cybercylon Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 Don't they still need permission from al of the contributors to Stella if they are planning to use the new version in a commercial product, in addition to providing the source code? (Maybe I am not clear on that first part). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyHairy Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 (edited) Don't they still need permission from al of the contributors to Stella if they are planning to use the new version in a commercial product, in addition to providing the source code? (Maybe I am not clear on that first part). Permission would be required for a license change, which would be required to use modern Stella under a non-GPL license. If Hyperkin fulfill the terms of the GPLv2 (publishing the source for all software that is derived from Stella under the GPLv2 or under a compatible license), they are legally free to use it in a commercial product (a donation to Stella would certainly be welcome, though). The GPL does not forbid monetarization, it just enforces the license terms to be preserved in a derived work. Edited April 6, 2018 by DirtyHairy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyHairy Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 (edited) Holy crap that's awesome! It must be using real time bus level cart interface or have a powerful emulator... I am pretty confident that bit banging the bus in sync with emulation (with 1.33MHz) with timing sufficiently precise to interact with the Harmony cartridge is impossible, at least on an embedded linux platform. Coincidentally, the photos show a ROM image being launched, not a cartridge, so I am 99.9999% percent sure that they are emulating DPC+ (that's what is used by those early draconian builds, not CDF). There are currently only two public implementations of DPC+ and CDF, the first one in Stella written by Spiceware, and the second in 6502.ts, written by me and modeled after Stella. Both are GPLv2, so Hyperkin must either have performed cleanroom reverse engineering of DPC+, reimplementing the emulation from scratch (without looking at the existing implementations), or their emulation is a derived work and must be published under a license compatible with the GPLv2. Edited April 6, 2018 by DirtyHairy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 I am pretty confident that bit banging the bus in sync with emulation (with 1.33MHz) with timing sufficiently precise to interact with the Harmony cartridge is impossible, at least on an embedded linux platform. Coincidentally, the photos show a ROM image being launched, not a cartridge, so I am 99.9999% percent sure that they are emulating DPC+ (that's what is used by those early draconian builds, not CDF). There are currently only two public implementations of DPC+ and CDF, the first one in Stella written by Spiceware, and the second in 6502.ts, written by me and modeled after Stella. Both are GPLv2, so Hyperkin must either have performed cleanroom reverse engineering of DPC+, reimplementing the emulation from scratch (without looking at the existing implementations), or their emulation is a derived work and must be published under a license compatible with the GPLv2. Let us not forget, Hyperkin has a long history of not honoring non-commercial gpl licences on other devices, ie retron5... It will be interesting to see if flash saving or atarivox/savekey works on this device. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up2knowgood Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 I know its probably stupid, and almost none of want to hear it, but Hyperkin has a sign up for Retron 77 preorders. I signed because I, unlike a lot of you it seems, do actually want to see it become a reality. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 I know its probably stupid, and almost none of want to hear it, but Hyperkin has a sign up for Retron 77 preorders. I signed because I, unlike a lot of you it seems, do actually want to see it become a reality. Thanks, I added my name to the list. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up2knowgood Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 Thanks, I added my name to the list. You're welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 I know its probably stupid, and almost none of want to hear it, but Hyperkin has a sign up for Retron 77 preorders. I signed because I, unlike a lot of you it seems, do actually want to see it become a reality. Of course it's stupid! Atari cartridges are totally stupid, but we love them anyway. I signed up too. Here's the link. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_convoy Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 I'm interested in the project, so thanks for the heads up (and thank you Flojo for the link). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up2knowgood Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 You're welcome all. Gosh, there seemed to be enough people earlier criticizing how it was just emulation and Hyperkin wasn't a great company that I thought interest was pretty low. I am pleasantly surprised and happy to be wrong. Also, since nobody's mentioned it, is anybody else excited about the controller with TWO buttons? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godslabrat Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 You're welcome all. Gosh, there seemed to be enough people earlier criticizing how it was just emulation and Hyperkin wasn't a great company that I thought interest was pretty low. I am pleasantly surprised and happy to be wrong. Also, since nobody's mentioned it, is anybody else excited about the controller with TWO buttons? In this day and age, being "just emulation" is not always a bad thing. And it's true that Hyperkin is sketchy, but as this product is the first of its kind, beggars can't be choosers. I genuinely want this and am eager for news. However, one bit of news I am most eager for is knowing our hobbyist programmers didn't get shafted over in the creation of this box. I can't pledge my money until I know that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 That's right. Emulation continues to get a bad rap just because emulation. Emulation can't seem to shake the "cheap" factor either. And yet emulation is the way forward. