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Unfortunately I am one of the percentage that can't get access to high speed internet and it seems that the only solution to that where I live is to pull up stakes and move and that takes more money than I currently make. Sorry to have such a cynical tone, but at least where I live, I'm not liking where the current trends in tech are taking us. iPhone zombies, jobs disappearing left and right as stores close (not much else left here), just leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth. I'm sorry, but the shift to download content is finally what chased me away from modern gaming. That and most new games just don't really interest me anymore.

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Unfortunately I am one of the percentage that can't get access to high speed internet and it seems that the only solution to that where I live is to pull up stakes and move and that takes more money than I currently make. Sorry to have such a cynical tone, but at least where I live, I'm not liking where the current trends in tech are taking us. iPhone zombies, jobs disappearing left and right as stores close (not much else left here), just leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth. I'm sorry, but the shift to download content is finally what chased me away from modern gaming. That and most new games just don't really interest me anymore.

It's unfortunate that that's your plight, but being in an extreme minority obviously means you miss out on the trends that the majority enjoys. It's important I think to keep perspective and try and understand why things are moving in the direction that they are with not only the negatives, but also the obvious positives. If not, one is in danger of becoming the equivalent of a Luddite smashing a weaving machine.

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Personally, I still prefer something I can actually hold in my hand over something downloaded. That article about the Japanese is rather interesting as I would have thought them to be even more into downloaded and digital content than us, really. I do understand things getting out of control with a collection, believe me. I am trying to thin down and find some balance with my antique radio collection right now and will be taking some stuff to auction over the weekend. I've always been a sort of tactile experience sort of person you could say. I like the feel, looks, and even smell of game systems and games I play. From that odd little hum Entex Space Invader makes to even the little bit of 'snow' an RF signal makes going into the TV from the game console. For me, there has always been something magical about popping that cart into the slot, flipping the switch, and gripping that controller in anticipation to play. I even have my few arcade games set up to still coin up instead of free play because of that movement I grew so used to and the 'coin-up' sounds most make when you insert the coin (or trip the switch). :)

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I even have my few arcade games set up to still coin up instead of free play because of that movement I grew so used to and the 'coin-up' sounds most make when you insert the coin (or trip the switch). :)

I agree. To me, part of the fun is the act of popping in the coins. My raspberry Pi MAME cab has a fake illuminated "coin insert" button shaped like a real coin slot. If I ever get a garage big enough to populate with real arcade games, I would probably get the coin doors retrofitted to accept tokens instead of quarters, then bulk order my own bag of custom tokens from a supplier and put them in a bowl for myself or guests to use in my machines. When I run low or the coin door gets full, just empty the coin door back into the bowl. Quarters also work equally fine but you would really have to trust any guests you let into your game room not to take them.

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Actually there are a LOT more people locked into crap internet than you think, and yes moving is the only real option for many of us, as in, no real option.

 

Nintendo is probably a poor option to compare digital vs physical sales anyways. Japan, US or otherwise, and honestly, until they let DD content be attached to a profile rather than a console, always will be. I bet a similar comparison on MS or Sony consoles will net different results, especially in Japan where space is at a premium.

 

Personally I prefer physical to digital and always will, but I know I'm in the minority there. Still most people who buy digital don't pay full retail price, so I imagine while digital pushes more units, I bet physical still makes more money.

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Personally I prefer physical to digital and always will, but I know I'm in the minority there. Still most people who buy digital don't pay full retail price, so I imagine while digital pushes more units, I bet physical still makes more money.

 

Not necessarily. There's actually a lot of overhead with physical production and distribution that cuts into profits. With digital, once created, most of the overhead is gone. That's why it's unfortunate when digital costs as much as or more than physical goods. There's just no logical reason for it.

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Personally, I'm not a fan of digital download. After playing through a game, I typically don't touch it ever again unless it's something really special like Super Mario, Smash Bros, or Zelda. So, I sell my games after the first play though. Then I re-invest that money back into another game. This doesn't work with digital only games.

 

Besides, I never buy games when they come out and it's not like new games come with real manuals anyway. There's nothing to gain by buying new over used. So, I can go on eBay and get a two year old game for $10 whereas it's still $30+ on Xbox Live.

