New Atari Console that Ataribox?

[leech]

 

Wow, someone who is an ataribox thread that is not talking trash like fox news. Wow! Good job.

 

Now, 3d and VR are basically the same thing. the engine just renders out 2 screens for VR. The head tracker just moves the camera around to where you are looking. That stuff is done by the engine or plugins. However, when you do a 2.5 game (that's a game that is done in 3d but the camera stays in a place), there are issues.

 

• The first is the amount of assets you have to create or buy. Tons and tons of it. This costs a lot.
• Next is the frame rate. The engine must render out in 3 dimensions. You need to get to 60 fps. Doing this on a cell phone is tough.
• Also, there is storage. Instead of 100meg game you have a 5gb one. When you publish on google play store, they limit the size to 100mb for download (and you can split up the binary and go over).

So if someone wants to do a game, he has to think about these things. If you publish on Windows with a joystick and keyboard, can you also publish on IOS and Android with a touch screen? This allows more sales being cross platform. So as far as games go, having a 2d/3d concentrated games pack on Ataribox would be better I think. You'd get arcade type games. Then after a year the publisher could put them on other platforms. But if you went VR, you just couldn't do that. Also, Atari doesn't have the money to do the VR hardware anyways,

Maybe because I stopped watching Fox when they canceled Firefly, and never really watched the news there

 

Ha, I guess one could argue the 2d/3d/vr thing, since they are for the most part all 2d images arranged around in various ways to make them appear as real 3D objects. We still are talking texture mapped polygons. But you're right, VR pretty much is two images at slightly different angles, so require at least double the power, not to mention it also requires framerates to be 90fps or you start to get rather ill. It's terrible when you're playing a VR game and the system crashes... The entire universe freezes in front of your eyes and your first reaction of course is to move (because the audio also freaks out and makes you jump) so now instead of just a high pitched scream in your ear that the computer locked up, you have the fun feeling of moving without moving... the headset comes off and you're disoriented. yes, I've had this happen a few times playing E:D.

 

By the way, don't people usually get around that 100mb limit on mobile devices by having it download the textures and such as it's installing? I've seen many Android games do that (never owned an iOS device, so don't know how that handles it). It's basically the same equivalent as having a 10mb installer on Windows that then downloads a huge chunk of data.

 

Of course it has to do with hardware. Underpowered hardware can never run any kind of VR that will be satisfactory.

 

Compare PSVR capabilities of the basic PS4 and the PS4 pro then go to a gaming PC with a VR kit like Vive for example.

 

Regardless, Atari isn't really in the financial position to start experimenting with VR since they apparently need to crowdfund the entire system to begin with...

Anyone know the performance difference with the PSVR and using it on a PS4 vs a PS4 Pro? Was almost considering getting one, even though I already have a Vive

[leech]

 

Damned for no communication, damned for communicating.

Ha, well I think that comes down to 'we want specs' and they give us a joystick, which admittedly was like one of the first things I asked. I mean any game console should come with a controller.. It's like the people reading the thread are 100 pages behind.

 

How's the wife today? Hopefully not in pain anymore?

[Flojomojo]

I just noticed this quote on the Ataribox website. Did this Markus S. guy get some inside info on the actual release date? I almost believe they could get this thing out in 5 years.

I doubt it. This happy fella on their facebook page gave it "four out of five stars."

 

 

We all bring our experiences (and baggage) to our impression of Atari. We all have different expectations of what they have delivered, can deliver, and will deliver in the future.

 

I would simply like to point out that the original Atari in Sunnyvale CA had access to a lot more taco shops than the whole city of Paris where current Atari is located.

 

[PlaysWithWolves]

 

Wow, someone who is an ataribox thread that is not talking trash like fox news. Wow! Good job.

 

I realize this is your go-to joke at parties, but it would have more impact if you weren't so intent upon serious discussion over a possibly-fake product of which we know very little.

I don't begrudge you for dreaming or wishcasting, but many of us have already ridden this ride. It behooves Atari to prove us wrong.

 

[The Historian]

Ha, well I think that comes down to 'we want specs' and they give us a joystick, which admittedly was like one of the first things I asked. I mean any game console should come with a controller.. It's like the people reading the thread are 100 pages behind.

I get that. There is plenty I wish I could tell everyone, but I can't.

 

How's the wife today? Hopefully not in pain anymore?

She is well. Lots of anti-inflammatories and muscle relaxers. But that is much better than a kidney stone or Gallstones.