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 You're welcome all. Gosh, there seemed to be enough people earlier criticizing how it was just emulation and Hyperkin wasn't a great company that I thought interest was pretty low. I am pleasantly surprised and happy to be wrong. Also, since nobody's mentioned it, is anybody else excited about the controller with TWO buttons? My interest in this product is actually 1000x more than that other product something something Taco box. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 The tacobox thread is a garbage collection thread. Every computer system needs one, every forum needs one. It helps confine nonsense to one thread. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 The tacobox thread is a garbage collection thread. Every computer system needs one, every forum needs one. It helps confine nonsense to one thread. It's as much garbage as the Chameleon was, but I'd give it a .01% change at fruition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up2knowgood Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Someone needs to explain Tacobox to me....I don't get it. I assume from context that it refers to the Coleco Chameleon, but I'm not sure how or why. Since it came up, I guess it would be okay for me to put my 2cents in about it. The Chameleon sounded like pie in the sky to me when I first heard the pitch. Cartridges died out because of costs. I for one, remember when a PlayStation game was about $30 and new N64 was over $70 at the same time, seemed impossible that a cartridge based system could compete with the big three. When Coleco got behind it, and it was aimed at classic gamers, I'll admit I though it had a chance. Then the tomfoolery happened starting with that awful showing. They seemed to forget that we're nerds, we love these consoles and games, and pay attention to details. Its almost an insult for them to think that we somehow wouldn't notice it was a Super Nintendo with a Jaguar shell on top. After that it was amazing to me how quickly that guy spiraled out of control and the whole project came off the rails. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Someone needs to explain Tacobox to me....I don't get it. I assume from context that it refers to the Coleco Chameleon, but I'm not sure how or why. Tacos are things that people like, that exist now, that you can enjoy without a preorder. Contrast that with "AtariBox," which has always been mystery meat, an annoying tease of a vaporware product which may never come to fruition, and even if it does, it won't live up to the fun old Atari legacy. Chameleon was never very well defined, nor did it have a management or hardware team that was capable of delivering anything like what they promised. The spec was always changing, and the Coleco name only came into the picture in the second round after crowdfunding for "Retro VGS" crashed hard. If you missed that part of the story, you missed a big part of the fun. Mike Kennedy's account on here is "Parrothead" and unlike the current Atari management, he showed up from time to time to talk about his thing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up2knowgood Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 (edited) Tacos are things that people like, that exist now, that you can enjoy without a preorder. Contrast that with "AtariBox," which has always been mystery meat, an annoying tease of a vaporware product which may never come to fruition, and even if it does, it won't live up to the fun old Atari legacy. Chameleon was never very well defined, nor did it have a management or hardware team that was capable of delivering anything like what they promised. The spec was always changing, and the Coleco name only came into the picture in the second round after crowdfunding for "Retro VGS" crashed hard. If you missed that part of the story, you missed a big part of the fun. Mike Kennedy's account on here is "Parrothead" and unlike the current Atari management, he showed up from time to time to talk about his thing. Atari has current management? *PA-DUM-CHEEE!* And yes, I pretty much ignored it before it was the "Coleco Chameleon" because I thought it had like no chance, like I said. Not that it had a chance in the end, eh? *Edit* I forgot to thank you for explaining that to me. So thank you Flojomojo. Edited May 4, 2018 by up2knowgood 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 (edited) Someone needs to explain Tacobox to me....I don't get it. I assume from context that it refers to the Coleco Chameleon, but I'm not sure how or why.Sort of. The next big pie in the sky games console was called the Ataribox, but now has changed names to Atari V.C.S., which is imo a slap in the face to classic gamers everywhere. Like the Coleco Chameleon fiasco, it involves current rights owners basically whoring out the name of defunct video game IP in hopes to reenter the console games market. The "new" Atari VCS will be a linux based system with access to Steam in addition to it's own storefront and Atari Vault. Specs will be an x86 based architecture, most likely AMD based, possibly on par with the Nintendo Switch and first iteration XB1/PS4. They will be using IndieGoGo for crowdfunding at the end of May, which is itself a red flag as unlike Kickstarter, IndieGoGo does not require a prototype. Earlybird specials will be $250 and jumps to $300 when it goes on sale, competing head to head with Switch/Xbox/Playstation, well established companies with a proven track record and developer support. Starting out with nothing, I am predicting the device will never fail to materialize, or if it does, quickly die at retail, and the only use it will have as an overpriced and underpowered Steam Box or novelty Linux PC. Most true Atari fans feel insulted by this misappropriation of the brand, and serious gamers with stick with their big three consoles or more capable PCs. I think only hipsters and complete collectards will be willing to back this campaign. I honestly hope it fails so misinformed fans don't get suckered out of their hard earned cash. Full thread: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/266480-new-atari-console-that-ataribox/page-1 The "Taco" reference is a running gag in the thread to lighten the mood. Someone said the prototype render looked like a taco, and a "tacos are awesome" meme started. This is futher enforced by the fact that so far any physical prototypes shown have literally been 3d printed dummy cases with no apparent function whatsoever. So at least the taco tastes good when you try to eat it! Back on topic, the Retron77 doesn't pretend to be something