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Personally I prefer physical to digital and always will, but I know I'm in the minority there.

 

Do you really think so? I feel like Bill L and myself are literally the only people in this forum who like digital. Online, it seems more like 95% like physical, which is slightly less than the 99.9994% we see here.

 

Which really costs more? Don't know ... I would think manufacturing and shipping would be pretty efficient, and that digital distribution requires data centers and bandwidth.

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Not necessarily. There's actually a lot of overhead with physical production and distribution that cuts into profits. With digital, once created, most of the overhead is gone. That's why it's unfortunate when digital costs as much as or more than physical goods. There's just no logical reason for it.

 

You're right about that. My brother is a producer in the game industry, a third party company for all 3 and also does android, ios, pc too. There's something many people don't think too much about, but ever notice how often Steam sales pop up even on new content where they take it like 25% off, and usually within a few months (4-6~) during a seasonal sale they're like 50% off? He told me that there's a consensus among game makers now that if the US had the same gigabit countrywide service Japan had and you could say this for PAL etc regions as well they'd drop physical media. They don't like it, don't want it, they want to control the media entirely and crush resales as it costs them money as they see it. What stops them is when you get full blu ray (if not double sided blu ray) sized release and it takes maybe a day to days+ to download on our slow ranging services. It's a huge turn off to people and they won't bother, but if gigabit was standard then you could get a game in an hour or two. He said if they could destroy physical media, break down every bit of what that entails with production, shipping, marketing, etc on the physical side of things the savings would be so supposedly severe that your usual $60 games should cost 1/2 that and they'd still profit comfortably. For older stuff they could slice down some bigger deals for random sales to entice fence sitters as well.

 

I kind of believe it, but the trade off is 100% unpalatable to me given I rarely replay much, and I don't have a lot of $ lying around so I tend to sell to get. I like to control how I use my stuff or get rid of it as do others here seeing the comments. But in time that is how it will go, once the speeds are there consistently globally in the gaming centric areas.

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I don't really see the US getting its act together and giving us gigabit service anytime soon. We have so many hurdles to even try that here. For one thing, the US is much, much bigger than Japan and our communications companies are too interested in giving the crappiest service for the highest dollar for that to ever work.

I have to admit, the thought of companies being able to eliminate physical media and control what we see and watch totally sort of scares me. 1984 anyone? I like the choice of being able to trade in and sell stuff I am bored with as well and being able to enjoy something else that another person has grown bored with at a reasonable cost.

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I don't really see the US getting its act together and giving us gigabit service anytime soon. We have so many hurdles to even try that here.

5G wireless will probably do it for most people, hopefully without stupid caps on everything.

 

Like you say, the US is so spread out, it's hard to wire everything up.

 

I've had fiber to my home since 2003, but only just this month got affordable gigabit service.

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I've got fiber too but it's not very fast compared to various other areas. Out west my parents have lame time warner/comcast and they get insane speeds for around what I pay, I'm talking up there around that 100-115mbps mark and i'm stuck at 14 or so which is fine for HD streaming and stuff, but the comparison on a download was insane. I know my area upped the plan a bit higher than it was, but I wonder if the old area it is just has it stuck at this point as it seems to stop at 50mbps with a 1TB/mo cap on it. They have a d/l calculator on their site, I imagine it's probably somewhat accurate. Maxing out all their bars except 4K which I don't do, I'd just fall a few GB under 1TB of monthly usage.

 

Sling TV is looking mighty tempting to save some serious cash. I'm at $142/yr because I threatened to quit, expiring in just about 2 weeks and then it will fire up just over $200 if I remember right for 14mbps internet, TV with DVR capability in 3 rooms, and a landline that mostly gets called from spam scumbags. SlingTV is $20/mo, then you need to add about another $10-20 to get the few channels we watch here, throw that $50 internet package on there and I'm looking at $90(100? taxes) vs $200+.

