Flojomojo Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 I'd be interested n purchasing one of the jag cases for a project box. Are they still for sale? What is the deal with this unhealthy obsession with the Atari Jaguar case? It was never an attractive design, and it makes even less sense 25 years later. Let it go!! I was a child for most of the Nolan, Warner, and Tramiel eras, but I don't recall them asking for payment in full for hardware a year in advance. Stuff would come to market and we would buy it if we wanted to, no pressure for "collector's editions" or locking people out of refunds before anything was delivered. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacman000 Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 Whoa, now. I kinda get what you're trying to say but I really wouldn't put the the olden one on the level with this bunch of hucksters. I'm not well versed in the Atari's history, but whatever their failings were - and I'm sure there were plenty - at least they managed to come up with real hardware, quite often iconic, up till the end of the Eighties, perhaps even into early Nineties, depending on how you look at Jaguar. Which, disastrous as it was, at least was trying to do something fresh and advanced. And I'm saying that as a die hard Sinclair/Commodore fanatic. We might've been mocking our Atari friends back in the day but also had certain respect for these machines and definitely all wanted that AvP game. So it's not really fair to compare these olden Atarians to some cynical corporate playas who bought the logo and the papers. And then can't even put a working prototype together and avoid their campaign becoming a farce. And overall probably never even intended to fully go through with this and are just silently praying for a buyout. That does remind me of Atari Corp's last months as an independent company; Jack realized the company wasn't in good shape, & started talks with JTS about a merger, while Atari continued to tell consumers that the Jaguar would be supported. They even held off releasing the last few games to make it look like they were still developing new software. Of course, I can forgive a guy who's son just had a heart attack for trying to get out, and JTS was supposed to provide some rudimentary support for Atari's customers; it was part of the merger agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacman000 Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 What is the deal with this unhealthy obsession with the Atari Jaguar case? It was never an attractive design, and it makes even less sense 25 years later. Let it go!! I like the case... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toiletunes Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 I like tacos 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBerel Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 What is the deal with this unhealthy obsession with the Atari Jaguar case? It was never an attractive design, and it makes even less sense 25 years later. Let it go!. If you must know, I wanna make my own X86 dental camera and Netflix streaming device. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 I haven't watched it yet, but I love this guy and vouch for it sight unseen, like an AtariBox pigeon at a crowdfunding campaign. Stop Drop & Retro, everyone: 22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+frankodragon Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 I'm guessing if Atari SA runs off with the cash, which I suspect they'll do, they're going to make yet another bunch of crappy songs. And then if you try to get your money back, this happens: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariNerd Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 (edited) It's kind of sad - that coin/medallion is obviously a real physical item, that they might have offered through their store and i might have been interested in, as it looks pretty sharp and well-designed. (Hopefully, whoever designed it, was compensated.) And the NEW classic stick in the IGG campaign looks like it might be functional, even if that just means stuffing the classic guts into it. (It's hard to screw up, even if they didn't have a mould, they could have wired up the innards into a new hand-cobbled case.) I might have taken a risk on that, if it had been offered as it's own commemorative item, say, last year. That, along with co-operating with shirt designers and other creatives, offering them a space on their site, while taking a small cut of their own, would have been pretty acceptable. I seriously don't see how the company is alive at this point, with $4USD sales on old IP collections? I guess perhaps from all of the money collected on the various "ventures" that the hopeful have backed, but haven't come to pass and whatever privileges owning the brand might garner.... Huh, will Jeff Minter be paid for his co-operation with porting TK4, I wonder, given their past relationship, or will he be thrown under the bus, later, Atari claiming the name and closing him out? I don't see myself ever supporting the entity that calls themselves "Atari", as the current ownership of that brand stands, now. Edited June 23, 2018 by AtariNerd 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariNerd Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 Completely off-topic, on a more positive note - just got this in the mail, the proceeds going to a good place. https://store.cdbaby.com/cd/ps6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lingyi Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 (edited) What I don't understand is the economics of this whole thing. If they don't deliver anything at all, they walk away with $3 mil less the $10's or $100's of thousands they've spent setting up the scam and will have to pay out to keep everyone quiet. A good amount of money left, say $2 mil, but we're going on 2 years with a guarantee of ruining any possibility of a comeback for the individuals and Atari name and possible criminal charges for the principals. If they do deliver, the development and manufacturing costs will eat up most of the money with the real profits coming from software releases, which