[BiffsGamingVideos]

Maybe because I stopped watching Fox when they canceled Firefly, and never really watched the news there

 

Ha, I guess one could argue the 2d/3d/vr thing, since they are for the most part all 2d images arranged around in various ways to make them appear as real 3D objects. We still are talking texture mapped polygons. But you're right, VR pretty much is two images at slightly different angles, so require at least double the power, not to mention it also requires framerates to be 90fps or you start to get rather ill. It's terrible when you're playing a VR game and the system crashes... The entire universe freezes in front of your eyes and your first reaction of course is to move (because the audio also freaks out and makes you jump) so now instead of just a high pitched scream in your ear that the computer locked up, you have the fun feeling of moving without moving... the headset comes off and you're disoriented. yes, I've had this happen a few times playing E:D.

 

By the way, don't people usually get around that 100mb limit on mobile devices by having it download the textures and such as it's installing? I've seen many Android games do that (never owned an iOS device, so don't know how that handles it). It's basically the same equivalent as having a 10mb installer on Windows that then downloads a huge chunk of data.

 

Anyone know the performance difference with the PSVR and using it on a PS4 vs a PS4 Pro? Was almost considering getting one, even though I already have a Vive

 

The google play store has a 100mb limit. You can set unity to split the binary. So the first is like 30mb and the 2nd is 400mb. They allow 2 more files up to 2gb I THINK. The 2nd one is the one you could use and the 3rd one is some backup for updates so you don't have to redo the entire binary. So you can get around it with Unity. Not sure what other engines do that. I have used BASIC4Android and have not seen a way to do it there.

[leech]

I doubt it. This happy fella on their facebook page gave it "four out of five stars."

 

not so smart.PNG

 

We all bring our experiences (and baggage) to our impression of Atari. We all have different expectations of what they have delivered, can deliver, and will deliver in the future.

 

I would simply like to point out that the original Atari in Sunnyvale CA had access to a lot more taco shops than the whole city of Paris where current Atari is located.

 

Original American Atari has many tacos.PNG French Atari has few tacos.PNG

This post literally made me laugh out loud.

 

I looked up who currently resides in the old Atari location, and it's apparently Juniper. So we know who is more Taco-wise out of those two companies!

[JBerel]

Damned for no communication, damned for communicating.

 

Damned for poor communication. It's the teasing that's unforgivable to me. Everything they keep putting out sure looks more like snake oil salesman tactics. Why not simply show the box, the controller and a TV connected together and running something. That would be so much easier than the coy "look at this, but not too close" stuff they keep staging. I'm not saying there's a conspiracy, but they're going to an awful lot of trouble to not simply show what they claim to have. I gotta wonder why.

 

P.S. - Hope the Mrs. feels better soon.

Edited November 30, 2017 by JBerel

[leech]

I get that. There is plenty I wish I could tell everyone, but I can't.

 

She is well. Lots of anti-inflammatories and muscle relaxers. But that is much better than a kidney stone or Gallstones.

Guess we could start discussing the CommodoreBox.

 

Good to hear! I once was told I had a kidney stone, and after the relaxers and such they said it'd just pee out, but either I missed it or it was really small, but HOLY CRAP that pain is something I could have lived my entire life without ever having to experienced....

[BiffsGamingVideos]

Ha, well I think that comes down to 'we want specs' and they give us a joystk, which admittedly was like one of the first things I asked. I mean any game console should come with a controller.. It's like the people reading the thread are 100 pages behind.

 

How's the wife today? Hopefully not in pain anymore?

 

This is so funny. When Microsoft or Nintendo announce the system, it's just vaporware. Do you remember the N64? Nintendo announced it at the CES as 'Project Reality'. It was running a demo and people were blown away. Then someone looked under the table and saw a silicon valley workstation. Obviously, not the same system.

 

Back around 2000-2001 I tried to get a job at EA Tiburon (Nascar, Madden, Tiger Woods, NCAA....) as a tester overt the summer. I just lost a job and thought it might be kind of cool. They had a written test you had to fill out. This is so when they say you are to old, they can pull up the test and show the lawyer you just didn't know what was going on. So anywho, one of the questions was 'how much memory will the new Nintendo system have". Well, I failed the test. As I was being led out of the building, the guy say I aced the PC part, but failed the console part. My response was the Nintendo system (gamecube) wasn't going to be out for over a year so no one knows. and besides, who would know that or would care? (BTW: I think I didn't get it because of my age. The only people left in the room were 18-21 year olds).