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I've got fiber too but it's not very fast compared to various other areas. Out west my parents have lame time warner/comcast and they get insane speeds for around what I pay, I'm talking up there around that 100-115mbps mark and i'm stuck at 14 or so which is fine for HD streaming and stuff, but the comparison on a download was insane. I know my area upped the plan a bit higher than it was, but I wonder if the old area it is just has it stuck at this point as it seems to stop at 50mbps with a 1TB/mo cap on it. They have a d/l calculator on their site, I imagine it's probably somewhat accurate. Maxing out all their bars except 4K which I don't do, I'd just fall a few GB under 1TB of monthly usage.

 

Sling TV is looking mighty tempting to save some serious cash. I'm at $142/yr because I threatened to quit, expiring in just about 2 weeks and then it will fire up just over $200 if I remember right for 14mbps internet, TV with DVR capability in 3 rooms, and a landline that mostly gets called from spam scumbags. SlingTV is $20/mo, then you need to add about another $10-20 to get the few channels we watch here, throw that $50 internet package on there and I'm looking at $90(100? taxes) vs $200+.

My fiance and I live in the same city. We both have ATT Uverse. I live in a house with my mom and she lives in an apartment. I get 6Mbs; she gets 50. We both pay the same amount.

 

I'm a few blocks away from an ATT datacenter (formerly owned by bellsouth, where we've kept the same landline phone number for 30+ years) but there's 7000 feet of twisted pair cabling between it and my house, which was installed back in the 60s. Before we got DSL (later Uverse) we still commonly got annoying analog static on the analog lines. The fact this wiring which was installed in the 1960s is capable of supplying anything over the 50+ kbs bandwidth of analog sound is a miracle. Our bandwidth is limted to 6Mbs, unless they rip out and replace the 7000+ feet of telephone wire to our house and every other house in the neighborhood. Last year ATT attempted a free upgrade to 21Mbs and our router failed to connect at that bandwidth and we had to get a technician out to reset it and throttle it back down to 6Mbs.

 

So even people in urban areas get shafted sometimes, and that's to say nothing of people living in rural communities 30 miles south of here with no DSL, no cable, and have to rely on dial up, extremely expensive and laggy satellite (with dial up based uplink), or 3G/4G with severe monthy data caps. Many rural areas still don't have 4G service either. Back on topic, I lost 30+ VR points due to random disconnects trying to race online in MarioKart between 4-6pm last Friday. Once I was in first place, halfway through the third lap of Mario Circuit with a wide lead, and my network disconnected! :mad: Lesson learned, I have to do my online gaming either late at night or before the afternoon rush hour starts, when most people are at work or in bed. This is due to congestion and lag upwards on the network, not local wifi congestion which apartment dwellers have to deal with. And my house does not suffer from 2.4Ghz network congestion like my fiance's, because there is ample yard space and brick walls between homes.

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My wiring is from 1955-1960 in this area. I'm just out of optimal range from the box, I pay for 18mbps max and I get 14 here. When I called them my area is rated for 50 but said I'd end up with 45.

 

True funny thing is I ditched Time Warner as they dared to screw me over on my work line 2 years ago, ditched them in about 2 hours time as ATT was fast to get me going. TWC had me at a higher plan speed wise on cable, yet performance wise it was slower than the fiber optic which was amusing to me.

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When I say I prefer physical though I actually mean it. I see lots of people say they want physical, but "I'll get digital if I have to" inevitably slips in. I might get digital if I already have a physical copy for the same system, or if its free. If its only digital and costs money, yeah, their loosing my money.

 

As for physical's supposed overhead...what overhead? Most the cost is developing the game, and that's the same regardless of the format it goes to. As for the disc, I can make one offs for sub $5 (that covers the disc, case, artwork, and manual. You can bet someone mass producing them by the hundreds of thousands or millions can certainly beat that. I know the game companies want you to believe it costs in the range of $40 to make a disc (just look it up) but that is simply false.

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As for physical's supposed overhead...what overhead? Most the cost is developing the game, and that's the same regardless of the format it goes to. As for the disc, I can make one offs for sub $5 (that covers the disc, case, artwork, and manual. You can bet someone mass producing them by the hundreds of thousands or millions can certainly beat that. I know the game companies want you to believe it costs in the range of $40 to make a disc (just look it up) but that is simply false.

