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New Atari Console that Ataribox?


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#2226 BiffsGamingVideos OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:34 AM

Now, as far as putting a game on as many systems as possible....

 

 

If a game is written with Unity, then you can easily publish it to many platforms (IOS, android, windows, mac....).  To put on a console, you need to be a licensee from Sony/MS/Nintendo.  That means they get a cut of the sales.  They advertise the system and sell the hardware so it's fair.  For android you probably want onscreen buttons touchscreen.  You also want keyboard/mouse support for running on Windows.  You also want joystick control as well.  So  there are minor differences depending on the OS that will be exported to.

 

If a game is not written with Unity, then it's probably not cross platform.  They basically have to redo the games.  This takes time and money.

 

So there are AAA+ games like Grand Theft Auto and there are independent games.  Atari needs both.  For a AA+ game, they have to advertise and spend money.  That means there has to be a return on their money to make it worthwhile.  So yeah, they could release it for Ataribox and make a little money, sure.  However, they could also spend their time on a sequel and release it on the other consoles and make a lot of money.  This is why Tron 3 was canned.  Disney would make money off it but they make a hell of a lot more making more Marvel or Pixar movies.

 

So that gets to a independent developer.  What to do?  Well, 99.9999% of developers don't make more than $100 on a game.  There are over 1.5 million apps on the stores.  Your game can not be seen.  It's like winning the lottery just to be seen.  You don't have the advertising budget.  So releasing it on several platforms is good: android, IOS, Mac and Windows.  Are you really gonna make money on Samsung TV or Roku or whatever?  No.  Just like a AAA game, you can spend you time making something new.

 

So then why would you want to get a company like Atari exclusive sales on a game?  Atari NEEDS exclusive titles.  There has to be games on the ataribox that is nowhere else.  There would be limited number of games.  This means a gamer will buy anything that is available (like when the Jaguar only had Trevor McFure out for it's 1st Christmas and I drove 3 hours to get a copy just so I had something to play).  You get a bigger share of sales.  Atari would also promote the game.  You'll never get seen on android or IOS, but could be a top seller on Ataribox.  Atari would also be willing to offer up front money if you have good software.  So maybe they give you a few bucks for an exclusive for a year.  Then you could always sell it on other systems.  You get to double dip.  After getting a name on the console, then selling it on android or ios you might be seen.  You'd have a year or two of being promoted by Atari.

 

So as a small developer it makes more sense to team up with someone like Atari (or Nintendo, MS or Sony).  They have more resources than you.  They promote and sell the game and you get paid.  The amount would be a lot more than if you tried to do it alone.  This is how EA come into being as a distubuter of independent games.

 

(I now return this thread back to FOX news so all of those people who never have written a game in their lives can tell me I'm wrong).


Edited by BiffsGamingVideos, Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:38 AM.


#2227 Schizophretard ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:47 AM

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#2228 Osgeld OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:00 PM

 

(I now return this thread back to FOX news so all of those people who never have written a game in their lives can tell me I'm wrong).

 

I have written a few games, I did not read your last two enormous walls of text, but you are wrong



#2229 pacman000 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:11 PM

Now, as far as putting a game on as many systems as possible....

 

 

If a game is written with Unity, then you can easily publish it to many platforms (IOS, android, windows, mac....).  To put on a console, you need to be a licensee from Sony/MS/Nintendo.  That means they get a cut of the sales.  They advertise the system and sell the hardware so it's fair.  For android you probably want onscreen buttons touchscreen.  You also want keyboard/mouse support for running on Windows.  You also want joystick control as well.  So  there are minor differences depending on the OS that will be exported to.

 

If a game is not written with Unity, then it's probably not cross platform.  They basically have to redo the games.  This takes time and money.

 

So there are AAA+ games like Grand Theft Auto and there are independent games.  Atari needs both.  For a AA+ game, they have to advertise and spend money.  That means there has to be a return on their money to make it worthwhile.  So yeah, they could release it for Ataribox and make a little money, sure.  However, they could also spend their time on a sequel and release it on the other consoles and make a lot of money.  This is why Tron 3 was canned.  Disney would make money off it but they make a hell of a lot more making more Marvel or Pixar movies.