 

So it's common to announce systems without the specs of the hardware being finalized. This is a common practice.

Edited November 30, 2017 by BiffsGamingVideos

[leech]

Damned for poor communication. It's the teasing that's unforgivable to me. Everything they keep putting out sure looks more like snake oil salesman tactics. Why not simply show the box, the controller and a TV connected together and running something. That would be so much easier than the coy "look at this, but not too close" stuff they keep staging. I'm not saying there's a conspiracy, but they're going to an awful lot of trouble to not simply show what they claim to have. I gotta wonder why.

 

P.S. - Hope the Mrs. feels better soon.

So here's the timeline..

 

They claim they'd been working on something for years... and we get a little teaser video.

Months go by, a ton of 'Why AtariBox has failed!' or 'Why AtariBox can succeed!' (love the past/future tense there for something that isn't marketed yet). Then we get some more teases, confirmation that it's AMD/Radeon based, and that it'll be crowdfunded.

more months go by... we get a joystick video.

 

What they should have done (if this was indeed years in the making like they claim), is to have the damn thing just about ready, THEN tease the thing, and have a month, two at the max before releasing the information for the crowdfunding. But here's the dumb thing, prototyping isn't all that cheap (I guess we can confirm that from any of the people working on projects here at AtariAge, like the wonderful 1088XEL). So if what they claimed was true, they would have been spending some money / time toward that from quite some time ago.

 

But that could potentially mean whatever hardware is planned to be inside the AtariBox could be as old as the PS4 anyhow. But... and here's the big BUT. It was in Q3 that AMD stated in their earnings a deal with Atari. Anyone look to see if there was any mention before that? Sounds to me like Atari did the teaser, shopped around a bit, found AMD willing then made the deal (I think the initial email they sent out was Q2, so they could have started talks then, most likely.)

 

This sounds like they literally threw out the teaser, had a bunch of people make guesses about it, then started building around those guesses. I mean quite a few of us were guessing that they'd use Linux as a simple out of box OS without having to hire a bunch of programmers, then they announced open system with Linux...

 

Hey, if they want to just build the system we want... I'm all for that. It's not like they have a bunch of stoners showing up to program for them like they did in the mid-70s to early 80s.

 

Which coincidentally is probably why they had so many taco places near them!

[JBerel]

This is so funny. When Microsoft or Nintendo announce the system, it's just vaporware. Do you remember the N64? Nintendo announced it at the CES as 'Project Reality'. It was running a demo and people were blown away. Then someone looked under the table and saw a silicon valley workstation. Obviously, not the same system.

...

So it's common to announce systems without the specs of the hardware being finalized. This is a common practice.

Yes, and when they announce those systems, they didn't ask anyone to pre-fund them. Nor did Nintendo defraud anyone by running their forthcoming game software on the Silicon Graphics (not silicon valley) platform which is what they built the N64 on. The point to this thread is that there's an entire community of potential customers at least interested in what Atari says they want to bring to market. With the announcement of the Indiegogo nonsense, and the silly no-substance marketing tactics, they have irritated more people than they have engaged at this point. This is a non-starter until it can be clearly demonstrated to not be another scam fundraiser.

Edited November 30, 2017 by JBerel

[leech]

 

This is so funny. When Microsoft or Nintendo announce the system, it's just vaporware. Do you remember the N64? Nintendo announced it at the CES as 'Project Reality'. It was running a demo and people were blown away. Then someone looked under the table and saw a silicon valley workstation. Obviously, not the same system.

 

Back around 2000-2001 I tried to get a job at EA Tiburon (Nascar, Madden, Tiger Woods, NCAA....) as a tester overt the summer. I just lost a job and thought it might be kind of cool. They had a written test you had to fill out. This is so when they say you are to old, they can pull up the test and show the lawyer you just didn't know what was going on. So anywho, one of the questions was 'how much memory will the new Nintendo system have". Well, I failed the test. As I was being led out of the building, the guy say I aced the PC part, but failed the console part. My response was the Nintendo system (gamecube) wasn't going to be out for over a year so no one knows. and besides, who would know that or would care? (BTW: I think I didn't get it because of my age. The only people left in the room were 18-21 year olds).

 

So it's common to announce systems without the specs of the hardware being finalized. This is a common practice.

Ha, I guess at CES everything goes? If I recall, the first Amiga wasn't even a computer when they first showed it, it was in some room where only specific people were invited, and it was still on breadboards and wired up all funky, but the ball was bouncing.