it's not like Coleco Chameleon and Ataribox, definitely is not vaporware, and even though I'm not a big fan of emulation / dumper hardware clones, I will support this because it is the first time any clone manufacturer has ever paid homage to precrash video game consoles. Hyperkin also is an established company with somewhat reliable track record, so I can be confident they don't fail to deliver, even if it isn't perfect. If the Retron77 is successful, we get more controllers, accessories and future commercial scale hardware projects celebrating Atari. If it fails to penetrate the market, then they are back to peddling the rehashed Nintendo/Sega clones they've been making for the past decade or so. Edit: Strike out added to fix incorrect recollection of how the taco meme started. Edited May 4, 2018 by Kosmic Stardust 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 *Edit* I forgot to thank you for explaining that to me. So thank you Flojomojo. I'm gratified that all my time spent wasted enjoyed wasted in that thread helped someone out. A while back, I made an index of the "events" of that thread, including what I believe was the origin of the taco joke. They have 18 full-time employees and you can (but shouldn't) buy public stock at 0.60 Euro per share. Being small is OK, and they can always outsource things like software development, but I have a sinking feeling there are still some chumps who think "Atari" is somehow the same company they loved in the 1980s. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up2knowgood Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Sort of. The next big pie in the sky games console was called the Ataribox, but now has changed names to Atari V.C.S., which is imo a slap in the face to classic gamers everywhere. Like the Coleco Chameleon fiasco, it involves current rights owners basically whoring out the name of defunct video game IP in hopes to reenter the console games market. The "new" Atari VCS will be a linux based system with access to Steam in addition to it's own storefront and Atari Vault. Specs will be an x86 based architecture, most likely AMD based, possibly on par with the Nintendo Switch and first iteration XB1/PS4. They will be using IndieGoGo for crowdfunding at the end of May, which is itself a red flag as unlike Kickstarter, IndieGoGo does not require a prototype. Earlybird specials will be $250 and jumps to $300 when it goes on sale, competing head to head with Switch/Xbox/Playstation, well established companies with a proven track record and developer support. Starting out with nothing, I am predicting the device will never fail to materialize, or if it does, quickly die at retail, and the only use it will have as an overpriced and underpowered Steam Box or novelty Linux PC. Most true Atari fans feel insulted by this misappropriation of the brand, and serious gamers with stick with their big three consoles or more capable PCs. I think only hipsters and complete collectards will be willing to back this campaign. I honestly hope it fails so misinformed fans don't get suckered out of their hard earned cash. Full thread: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/266480-new-atari-console-that-ataribox/page-1 The "Taco" reference is a running gag in the thread to lighten the mood. Someone said the prototype render looked like a taco, and a "tacos are awesome" meme started. This is futher enforced by the fact that so far any physical prototypes shown have literally been 3d printed dummy cases with no apparent function whatsoever. So at least the taco tastes good when you try to eat it! Back on topic, the Retron77 doesn't pretend to be something it's not like Coleco Chameleon and Ataribox, definitely is not vaporware, and even though I'm not a big fan of emulation / dumper hardware clones, I will support this because it is the first time any clone manufacturer has ever paid homage to precrash video game consoles. Hyperkin also is an established company with somewhat reliable track record, so I can be confident they don't fail to deliver, even if it isn't perfect. If the Retron77 is successful, we get more controllers, accessories and future commercial scale hardware projects celebrating Atari. If it fails to penetrate the market, then they are back to peddling the rehashed Nintendo/Sega clones they've been making for the past decade or so. AH! I have to admit I've mostly ignored the Ataribox because I'm admittedly on the other side of the fence from you. I have a computer for Steam, what do I need a box for? That and I fully admit I'm a sucker for hardware emulators, and not tech savvy enough to make my own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up2knowgood Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 (edited) I'm gratified that all my time spent wasted enjoyed wasted in that thread helped someone out. A while back, I made an index of the "events" of that thread, including what I believe was the origin of the taco joke. They have 18 full-time employees and you can (but shouldn't) buy public stock at 0.60 Euro per share. Atari profile.PNG Being small is OK, and they can always outsource things like software development, but I have a sinking feeling there are still some chumps who think "Atari" is somehow the same company they loved in the 1980s. I thought Atari SA went bankrupt a few years back? *Edit* P.S. I now really want tacos after reading that thread....and it does kind of look like a taco to me too, I have to admit. Edited May 4, 2018 by up2knowgood 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 They did go bankrupt, 2013 I believe. This latest company is yet another "brand custodian IP exploiter" incarnation of the shambling corpse wearing the skin of the old Atari. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up2knowgood Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 They did go bankrupt, 2013 I believe. This latest company is yet another "brand custodian IP exploiter" incarnation of the shambling corpse wearing the skin of the old Atari. @!#?@! How do you really feel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nathan Strum Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 *Edit* P.S. I now really want tacos after reading that thread....and it does kind of look like a taco to me too, I have to admit. Such is the power of tacos. We never planned the thread to be that way. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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