Stupid Noob Question Regarding the Jaguar Motorola 68000

[Ctoan]

So I'm kinda new here in this forum and I've always wondered something. Both the genesis and jaguar have the same 68000 cpu with the latter being slightly faster. So my question is do you think the Jaguar cpu could be used to run Genesis games in some capacity?

[OldSchoolRetroGamer]

 

[phoenixdownita]

<sarcasm>

Yes it can, and even without CJ intervention the Jag could play ST games (we just couldn't figure out the incantation), I foresee Amiga and Mac games waiting to be enchanted into playing.

</sarcasm>

 

<reality>

depending on how good one is in emulating the gfx and sfx subsystems of the Genny the actual presence of a 68K on the Jag would help a little in emulating a Genesis (no need to emulate the cpu or to dynamically recompile) .... so told it isn't likely any easier than playing C64 games on a A8 (they have the same 6502 CPU, don't they?) or CPC64 games on an MSX (again same Z80, right?)

</reality>

 

<links>

http://reboot.untergrund.net/new-reboot/redirection.html

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/246639-atari-st-games-ported-to-the-jaguar/

</links>

[Keatah]

The answer is yes. And they will run slightly faster too. After all, they are the same chips. So they can run the same software. It'd be like the 386-33 vs the 386-40. They run the same software, execute the same code. Just a bit faster. Emulation would be easier because of the instruction set commonality. If you put a Pentium-Pro in there as a bus arbitrator things would get moving nicely. The speculative out-of-order execution is a windfall. It's the processor that has the results before you even know you need them. So big benefit there. Woot!

Edited June 20, 2017 by Keatah

[Flojomojo]

Snark and sarcasm aside, I think someone got (Classic) Mac OS 7 running (slowly) on a Sega Genesis.

 

It was ten years ago, and might have been a hoax, since no one seems to have replicated the feat, but here's a write up: http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?2117-Mac-OS-on-a-Sega-Genesis-Yes!

 

All the links are dead, so make of this what you will.

 

Having a 68000 is necessary but not sufficient to run Genesis games, there are many other parts of a working system that would need to be added or simulated. It's like saying, "I got a cow brain from the butcher's shop, can I do calculus now?"

[sirlynxalot]

Lol that Mac os on a genesis thing is so obviously a hoax.

[+nanochess]

Short answer: no. The emulation would be utterly slow because the video and sound chips of Jaguar are completely different from those in Genesis.

[+CyranoJ]

Short answer: no. The emulation would be utterly slow because the video and sound chips of Jaguar are completely different from those in Genesis.

 

That's not entirely true. The ObjectProcessor could most likely emulate the screen display of the Genesis (And, probably, a lot easier than the bit-plane ST layout), and the DSP is more than capable of emulating its sound chip. Will it happen? Highly doubtful.

[+CyranoJ]

http://reboot.untergrund.net/new-reboot/redirection.html

 

 

Wow, I didn't even know that was still there. I'll see what I can do to remove it

 

Thanks!

[+nanochess]

 

That's not entirely true. The ObjectProcessor could most likely emulate the screen display of the Genesis (And, probably, a lot easier than the bit-plane ST layout), and the DSP is more than capable of emulating its sound chip. Will it happen? Highly doubtful.

I stand corrected

[zzip]

Snark and sarcasm aside, I think someone got (Classic) Mac OS 7 running (slowly) on a Sega Genesis.

 

It was ten years ago, and might have been a hoax, since no one seems to have replicated the feat, but here's a write up: http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?2117-Mac-OS-on-a-Sega-Genesis-Yes!

ST could emulate a Mac entirely in software, why not a Genesis? Mac didn't seem to have the kinds of custom chips that would make a Genesis or Amiga hard to emulate

[+Sauron]

What CJ said. The Jag could easily emulate the Genesis. The problem is finding someone to do the necessary work for it to happen.

[+af0l]

 

Wow, I didn't even know that was still there. I'll see what I can do to remove it

 

Thanks!

But why? I still read it sometimes and cry myslf to sleep

[Ctoan]

Thanks for the informative answers! I was kind of expecting more along the lines of "my @$%#ing god this new guy" lol.

[+CyranoJ]

My @$%#ing god this new guy

[VladR]

Out of mere curiosity, as the platform completely missed me (outside of YT videos), from a technical perspective, what's the most advanced / best-looking (yeah, I know it's very subjective) game on Genesis in the following genres ?

 

1. FPS

2. Racing

3. Flight/Space Simulator

4. 2D Platformer

[Flojomojo]

Out of mere curiosity, as the platform completely missed me (outside of YT videos), from a technical perspective, what's the most advanced / best-looking (yeah, I know it's very subjective) game on Genesis in the following genres ?

 

1. FPS

2. Racing

3. Flight/Space Simulator

4. 2D Platformer

This would be a good question to ask in the Genesis section of this site. If you're looking to compare and contrast with Jaguar games, I suppose the first three are a good way to make the Jaguar look better in comparison.