 

So that gets to a independent developer.  What to do?  Well, 99.9999% of developers don't make more than $100 on a game.  There are over 1.5 million apps on the stores.  Your game can not be seen.  It's like winning the lottery just to be seen.  You don't have the advertising budget.  So releasing it on several platforms is good: android, IOS, Mac and Windows.  Are you really gonna make money on Samsung TV or Roku or whatever?  No.  Just like a AAA game, you can spend you time making something new.

 

So then why would you want to get a company like Atari exclusive sales on a game?  Atari NEEDS exclusive titles.  There has to be games on the ataribox that is nowhere else.  There would be limited number of games.  This means a gamer will buy anything that is available (like when the Jaguar only had Trevor McFure out for it's 1st Christmas and I drove 3 hours to get a copy just so I had something to play).  You get a bigger share of sales.  Atari would also promote the game.  You'll never get seen on android or IOS, but could be a top seller on Ataribox.  Atari would also be willing to offer up front money if you have good software.  So maybe they give you a few bucks for an exclusive for a year.  Then you could always sell it on other systems.  You get to double dip.  After getting a name on the console, then selling it on android or ios you might be seen.  You'd have a year or two of being promoted by Atari.

 

So as a small developer it makes more sense to team up with someone like Atari (or Nintendo, MS or Sony).  They have more resources than you.  They promote and sell the game and you get paid.  The amount would be a lot more than if you tried to do it alone.  This is how EA come into being as a distubuter of independent games.

 

(I now return this thread back to FOX news so all of those people who never have written a game in their lives can tell me I'm wrong).

I can see the basic logic here, but Atari today has less money than in 1996 when they decided to get out of the console business ($1 million today vs. $10 million then, not considering inflation.) They won't be doing any significant marketing for anyone.

 

(Actually Atari probably had $35 million going into 96, but they gave JT Storage a massive loan early in the year.)



#2230 BiffsGamingVideos OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:26 PM

"I can see the basic logic here, but Atari today has less money than in 1996 when they decided to get out of the console business ($1 million today vs. $10 million then, not considering inflation.) They won't be doing any significant marketing for anyone."

 

Promoting the game on their apps store is all the exposure one needs for indie games.



#2231 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:15 PM

Peace man. Apology accepted, and I apologize if anything came off as disrespectful. I do have to disagree that pointing out a fairly rich history of misrepresentations by a marketing company or thrice renamed start-up who are asking people to trust them with their money is in any way troll behavior. If anything, in my view, it's everyone on these boards and elsewhere that are being trolled by Atari and Rainfactory. The performance to date is disrespectful to a large sector of their intended audience. I'm a former commercial producer, and I've had my fair share of run-ins with ethically challenged companies and marketing outfits. It's never okay to deliberately and knowingly falsify facts or claims to raise capital. If and when there is an actual Ataribox, it will be judged on it's actual merits.

 

The solution is simple, don't let your life be influenced by vaporware. I'm here for the drama and little else.

 

Between real hardware and emulation, there is little need for new atari stuff.



#2232 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:28 PM

I generally agree with this, tho I must point out that Atari Games was kept alive as Midway West till about 2003. Even if they changed names to avoid confusion, it still existed, and would've been influenced by its past.

 

I do care some about continued existence. If Atari has kept going from '96 till today they would have some sort of culture influenced by the company's history. even if all the 70's/80's employees had retired they would've passed their knowledge of the company on to new employees through stories. When JTS took over they fired all but 5 people who were supposed to help them sell off/license Atari's IP. From what I've read Hasbro only bought Atari's IP; I find no evidence they kept the few remaining Atari employees. Whatever we have today can't be the Atari of the past because Atari stopped existing. There's no history, no culture; the folks who would've set it up were left out of the deal.

 

They may have told stories, but it doesn't really equate to any kind of knowledge transfer. Nor does it have any influence on operating procedures.

 

The selling of IP and layoffs pretty much stops transfer of culture. TOC can only be done slowly and over time. NASA has this problem, but with hard specific knowledge and specifications. Technical papers.
 



#2233 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:32 PM

You could very well be correct, i mean maybe i do have the Atari goggles, shoes to match with the hat. Guess as a huge Atari fan, i mean as someone who not only collects carts but all Atari branded software, im a little too complacent. I understand Atari is not the same company anymore and guess it's the inner child that wants the comeback tour. Very much like sports fans that will rep a team even if they well know their team is nothing like it used to be 20 years ago.