 

Ageism in the video game industry is a real thing, for sure. I guess they figure 18-21 year old kids are still going to be mostly jobless and living in their parent's basements so have a ton of time to play test games?

[leech]

Yes, and when they announce those systems, they didn't ask anyone to pre-fund them. Nor did Nintendo defraud anyone by running their forthcoming game software on the Silicon Graphics (not silicon valley) platform which is what they built the N64 on. The point to this thread is that there's an entire community of potential customers at least interested in what Atari says they want to bring to market. With the announcement of the Indiegogo nonsense, and the silly no-substance marketing tactics, they have irritated more people than they have engaged at this point. This is a non-starter until it can be clearly demonstrated to not be another scam fundraiser.

I don't know about not defrauding anyone, that video represents graphics far better than anything I ever saw on the N64. If I recall, it was based on a very low end SGI custom chip.

 

Too bad SGI eventually died off, and now all we have are AMD APUs in all the current game systems. (At least I think that is also what's in the Switch?)

[Atariboy2600]

Atari Board Members: Gentlemen we found our new ATARIBOX spokesperson.....

 

 

[MrMaddog]

 

This is so funny. When Microsoft or Nintendo announce the system, it's just vaporware. Do you remember the N64? Nintendo announced it at the CES as 'Project Reality'. It was running a demo and people were blown away. Then someone looked under the table and saw a silicon valley workstation. Obviously, not the same system.

 

Yeah I remember that... All we had to go on about the "Ultra 64" were the arcade games Killer Instinct & Crusin' USA, which did not use the same hardware (except for sharing the same 64-bit CPU). Not to mention thet KI was ported to the 16-bit SNES using the same pre-rendered characters. And when the N64 did come out, instead of this super SGI workstation for the home we got yet another 3D game system but had blurry tri-linear filtering. The Nintendo kids still loved it so that's all that mattered I suppose. Everyone else moved on to Playstation which was out currently for a while...

 

tl;rd Too much hype over a long period of time can kill a product.

[BiffsGamingVideos]

Yes, and when they announce those systems, they didn't ask anyone to pre-fund them. Nor did Nintendo defraud anyone by running their forthcoming game software on the Silicon Graphics (not silicon valley) platform which is what they built the N64 on. The point to this thread is that there's an entire community of potential customers at least interested in what Atari says they want to bring to market. With the announcement of the Indiegogo nonsense, and the silly no-substance marketing tactics, they have irritated more people than they have engaged at this point. This is a non-starter until it can be clearly demonstrated to not be another scam fundraiser.

 

Noone has asked you to prefund the ataribox. IT'S NOT ON INDIGOGOGOGOGOG YET! When it is, then you'd expect specs. What Atari did was industry practice. Announce something to gain interest. As far as defrauding anyone, then yes Nintendo did. They got every magazine to show off their new amazing system to make money. That is the very definition of fraud. Also, Nintendo said the arcade versions of games would be identical to the home versions like Killer Instint. A lot of people bought the system just for that. and no, the arcade and home versions were not the same. So they all do this.

 

if you look at my CES videos, like the 1994 SCES one, you will see games that did not make it to market or were changed (battlezone 2000 for the Jaguar). This is just normal.

Edited November 30, 2017 by BiffsGamingVideos

[Flojomojo]

Nintendo 64 launched in 1996

(checks watch, calendar)

That's more than 20 years ago, fella

[BiffsGamingVideos]

 

tl;rd Too much hype over a long period of time can kill a product.

 

Like the occulus rift.

[PlaysWithWolves]

It's déjà vu, all over again.

 

From the Coleco Chamelon thread:

 

 

This is just my opinion and I wanted to share it, I am in no way trying to inflame anyone here on this board, I really do respect everyone's opinion here.

 

I have been following this saga for some time now, ever since the Retro version. I am actually looking forward to seeing how this is going to turn out due to this environment, its very interesting.

 

I originally was quite interested in this console, but the more I heard about it, the more suspicious I became.

 

However, having said that there is a point / observation I wanted to make.

 

I have worked in the video game industry for around 8 years before opening my classic game store back in 2007. I used to work for Sony and for IGN GameSpy.

 

Here is an observation I have made while attending E3's over the years, GDC's, and developer symposiums..

 

 

It is not all that unprecedented for a video game company to use hardware other than theirs during development.