 

It's not supposed overhead. There is overhead, period. You have to estimate correctly the number of units, said units need to be shipped to retailers, retailers get their cut, etc. There are a lot of moving parts when working with retailers to carry physical goods. There's a lot less going on when doing digital. While you may not like it as a consumer, I guarantee you publishers much prefer it.

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Video you're sadly misinformed on that if you think the production ends to make a physical release are just overhead. I worked for Midway 15 years ago and in my area we mostly tested the hell out of stuff, but also worked on various things like gameplay tweaks, manual construction, voting on layout/suggestions on box and manual art and more. We also got to see the process involved in approval and mastering a physical release. There's overhead. And yet you are right too, it doesn't cost someone $40 to make just the disc, but there's much more behind it vs a nebulous download to your console/handheld of choice.

 

You need employees who can create a manual from nothing. You have to collate all the information, lay outs, designs, artworks and the rest. Then you send it through a drafting machine to make a sample and then tweak again and again as needed until it is right. All that alone costs time, money, and man hours...just for a paper manual and box art. Then let's take it another step further, your'e right you could make a ghetto ass knockoff for like $5, and yes a disc itself the plastic costs pennies to the dollar. But if you're running 100k or 1M copies of a game, those pennies add up. But more so, the plastics for the game itself and the box. The paper for the manual, slip art, and also the inking to the discs too.

 

Now you have a completed game right? Do magical fairies make it appear at the store? Nope. You need to pay even more people who made all those things, to put them through a machine or by hand jam them and tape them up in box after box. The more people are involved from point to point shipping...shippers, pilots, package handlers, inventory checkers, etc. Well that got it to (example) Gamestops distribution center of an area. Then they need to get that box and go one step further onto their shippers truck to every single store in the area. More people, more fuel, hours, costs.

 

So yeah, you're full of it, there's overhead and I'm simplifying it with that much. I don't like it any more than you do, but don't get delusional there's no costs.

 

That's why I said I'm totally happy paying like a $10 premium on a physical game vs a digital lease. I get something real, and I control it. I live by that, hell I paid and waited 3 weeks for it to come into stock then ship ot me I Am Setsuna from Asia for the SWITCH. I wasn't having it with digital garbage when I had the option.

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Well said Tanooki. It is unbelievable the number of people involved for a product to reach it's destination. Mind boggling too that shipping a parcel halfway around the globe costs as little as it does. You pay this overhead for physical goods in some fashion whether you buy retail or online.

 

But the product is yours. You may not own the game code itself but you own the media (disc, cart, or card) it is stored on. First sale doctrine comes into play here. If you decide you do not want your physical game anymore, you are free to resell, trade it in, exchange it for something else, and it's available for someone else to buy or collect years down the road. Physical distribution only begins with you.

 

With digital distribution, the distribution ends with your console. You don't "own" anything besides the piece of hardware you downloaded it on. You're buying a lease on the game with no concrete expiry date, until service is revoked by the provider, or servers shut down, and your hardware breaks. You cannot transfer your lease to another gamer, nor can you get credit back for your purchase, unless it can be proven that said purchase was unauthorized or in error.

 

Digital games get pulled from the marketplace all the time, and it is gone forever, except through locally stored copies. There is absolutely no legal recourse to play games which were downloaded through a terminated service, unless one resorts to software piracy. No kid is going to be able to pick up and play his or her favorite digital game title twenty sone odd years from now, because it will have ceased to exist.

 

Yet with the old model of physical distribution, games can be cherished and passed down from one generation of gamers to the next, and all software titles, whether licenses have expired or the hardware is no longer produced or marketed, experience second life on the used game market.

 

Everyone in this forum is a retrogamer in some form or fashion, and anyone who gives a damn about the legacy of gaming going forward into the future should do their part by purchasing physical games. Show the game companies there is still a market for physical copies, so future generations can appreciate them. Buying digital is investing into a disposable commodities future, toss and replace, where noone gives a flying fudge about preservation.

 

Support future generations of retro gamers. Buy physical whenever the option to do so presents itself. This PSA brought to you by Kosmic Stardust.