have to be innovative to survive in the modern gaming world. Edited June 23, 2018 by lingyi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 (edited) The Jaguar had what, 3 amazing exclusive gams. AvP, Rayman and Tempest 2000. Not exactly much, but thats a heck of a lot more then what this new fiasco has so far 1 year in. And it had at least a proper vision and plan, that if executed properly, would of been huge in 1993 when it was released (64 bits compared to the SNES and Genesis 16 bits) compared to their plan/vision for their new VCS (Play classic Atari games you can get on Steam for $4 for an astronomical price and make it easy for moms to watch Netflix?) No it wasn't really 64 bits and the whole thing wasn't executed well and the thing ended up failing, and on top of that the controller was extremely awful. I can at least give them credit for trying and attempting it, especially in the early-mid '90s when Atari was in terrible shape financially. That's A LOT more then what I can say about Nutari's VCS. Nutari hasn't even "tried" or attempted anything. This is one of the most extremely lazy "Give me your money" fiascos I have ever seen. And hey, as a result of the Jaguar selling so poorly and being scarce, they're quite valuable today. And they weren't marketed back at release as a "Buy it now as it'll be a super valuable bomb-diggity bomb collectible in the future!" Edited June 23, 2018 by Pink 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godslabrat Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 When a hypothetical re-release of the Jaguar seems like it would have been the smarter move, you know you've screwed up. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 If they do deliver, the development and manufacturing costs will eat up most of the money with the real profits coming from software releases, which have to be innovative to survive in the modern gaming world. I'm gonna venture a guess that they end up using off the shelf boards (or very close to it) to make these things if they do deliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgeld Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 And hey, as a result of the Jaguar selling so poorly and being scarce, they're quite valuable today. eh I bought one last year for 30 bucks (nothing else with it though) so I wont be retiring anytime soon 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 The Jaguar had what, 3 amazing exclusive gams. AvP, Rayman and Tempest 2000. Not exactly much, but thats a heck of a lot more then what this new fiasco has so far 1 year in. ... And hey, as a result of the Jaguar selling so poorly and being scarce, they're quite valuable today. And they weren't marketed back at release as a "Buy it now as it'll be a super valuable bomb-diggity bomb collectible in the future!" I agree with your assessment, that was a real console, botched as it was. Though Rayman and Tempest 2000 appeared many other places besides Jaguar, and AvP has been superseded. Not everything that is "rare" or sells at higher prices than they did at launch are inherently valuable. I bet Melania's green H&M jacket (sold for $39, same price I paid for an Atari Jaguar) can fetch a lot more money now. That doesn't make it worth having. When a hypothetical re-release of the Jaguar seems like it would have been the smarter move, you know you've screwed up. Also a bad sign when you delete(valid, fair) critical comments on your promo page on Facebook. I wonder if their recent silence signals they'll "cut and run" (thanks Stoppy), or if they plan to go the distance and shoot for total humiliation? I'm gonna venture a guess that they end up using off the shelf boards (or very close to it) to make these things if they do deliver.Almost certainly. The AMD board is the most substantial claim they've made thus far. In this world of easy consumer tech, where everyone has access to things like cheap project boards, 3D printing, open source software, and easy electronic marketing, the AtariBox project is almost speculacularly underwhelming. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 What I don't understand is the economics of this whole thing. If they don't deliver anything at all, they walk away with $3 mil less the $10's or $100's of thousands they've spent setting up the scam and will have to pay out to keep everyone quiet. A good amount of money left, say $2 mil, but we're going on 2 years with a guarantee of ruining any possibility of a comeback for the individuals and Atari name and possible criminal charges for the principals. If they do deliver, the development and manufacturing costs will eat up most of the money with the real profits coming from software releases, which have to be innovative to survive in the modern gaming world. I assume a healthy markup for whatever they make. Also, it's flexible funding on the campaign. They can take the money and run per the terms of the "contract" with the backers as far as I know. I doubt the "perks" are guaranteed or or otherwise secured. The Sinclair non-delivery only had collection agents on them because of a lawsuit. I don't know much about these things, but I would guess "Atari Game Box LLC" could be sacrificed without touching Atari SA if it came to it. Like GameBand, "this is not us, we revoked their license" since they know plenty of people will forget their misdeeds. I don't see tens or hundreds of thousands in spending for anything they've shown, personally. As for criminal charges, what did you have in mind? The backers have happily given up their consumer rights by throwing money at this traveling circus for only vague promises in return. Backer and contribution numbers are going down, which is fun for this hater to watch. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 Tarifs, %25 increase of BOM. Heh. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 The Jaguar had what, 3 amazing exclusive gams. AvP, Rayman and Tempest 2000. Not exactly much, but thats a heck of a lot more then what this new fiasco has so far 1 year in. No love for Super Burnout?! Well personal preferences, I guess. I loved that game. Also, Ralphie approves of amazing gams: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 I agree with your assessment, that was a real console, botched as it was. Though Rayman and Tempest 2000 appeared many other places besides Jaguar, and AvP has been superseded. Not everything that is "rare" or sells at higher prices than they did at launch are inherently valuable. I bet Melania's green H&M jacket (sold for $39, same price I paid for an Atari Jaguar) can fetch a lot more money now. That doesn't make it worth having. I agree 100% I have one simply because I'm a big Atari fan and a collector. It simply is not that good of a system, a small library of games and a horrendous controller on top of all that. Theres a reason the SNES and Genesis were huge successes and outsold the competition by a landslide and these other consoles like the Jaguar and CD-I were huge commercial failures. Same thing with the Sega Saturn. I own one and love it, but if it were 1997 and I had the choice to get one console for Christmas or something, theres absolutely no way I would consider a Saturn over a Playstation or a N64. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 Tarifs, %25 increase of BOM. Heh. That would give them a face-saving scapegoat, at least. No love for Super Burnout?! Well personal preferences, I guess. I loved that game. Also, Ralphie approves of amazing gams: That's a major award! Fragile! Same thing with the Sega Saturn. I own one and love it, but if it were 1997 and I had the choice to get one console for Christmas or something, theres absolutely no way I would consider a Saturn over a Playstation or a N64. The trick is to have paid $400 in early 1995, before the Playstation launched ... and it had Virtua Cop, Sega Rally, and Virtua Fighter 2 by Xmas. It was deeply discounted and on the way out by 1997. What a great system. It was nice to have a little rivalry between them and Sony. AtariBox is the Game.Com in that lineup, nobody's first choice, but there's always going to be someone apologizing for and collecting it. I wonder what the effect of the internet really is on AtariBox? Would it even be doing this well if they only had old-style communication? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariNerd Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 I must admit that I'm still a little broken up over the fate of the Dream Cast - difficult to talk about, the wounds run deep. Over (N)acho Grande - naw, it's the Taco Thread, pass the Guac! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lingyi Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 I assume a healthy markup for whatever they make. Also, it's flexible funding on the campaign. They can take the money and run per the terms of the "contract" with the backers as far as I know. I doubt the "perks" are guaranteed or or otherwise secured. The Sinclair non-delivery only had collection agents on them because of a lawsuit. I don't know much about these things, but I would guess "Atari Game Box LL"C could be sacrificed without touching Atari SA if it came to it. Like GameBand, "this is not us, we revoked their license" since they know plenty of people will forget their misdeeds. I don't see tens or hundreds of thousands in spending for anything they've shown, personally. As for criminal charges, what did you have in mind? The backers have happily given up their consumer rights by throwing money at this traveling circus for only vague promises in return. Backer and contribution numbers are going down, which is fun for this hater to watch. There's booking space (even if it's just a hotel room) and travel to events, website development costs and assuming they have an office and actual staff, rent and staff costs. The financial model for almost any business includes financial losses (especially if the principles take large salaries/distributions) for several years. From what I understand about Indiegogo, they can happily run with the money, but I would hope there's some type of charge that could be brought against them for outright fraud if they have no intention of ever delivering a product. BTW, I'm with you on watching the campaign. I didn't care when it was going up, but find it thrilling to hopefully see it plummet down! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 From what I understand about Indiegogo, they can happily run with the money, but I would hope there's some type of charge that could be brought against them for outright fraud if they have no intention of ever delivering a product. I've only glanced at their rules, but it's absolutely stuffed with red flags, like "this is just a venue" and "we don't give out refunds." It's under the "trust and security" section, of course. https://learn.indiegogo.com/trust/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godslabrat Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 This is yet another case I can cite when people ask me why I don't ever consider Indiegogo campaigns. I'll use Kickstarter anytime, but IGG just has no credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lingyi Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 (edited) Wow, I just visited the Indiegogo FAQ page and they CYA themselves with an iron plate! Please, if you've ordered a VCS, read the following! From: https://support.indiegogo.com/hc/en-us/articles/526876-Refunds-Can-I-get-my-money-back- "When are contributions not eligible for a refund? Contributions cannot be refunded by Indiegogo, if any of the following are true: The contribution funds have already been transferred to the campaign owner The campaign has ended" "I’m not eligible for a refund but I want one. What do I do? For campaigns that have ended, where the funds have already been sent to the campaign owner, or in all other cases where an order is not eligible for a refund via Indiegogo, backers should contact the campaign owner directly regarding refunds. Please note: In cases where the funds have been disbursed to the campaigner and are therefore not eligible for a refund via Indiegogo, the campaigner and backer will have to work out the method for refunds, off platform." Edited June 24, 2018 by lingyi 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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