 

Now i have been sitting back thinking before blurting emotions i don't think you were disrespectful. Think im just that idiot sitting in the grandstand cheering on a dead horse hoping the bugger will get back up and win the race. It's all good, just hoping they don't pull some sick scheme on loyal fans for a quick buck.

 

Sorry i take back any belligerent comments made

 

Don't feel bad about it. They have trained professional social media managers preying on this vulnerability. Every classic game enthusiast gets excited about all things "Atari". Some of them quickly see through the smoke and mirrors. Others WANT to believe. And yet even more blindly follow the name around. Just something to be aware of.

 

The ultimate equalizer will be the product you purchase at retail.



#2234 JBerel OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:50 PM

I feel like my eyes are going to bleed after reading some of that (eventually I started skimming things....)

 
Yeah....it's a lot. Let me provide the lightning round summary.
 
atariboxtl1.jpg

atariboxtl2.jpg

atariboxtl3.jpg

atariboxtl4.jpg

atariboxtl5.jpg


Edited by JBerel, Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:17 PM.


#2235 frankodragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:51 PM

After the guys here on AA did some super sleuthing finding out what the Coleco™ Chameleon really was inside (a DVR capture card) many of us are just used to finding out something that has been pitched and promised, and then it's just vaporware.  This also is going the same way with the AtariBox.  For one thing, no updates and no pictures of the inside of the unit.  Anyone can make a shell of the outside, but where's the actual board with all the circuitry?  That's one reason why there is negativity about it.   

 

It's like from the old commercial, "Where's the Beef?"

 



#2236 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:04 PM

OMG:  with all of this negitivity here I thought I was on FOX News.

 

Now let's get back to a topic on hand.  Linux.  I think the system should NOT be open to install games from Linux or Steam.  Here's why.

 

1) Nobody knows what Linux is.  Go ask 100 people that have a X-Box and you might get 1-2 that even heard of Linux.  Nobody cares.  It will not increase sales at all.

 

That's absolutely right. I asked some 40 or 50 people what Linux was and no one really knew. The 3 that did said it was like Windows or Apple. IMHO Linux will always be niche and for the strong-personality types. It's good for embedded systems too. Again, IMHO, Linux is too fragmented to be reliable enough for the average desktop user. Too many builds, too many flavors.

 

 

 

2) People just want it to work.  You get a TV set.  Who wants to spend 15 minutes finding a live stream for a NFL game?  Nobody.  You just want it to work.  Using a K-III Android with Kodi gives 1000 TV channels live, but it takes a long time to find the channel, then stream it and then it drops frames and the link go dead.  I just want it to work.  Steve Jobs (sorry about naming him) actually understood that.  KISS, keep it simple stupid.  It just needs to work.
 
Yup. That is 100% correct and then some. I had that problem with early MP3 players from the 1990's and dot-com era. They were a frustrating exercise in getting all the detail just right. In the correct sequence, with the correct add-ons and such. I just wanted it to work.
 
Steve Jobs (no need to apologize for name dropping/mentioning) had the correct philosophy. Just make it work. And that is what the iPod did for me. It just worked! What was a 15-click clickfest to sync music, became a zero-click or 1-click operation that just worked. And it worked like how I expected it to. The interface was powerful and elegant. And you could determine the "power level" by how deep you went.
 
So, yeh, when I want to play Air-Sea Battle or Slot Racers I just want to click once or twice and start playing. Not all that different from playing Star Blazer on the Apple II. Put the disk in and play. No farting around with options or please wait progress bars. No byzantine lists of do this then this then this!
 
 

 

This is a business.  A business' goal is to make money.  If Atari and their developers are to make money, they need to follow how Nintendo changed the industry.  That is have a closed system where they license out devlopers to make a limited number of games.  If you want Linux, then go buy a mint box.  If you want Atari, then you get Atari.  Atari should not even mention Linux ever again.  They are just costing themselves money.  Someone will find a hack and publish it on YouTube.  SO yeah, for those few people then there you go.  But for the other 99.9% it should just be Atari.

 

That is correct. When I was a kid I didn't care what kind of OS was in the VCS or any of my other consoles. The only time discussion of OS'es happened was when I was doing something on a real computer like the Apple II.