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Well said Tanooki. It is unbelievable the number of people involved for a product to reach it's destination. Mind boggling too that shipping a parcel halfway around the globe costs as little as it does. You pay this overhead for physical goods in some fashion whether you buy retail or online.

 

But the product is yours. You may not own the game code itself but you own the media (disc, cart, or card) it is stored on. First sale doctrine comes into play here. If you decide you do not want your physical game anymore, you are free to resell, trade it in, exchange it for something else, and it's available for someone else to buy or collect years down the road. Physical distribution only begins with you.

 

With digital distribution, the distribution ends with your console. You don't "own" anything besides the piece of hardware you downloaded it on. You're buying a lease on the game with no concrete expiry date, until service is revoked by the provider, or servers shut down, and your hardware breaks. You cannot transfer your lease to another gamer, nor can you get credit back for your purchase, unless it can be proven that said purchase was unauthorized or in error.

 

Digital games get pulled from the marketplace all the time, and it is gone forever, except through locally stored copies. There is absolutely no legal recourse to play games which were downloaded through a terminated service, unless one resorts to software piracy. No kid is going to be able to pick up and play his or her favorite digital game title twenty sone odd years from now, because it will have ceased to exist.

 

Yet with the old model of physical distribution, games can be cherished and passed down from one generation of gamers to the next, and all software titles, whether licenses have expired or the hardware is no longer produced or marketed, experience second life on the used game market.

 

Everyone in this forum is a retrogamer in some form or fashion, and anyone who gives a damn about the legacy of gaming going forward into the future should do their part by purchasing physical games. Show the game companies there is still a market for physical copies, so future generations can appreciate them. Buying digital is investing into a disposable commodities future, toss and replace, where noone gives a flying fudge about preservation.

 

Support future generations of retro gamers. Buy physical whenever the option to do so presents itself. This PSA brought to you by Kosmic Stardust.

 

You explained perfectly what I don't like about digital. If those inconveniences weren't there then I would be all for digital. For an example, if a download came with the same conveniences as downloading a ROM for my Harmony Cart. I can play it on any Atari VCS, I can move it from one Harmony Cart to another if the first breaks, I can play it in Stella, etc. I can download a game that is over 30 years old with the convenience of it being completely portable from one device to another which gives me the ability to own it forever. Digital distribution with its DRM, servers, etc. doesn't have those same conveniences and has some things that are very inconvenient.

 

Digital distribution affects my gaming and buying habits. With physical games sometimes there is one that I will play addictively for days, sometimes it is just like that but then I put the game away for years until I get the itch to addictively play it for days again, sometimes I play a game in little couple hour sessions, play it in little sessions over the years, and complete it years later, sometimes I buy a game with no intention on playing it the day I bought it but just buy it because I intend on eventually playing it which could be 10 years from then, etc.

 

I mean, most of the games I own I haven't completely beat, the ones I have I'm still not completely done with because I still want to play them again, there are all kinds of retro games going 40 years or more back that I eventually would like to buy and play, etc. But it isn't like that with digitally distributed games. Instead of owned they feel like rentals with an unknown date on when the lease is over. That changes my gaming and buying habits completely because it puts pressure on me to not do any impulse purchases, to make sure that I only buy games that I'm sure I will at least beat with 100% completion sometime soon, and if I'm wrong on my judgement of the game being one I would beat with 100% completion sometime soon then I still feel pressure to make sure I beat it soon anyway which makes it feel more like I'm just doing it to get my money's worth instead of for the fun of it because I'm trying to beat it not at my normal pace but according to the publisher's watch.

 

It also makes the games feel way too expensive. For an example, if I bought a physical game for $60 then that comes with the convenience of moving it to any number of gaming devices I want which may be absolutely necessary if the original gaming device breaks and it potentially comes with a lifetime of playtime to play it whenever I want at my own pace. But with the same $60 game but the digital version I can only play it on the amount of devices the publisher chooses and my length of rental is entirely unknown. That makes the digital version feel like it should be worth less because I'm getting less. It could be decades less for this rental compared to if it were physical and if I'm paying a decades price then I should get decades out of it.