 

FPS - Zero Tolerance or Duke Nukem. Not a genre the Genesis is particularly good at.

Racing -- Virtua Racing, but it requires the SVP chip in the cartridge. I like Road Rash, Super Monaco GP, and Outrun. Batman Returns on Sega CD is probably the best to look at.

Flight/Space simulator -- N/A, this isn't the place for those. I suppose an EA game like F/22 Interceptor would qualify. Framey and slow though, not this system's strength.

2D platformer -- THIS is where Genesis shines. I like Vectorman and Sonic 2, but there are zillions of others. Any of these. http://www.racketboy.com/retro/best-sega-genesis-action-platformers

[VladR]

This would be a good question to ask in the Genesis section of this site. If you're looking to compare and contrast with Jaguar games, I suppose the first three are a good way to make the Jaguar look better in comparison.

 

FPS - Zero Tolerance or Duke Nukem. Not a genre the Genesis is particularly good at.

Racing -- Virtua Racing, but it requires the SVP chip in the cartridge. I like Road Rash, Super Monaco GP, and Outrun. Batman Returns on Sega CD is probably the best to look at.

Flight/Space simulator -- N/A, this isn't the place for those. I suppose an EA game like F/22 Interceptor would qualify. Framey and slow though, not this system's strength.

2D platformer -- THIS is where Genesis shines. I like Vectorman and Sonic 2, but there are zillions of others. Any of these. http://www.racketboy.com/retro/best-sega-genesis-action-platformers

Thanks.

 

F22 is a good example, as it's not using any additional cartridge chip, so it roughly shows actual flatshading performance. Even with SVP, Virtua racing is around the framerate of Checkered Flag.

 

Note that I'm not trying to compare the two platforms, as I really don't know if genesis came out before or after jag (and not willing to check wiki either), as at that time I was caught in an upgrade fever as a proper PC gamer.

 

RoadRash looks like it has a pretty terrible framerate for a 2D game, though ! Not sure if it's just the capture problem, or an actual performance ?!? That almost looks like it's around 15 fps...

 

Aladdin looks , from memory, exactly same as on PC. Any idea which platform was the reference one for Aladdin ?

[Lost Dragon]

F-22 uses the Z80 chip as well as the 68000...think LHX and Blockout also used it.

 

Coder Lee Actor told me he left it for audio when coding Steel Talons and Hard Drivin on Genesis.

 

3D on Genesis needed many coding tricks..frame rate was always going to be choppy, but basically best you'd get from the hardware.

 

Aladdin? Genesis version basis for Amiga version so I suspect basis for PC version also.

[sd32]

Out of mere curiosity, as the platform completely missed me (outside of YT videos), from a technical perspective, what's the most advanced / best-looking (yeah, I know it's very subjective) game on Genesis in the following genres ?

 

1. FPS

2. Racing

3. Flight/Space Simulator

4. 2D Platformer

1. The current Wolfenstein 3D homebrew is pretty impressive. Star Cruiser is fully polygonal!, and plays nice.There is also Duke Nukem 3d, looks cool but plays bad.

2. F1 Championship is related to the Amiga Vroom! Combines polygons ands sprites. Kawasaki Super Bike Challenge uses the same engine.

3.

4. Sonic and Knuckles, Ristar, Dynamite Heady, Mickey Mania. For more action oriented stuff Contra Hard Corps, Alien Soldier, Batman and Robin, Gunstar Heroes, Vectorman.

[Flojomojo]

Thanks.

 

F22 is a good example, as it's not using any additional cartridge chip, so it roughly shows actual flatshading performance. Even with SVP, Virtua racing is around the framerate of Checkered Flag.

 

Note that I'm not trying to compare the two platforms, as I really don't know if genesis came out before or after jag (and not willing to check wiki either), as at that time I was caught in an upgrade fever as a proper PC gamer.

 

RoadRash looks like it has a pretty terrible framerate for a 2D game, though ! Not sure if it's just the capture problem, or an actual performance ?!? That almost looks like it's around 15 fps...

 

Aladdin looks , from memory, exactly same as on PC. Any idea which platform was the reference one for Aladdin ?

 

Example of what, if you're not comparing Genesis vs. Jaguar? Genesis was about 5 years prior to Jaguar, so the jump really /should/have been greater. The CPU that is shared between them, the Motorola 68000, runs at different clock speeds, so it's not like one gets an apples to apples comparison even when considering that alone. Genesis ran it at 7.61 MHz, Jaguar at 13.295 MHz.

 

The Jag was "helped" by having several ports of popular games, but since they weren't notably different/better than the versions on other systems, the Jag ended up looking weaker. Dragon Bruce Lee, Double Dragon V, Flashback, NBA Jam TE, Pinball Fantasies, Pitfall Mayan Adventure, Theme Park, and Zoop are a significant portion of the system's library.

