only way or the other arguments.. some where in between is where most of this ends anyway...

 

 

With great power, comes the need for great skills and some degree of patience. So just like on the Falcon don't afraid to team the GPU up with the DSP and let the pieces of the power pie fall in where they may..... why such a downer always? I wouldn't discourage anyone from learning and expanding outward especially on the Jag...

 

vladr you used to think outside the box and were a positive guy... is everything ok?


Edited by _The Doctor__, Thu Nov 2, 2017 1:10 PM.


#82 VladR OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 2, 2017 1:55 PM

... not going to continue down this path your probably one of those people who would lecture Minter that he was running things backwards and that would be unacceptable....

Are you watching the "Battleground:Jaguar" forums on AA by any chance : )))) ?  I'm still far from fully playable release (though getting much closer), so can't say more in comparison to him. He did pretty darn good for his first jag game, that's for sure.

 

Also, since there was no competition in the genre, he got away with quite a suboptimal framerate (for the resolution in runs at). Perks of being first on the platform, and the only one in the genre :)

 

.... why prevent someone from the exploration and enjoyment as well as doing something exceptional?

The buffer between the exploration and enjoyment is very small on the jag's RISC chips :)

This does not apply to 68000 coding. That's business as usual, and you can 100% count on the code you wrote in past that it will always work, no matter what.

 

and no one say you can't use pre existing works to come up with your own or even start a conversation with the original coders of such work..... so tired of the only way or the other arguments.. some where in between is where most of this ends anyway...

True. I would have greatly enjoyed the opportunity to learn about the platform's RISC quirks before I got burnt many times (say 8-10 months ago), from somebody who worked on that platform. That would have removed a great deal of frustration, for sure.

Right now, though, it would only be a "beer conversation".

 

 

With great power, comes the need for great skills and some degree of patience. So just like on the Falcon don't afraid to team the GPU up with the DSP and let the pieces of the power pie fall in where they may.....

Oh, I'm getting towards the multithreaded Holy Grail :) Last night I finished the last piece of the puzzle (rendering arbitrary number of objects, each with its own object/worldspace handling) before I can fully try multithreaded rendering on jag (e.g. split the load between GPU and DSP). I will attempt this weekend, for sure, though no idea how far I'll get (but I was writing the GPU code to be easily portable to DSP from the very beginning and avoiding GPU's specifics - just so I can go the multithreading route)...

 

why such a downer always? I wouldn't discourage anyone from learning and expanding outward especially on the Jag...

 

vladr you used to think outside the box and were a positive guy... is everything ok?

Maybe because last night I had another 6-hour "debugging" session discovering yet-another-WTF-RISC-quirk behavior. I really hoped I did enough work on GPU this year to not have another one of those, ever, but looks like I was wrong. The cat's indeed very moody and has still plenty undiscovered behavioral issues :)

 

I don't actually want to discourage anybody, just set the expectations accordingly.

 

 

With great power, comes the need for great skills and some degree of patience.

I'm incredibly impatient, but obsession helps with overriding that :)



#83 peteym5 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 2, 2017 10:36 PM

For the Atari 7800, we already are using that Basic 7800 to do some tests, looking at the samples, and figuring out how to set up screens, sprites, scoreboards, etc. I am already putting a template together. Since the 8-bit sprites were design from bitmap images that can translated to 8-bit data, those same images can be touched up to using 3 colors and saved as PNG files that the 7800 basic uses. Since 7800 Basic allows for assembly components, some programming for the game logic can be bought over.

 

I will not be porting Tempest over to the 5200 since someone else already did it. Since the 7800 only has 4k RAM and TIA sounds, doing Tempest in the near future is unlikely. However, Venture, Delta Space Arena, Megaoids, Amokbots, and Laser Blast are smaller games, and porting them will be much easier. Some of these games may have some extra optional features to take advantage of the system. Like an extended challenger mode for Venture on the 7800 with more stuff on the screen.

 

There is a Basic out for the Jaguar also, that we may be using. I have not had a whole lot of time to look at it. Could also do Dark Basic PC ports and use 24 bit color images for the moving objects. At this point they are called blitter objects rather than sprites and no longer limited to how many can be on the screen or in certain regions of the screen at once.



#84 kiwilove OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 3, 2017 5:56 PM

I wonder if you have thought about working on a Mario styled game (more like Super Mario World (SNES)) - or that of a Megaman game.

Sorry guys - but Rick Dangerous doesn't appeal to me.

These games would be very hard to do on the A8 hardware - due to limited sprites available.

 

There is no easy work around for this inadequacy - you end up with flicker sprites (like in Tales of Dragons and Caveman) or having sprites which have to avoid certain zones because of the flicker issue.  The answer would be software sprites - but they come with their own restrictions and problems/etc.