 

It also makes people less likely to take risks for both publishers and me the consumer. For me the consumer, I have to be sure I am buying from a company that is going to be around for a long time and buy the games I think are most likely to get the most amount of support to increase the likelihood that my rental will be for a long time. For the publishers, if it is a new one then it has to be sure that it is going to be successful to give me the consumer that confidence that they will be around along time as well as the confidence of the developers developing for them. The OUYA is a perfect example of this. I took a big risk investing in them. It is very likely that very soon my OUYA will be partially bricked if not entirely because OUYA is dying and is already effectively the walking dead. But if instead of digital distribution they had something like Game Cards like the Switch then them dying wouldn't be an issue for me. They would just be like Atari, dead but I can still enjoy them. There is really no risk that way and a feeling that I desperately want them to succeed. And for OUYA they had to be sure that they would succeed but since they weren't and it showed I didn't take as many risks as I would have because I would have bought even more games if they kept my consumer confidence high. The same for developers. If they were confident that OUYA was going to succeed then more of them would have submitted more games which would cause more sales which would have made OUYA's chances of success higher. In other words, taking out the willingness of everyone to take risks makes it more likely that the big gaming corporations and major AAA developers will go pretty much unchallenged indefinitely without much new blood trying to enter the market to compete like the old days which is bad for me the consumer because there could be potential gaming innovations and games that I would miss out on that otherwise I wouldn't if the major corporations weren't using digital distribution to lock me in while also locking competition out with their locked down always online DRM digital distribution boxes.

 

So, I don't think those of us who prefer physical just don't get it when it comes to the conveniences of not having to carry and store a bunch of physical media. We do get it. Pretty much every gaming device with physical media having or people wanting flash carts and similar solutions are evidence of this. We just don't want to lose the conveniences that come with physical in exchange for these new conveniences. We don't want to download and rent. We want to download and own.

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Poor little Ouya. I haven't booted mine in months. Are the online servers still up? I also downloaded a metric ton of free games last year incase the servers shut down, but now there's so much crap on it takes forever to load or find the title I'm looking for. I have a 32Gb flash drive sticking out the back btw.

 

Also OT but you were one of the mods on Ouyaforums last I checked. Are they still active much over there or pretty quiet?

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You need employees who can create a manual from nothing.

I would think that creating a manual would be cheaper than creating an in-game tutorial and if a game already has an in-game tutorial then the physical version doesn't require a manual. Also, I would think that money on the box art could be saved if the icon for the digital version is designed to also work as the box art. I may be nitpicking some but it seems like savings could be made by designing things for both. There may also be some things about the physical version that would pay for some of the cost. For an example, having the game in a store's weekly catalog and on the shelves for customers to see would be free advertising.

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Poor little Ouya. I haven't booted mine in months. Are the online servers still up? I also downloaded a metric ton of free games last year incase the servers shut down, but now there's so much crap on it takes forever to load or find the title I'm looking for. I have a 32Gb flash drive sticking out the back btw.

 

Also OT but you were one of the mods on Ouyaforums last I checked. Are they still active much over there or pretty quiet?

 

Yes, still up.

 

It is just as dead as the last time you were there.

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As for physical's supposed overhead...what overhead? Most the cost is developing the game, and that's the same regardless of the format it goes to. As for the disc, I can make one offs for sub $5 (that covers the disc, case, artwork, and manual. You can bet someone mass producing them by the hundreds of thousands or millions can certainly beat that. I know the game companies want you to believe it costs in the range of $40 to make a disc (just look it up) but that is simply false.

 

This is one of the most "facepalm worthy" posts I've read here in a while..

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I see you lumped in shipping etc with production, I don't as the buyer, not the developer pays for that. Like I said, unknowledgable people can be fooled into thinking its a LOT higher than it actually is.

 

Manuel's are still made, most games still have digital ones, there's no real difference there either, so is "box art" (having your game stand out is still equally important in the digital environment).

 

I think someone thatmissed (either through lack of comprehension, or just the intent to attempt to start shit) the part where I said a few bucks for everything.

 

Let me just throw this out there, if production costs for physical media is so high, why can some people produce and sell a game for $10-$20? I can assure you they don't sell at a loss.

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