 



#2237 SignGuy81 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:28 PM

Sounds like somebody above thinks when(if) this thing comes out they stand to make a fortune as a developer for Ataribox and wants to make sure they have no competition.



#2238 Flojomojo OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:30 PM

Sounds like somebody above thinks when(if) this thing comes out they stand to make a fortune as a developer for Ataribox and wants to make sure they have no competition.

IF the AtariBox is like the 2018 answer to the OUYA question that nobody asked, the BEST CASE for an indie developer on a platform like this would be a limited exclusive on the oddball platform, followed by a wider release on real systems (where the people are) if it's good enough to make it there. I can think of ONE game that fits that mold: Towerfall Ascension. Did anyone reading this buy an OUYA to play this "killer app?" Does anyone remember that today? 



#2239 RainbowCemetery OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:03 PM

i bought an ouya with the intent to develop for it but never did. they tried to court exclusives a little but i don't think they had the resources to make it very enticing.

 

i was gonna tie that back to current atari but i feel tired thinking about it. i just wanna know what's in the box



#2240 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:04 PM

No and no! But to be completely fair, it's like the many millions of games I've not seen or played yet. Mainly all I recall about OUYA (not having owned one) is what I read on the internet and how I disliked the online requirements. I also thought the name snobbish, somehow.



#2241 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:05 PM

i was gonna tie that back to current atari but i feel tired thinking about it. i just wanna know what's in the box

 

A lot of hot air.



#2242 Raticon OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:06 PM

Sounds like somebody above thinks when(if) this thing comes out they stand to make a fortune as a developer for Ataribox and wants to make sure they have no competition.

If Atari will treat their Ataribox indie developers like they treated the entrants to the Pong competition a few years back, there won't be much competition to develop for the system at all. Those terms were scary!


Edited by Raticon, Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:07 PM.


#2243 RainbowCemetery OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:10 PM

i guess i should say, what they might potentially claim to intend to put in the box :o



#2244 JBerel OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:18 PM

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#2245 JBerel OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:21 PM

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#2246 Nathan Strum OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:52 PM

1) Nobody knows what Linux is. 

 

Lucy's brother?

 

main-linus.png



#2247 pacman000 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:01 PM

Back to more serious discussion: can Atari, or anyone for that matter, deliver a modern gaming machine at their proposed price point?

Curious, I looked up $300 gaming PC. Found this: https://www.toptenga...aming-pc-build/

Which has a link to this: https://www.toptenga.../150-gaming-pc/

#2248 Osgeld OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:24 PM

Back to more serious discussion: can Atari, or anyone for that matter, deliver a modern gaming machine at their proposed price point?

Curious, I looked up $300 gaming PC. Found this: https://www.toptenga...aming-pc-build/

Which has a link to this: https://www.toptenga.../150-gaming-pc/

 

that's not fair, they are not including labor to assemble or shipping (or the price of a prime account) 

 

yea its possible for someone to do with bulk / direct pricing, but where you going to shove a 400 watt power supply and a 2 slot card in that case 

 

on a side note, you would probably be better off getting a older system than buying that list (example 199$ i5  with legit windows and 100$ left for a video card unless you like to OC or cherry pick your components, the i5 has better performance though) 

 

edit back on topic 

 

also consider the atarwhee bawx probably is not going to be targeting brand new bleeding edge games at ultra detail in 1080, I think flow linked a 150$ new laptop that will run 99% of indy games no problem, and bill keeps mentioning cuphead ... which runs ... well lets say acceptably on my 2008 era AMD 2.5ghz A2X2 with a 39.99$ Radieon R5-240 that I have out in the garage at 1280x1024 (aka 4:3 720p) 


Edited by Osgeld, Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:46 PM.


#2249 x=usr(1536) OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:05 PM

Haven't checked in on this thread in a week, so may have missed the answer to this thoroughly burning question as I skimmed most of the responses, but:

 

Will Ataribox buzz my gameband when I get a text message?  This is important.



#2250 SignGuy81 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:20 PM

Haven't checked in on this thread in a week, so may have missed the answer to this thoroughly burning question as I skimmed most of the responses, but:

 

Will Ataribox buzz my gameband when I get a text message?  This is important.

 

No, it will alert you on your Speakerhat instead with text to speech.






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