 

Road Rash is not a fast FPS game, but it looks a heck of a lot better than any Atari Jaguar games from 1991.

 

Aladdin for DOS < Aladdin for Genesis, according to GOG reviewers. https://www.gog.com/game/disney_aladdin

[sd32]

Note that I'm not trying to compare the two platforms, as I really don't know if genesis came out before or after jag (and not willing to check wiki either), as at that time I was caught in an upgrade fever as a proper PC gamer.

 

RoadRash looks like it has a pretty terrible framerate for a 2D game, though ! Not sure if it's just the capture problem, or an actual performance ?!? That almost looks like it's around 15 fps...

 

Aladdin looks , from memory, exactly same as on PC. Any idea which platform was the reference one for Aladdin ?

Sega Genesis (the Megadrive) in Japan launched in late 1988, so its almost 5 years older tech than the Jag. In late 1994 Sega launched the Sega 32X add on for the Genesis, in response to the Jaguar and 3DO systems.

 

I love Genesis Road Rash. Yeah, its a bit choppy, but its doing sprite scaling in software unlike most 2d racer from the 16 bit era, and the road has hills.

 

Aladdin on Genesis was the original. The Amiga run only on AGA i think.

[Lost Dragon]

 

Another example of clever coding routines on Genesis..

 

Genesis has taken a lot of flak for it's 3D over the years with Jez San thinking it was nothing but a 2D box and the Sega CD,not the SVP chip, was Sega combating the SNES FX Chip..

 

Corporation aka Cyber Cop from Core Design another good example.

 

Some Amiga press claimed it was smoother on Genesis than Amiga.

 

Having grown up with 3D games on the ST..

 

Hunter, Midwinter 2, Starglider 2, Battle Command, Infestation etc..

 

I expected the leap on Jaguar to be greater than it was considering the custom chipsets it was packing , claims Atari made.

[Lost Dragon]

 

Genesis version of this supposed to be 90% complete, i had always hoped

for a Jaguar version myself..

[VladR]

1. The current Wolfenstein 3D homebrew is pretty impressive. Star Cruiser is fully polygonal!, and plays nice.There is also Duke Nukem 3d, looks cool but plays bad.

2. F1 Championship is related to the Amiga Vroom! Combines polygons ands sprites. Kawasaki Super Bike Challenge uses the same engine.

3.

4. Sonic and Knuckles, Ristar, Dynamite Heady, Mickey Mania. For more action oriented stuff Contra Hard Corps, Alien Soldier, Batman and Robin, Gunstar Heroes, Vectorman.

Just checked Wolf and it is indeed mighty impressive. Same for F1 Championship, which uses much more advanced road algorithm than I've see in similar games of the era.

 

Sega Genesis (the Megadrive) in Japan launched in late 1988, so its almost 5 years older tech than the Jag. In late 1994 Sega launched the Sega 32X add on for the Genesis, in response to the Jaguar and 3DO systems.

 

I love Genesis Road Rash. Yeah, its a bit choppy, but its doing sprite scaling in software unlike most 2d racer from the 16 bit era, and the road has hills.

 

Aladdin on Genesis was the original. The Amiga run only on AGA i think.

I just checked wiki, and yeah. 1988. If someone showed me RoadRash in 1988 (or whenever it came out), my jaw would be on the floor, for sure - as at that time I had Atari 800. I was quite shocked by Aladdin, and that was much later than 1988 (I think I played it on PC around '93 or so, not sure exact year)

 

 

 

Example of what, if you're not comparing Genesis vs. Jaguar? Genesis was about 5 years prior to Jaguar, so the jump really /should/have been greater. The CPU that is shared between them, the Motorola 68000, runs at different clock speeds, so it's not like one gets an apples to apples comparison even when considering that alone. Genesis ran it at 7.61 MHz, Jaguar at 13.295 MHz.

 

The Jag was "helped" by having several ports of popular games, but since they weren't notably different/better than the versions on other systems, the Jag ended up looking weaker. Dragon Bruce Lee, Double Dragon V, Flashback, NBA Jam TE, Pinball Fantasies, Pitfall Mayan Adventure, Theme Park, and Zoop are a significant portion of the system's library.

 

Road Rash is not a fast FPS game, but it looks a heck of a lot better than any Atari Jaguar games from 1991.

 

Aladdin for DOS < Aladdin for Genesis, according to GOG reviewers. https://www.gog.com/game/disney_aladdin

I can now better understand the sentiment. Thanks for the perspective. Jag really doesn't look that much more powerful than Genesis, if you take a look at the games above, and there's half decade of difference, plus it has two fast RISCs, and 2 MB (instead of 72 + 64 KB). Yeah, if I had Genesis at that time, and jag came out, with the library it had, I'm sure I'd be like "WTF?"

I haven't played genesis version of Aladdin, so I can not complain. Ignorance is bliss, eh ?

 

Since they sold 30Mil of 'em, they should be pretty cheap to pick up today, no ?