 

No doubt you are working on other game ideas - but I see that the above games are/have been sorely lacking for the A8 hardware.

 

I don't really play games these days that much - though I still like to work on game graphics designs - for projects I can contribute towards ...

 

Harvey



#85 peteym5 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 6, 2018 5:48 AM

I wonder if you have thought about working on a Mario styled game (more like Super Mario World (SNES)) - or that of a Megaman game.

Sorry guys - but Rick Dangerous doesn't appeal to me.

These games would be very hard to do on the A8 hardware - due to limited sprites available.

 

There is no easy work around for this inadequacy - you end up with flicker sprites (like in Tales of Dragons and Caveman) or having sprites which have to avoid certain zones because of the flicker issue.  The answer would be software sprites - but they come with their own restrictions and problems/etc.

 

No doubt you are working on other game ideas - but I see that the above games are/have been sorely lacking for the A8 hardware.

 

I don't really play games these days that much - though I still like to work on game graphics designs - for projects I can contribute towards ...

 

Harvey

 

The original ideal for Jungle Quest was not only to clone Pitfall or Jungle Hunt, but to make into a platform game like Mario or Sonic. Have the moving platforms along with swinging vines. I already worked on getting around the sprite flickering issue since this game will have "floors" or "levels" connected with ladders. One or two enemies can remain between each floor.

 

I am holding off on doing more games right now in favor of porting some exiting games over to the Atari 7800, like Venture, Delta Space Arena, Putt 18 Miniature Golf, Laser Blast X. These games along with Tempest and Secretum Labyrinth are still available on cartridge from www.atarisales.com. Full versions of the Games will not be available for download, free, digital, or pay-per. Many titles have been ported over to the 5200, we are just waiting for stuff we need to make the cartridges.

 

I do appreciate feedback about doing some future games. I have been working on a sequel to Secretum Labyrinth. There will be a variant of Secretum Labyrinth that will be exclusively available on the 5200 geared to fit with the 32K ROM + 16K RAM. The next 8-bit version, like to add things like using money, markets, weapons upgrades, spells, bosses, larger map of rooms, etc. Along with having a deeper mystery for people to crack inside the game.


Edited by peteym5, Sat Jan 6, 2018 6:26 AM.


#86 peteym5 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:40 AM

I decided to take a small break from porting some games from my existing library to the 7800 and do up some title screens for future Atari cartridge games. I am no longer stating just 8-bit, because I figured how to easily compile a 5200 version and keep all the original graphics images so there is material available for a possible 7800 version. Being able to do game cartridges on multiple platforms is good for me because there is 3 times the chance for a title to make some revenue. Plus if someone is collecting consoles and cartridges, its good for them as well.

 

I decided not to use Lady Bug or Mouse Trap as a title for an upcoming game.  Since there had been an issue with Nintendo cracking down on the 2600 "Princess Rescue." I understand this happened a few times with other home brew games on other platforms. You never know who holds copyrights or who still exists. I for starters decided all future clones games will  have an original titles, along with changes and options to make the game unique. I have another title and I will be announcing it when game development is further along.  So it is blurred out on this title image. 


Edited by peteym5, Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:50 AM.


#87 peteym5 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:25 AM

I have been searching for assistance with making future games since KJMANN decided to no longer work with Video61 and myself. I can say for each game sold on cartridge, you can get up to $5 USD of royalty for doing music, or assisting with graphics. However this is something you will need to contact me via Private Message. If game is distributed by other media and sold for less, such as floppy disks, part of a multicart, or pay-per-download, royalties will also be less. We are no longer restricted to just doing these games for the 8-bit now, as you can see, we are finding ways to port the games to 5200, 7800. I have not yet looked into Commodore 64, Apple II, etc. But  the big one may be porting some to the modern Windows PC ports with original games.

 

Video61 has many cartridge shells and boards in stock for the 8-bit and 7800. We are waiting on some 5200 boards right now. For the 7800, I came up with something that I can duplicate what I do with Antic 4 screens on the 8-bit and draw the same screen on the 7800. I already ported screens for Venture and Putt 18. Will be doing Tile Smashers, Amok Bots, and Secretum Labyrinth in the near future also.

 

I have several different games I am putting together for the Atari 8-bit over the next few years that may become available on cartridge. I decided to restrict myself to programming 2 games per year so I can be more focused to improving the quality of the game and make sure they work properly. I am looking into ZooKeeper, but decided to rename here to Animal Keeper to help avoid any copyright issues. A Klax clone is also in the works. Other games will be announced as I get more work done with them.






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