 

Sony utilized a big "pyramid" hiding its contents at E3 with only a controller wire coming out of it showing off the PS2 before it was still early in development. In reality it was just a PC people were playing on. It wasn't until the next E3 did people actually see the hardware.

 

In Coleco chameleon case, it really looks like they used a mini SNES.. and it appears that Mike is saying they made changes to the board and cannot show it. All of that is may or may not be true, but my point is that this practice of using other hardware is not all that unusual. Would people have felt better if they were using a PC?

 

I watched those videos of those guys on mics bashing the console for a bunch of valid reasons I can agree with. They made one point however that I wanted to discuss and that the chameleon is only supposed to come with a few games per cart... as opposed to what? The entire library? I am not sure this personally makes sense to me. I don't remember my friends telling me their Xbox One or Playstation 4 came with any games, much less 6 to 15. Would l like more games to come with the Coleco? Sure, I would love the entire library, but I realize that may not be feasible for a litany of reasons.

 

As far as I am concerned I am going to wait to see the final version (if there is one) before I throw any stones and see what they have. I am afraid there is a lot of angry people who would like to lynch the company right now. Maybe I missed something but did any of these angry bloodthirsty people invest and lose money in this? Are these people just acting like public defenders and trying to take down the company before consumers can make up their own minds? There a tons of good and terrible products out there and I am sure many of us have both of those types in our collections but this is ok. People like to buy things and if this thing ever comes out, it will just be another option for people to consider and either buy or not buy.

 

People like to think talk is everything but in the end we all vote with our wallet.

 

I personally am going to wait to see what they finally have and then decide if it something I am interested in buying.

 

Of course these are just my opinions and I am in no way trying to flame anyone else opinions here, who I really do respect.

 

[+KaeruYojimbo]

Atari teased this thing assuming we'd all wet ourselves with excitement over the prospect of a new Atari console. And some people did. But a lot of people, not unreasonably, want to know what the thing does. When a new Nintendo console is announced, we know what it's gonna do. Maybe not the specifics, but we know it's gonna play Nintendo games. We don't know what the Ataribox will do. Will it play old games? New games? Is it compatible with all Linux software, or only certain Atari-made games? How will the games be distributed? Is it going to be on the same level as other consoles on the market, or is it going to be a lower-level alternative, like the 2600 was in the late 80's? If that's the case, and that's the impression I get, shouldn't it cost significantly less than other consoles on the market?

 

I don't want the Ataribox to fail, but the fact that Atari seems unwilling or unable to answer some pretty basic questions doesn't fill me with confidence that it will succeed. It feels less like hype-building and more like scrambling behind the scenes to cover up mistakes.

 

If Atari wants me to get excited about this thing, they need to give me a reason to get excited about it.

[bojay1997]

It's déjà vu, all over again.

 

From the Coleco Chamelon thread:

 

 

 

Yep, this whole thing has been like a replay of the Coleco Chameleon thread with a new small group of people leaving their common sense behind and just wanting to believe so badly that this could be something amazing that they are ignoring all of the massive red flags. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being critical or skeptical of a pitch of this type. Anyone who insists that people should be positive and reserve judgement when there is already so much negative evidence building up is clearly ignorant and shouldn't be taken seriously.

Edited November 30, 2017 by bojay1997

[Atariboy2600]

Hummmm Smell That Retro Vintage Goodness.

[tschak909]

It _REALLY_ blows my mind, how some of you can literally completely gloss over the fact that Atari has no engineers under its umbrella. This thing is being developed by a teeny engineering shop that was also behind the GameBand, and other....shady...products.

 

I say this, because you can't equate the argument of "oh, not having finalized specs is standard practice." with Atari. Nintendo, actually has multiple departments dedicated to consumer hardware engineering, same with Microsoft. Same with Sony... They have the resources to follow through on a product, and in the end, this is what matters. There has been very little indication that the subcontractor that Atari has selected can deliver anything in proportion to the hype that has been generated.

 

This isn't the Atari of old. It isn't even the Atari of 25 years ago. Atari today are a bunch of dicks in suits, and all of the apologists need to come to grips with this.

 

-Thom

[BiffsGamingVideos]

It _REALLY_ blows my mind, how some of you can literally completely gloss over the fact that Atari has no engineers under its umbrella. This thing is being developed by a teeny engineering shop that was also behind the GameBand, and other....shady...products.

 

 

Just like most of Atari's systems or 2600 games. They were done by someone else. Lynx, ST....What's with all of the Fox news hatred here. This is common practice and has been sense, well forever.