Can the boom sound from arcade game Astro Blaster be recreated on the 2600?

[+Random Terrain]

I'm talking about the boom sound you hear when you shoot the enemies in the 1981 arcade game Astro Blaster. I grabbed a little clip of the arcade game sound from a video made by Old Classic Retro Gaming so you can hear it without sitting through a bunch of other stuff:

youtube.com/watch?v=A_cdWqYMQBE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_cdWqYMQBE

 

If you played the short video, you can hear that it's kind of a deep, muffled boom. I know I probably can't legally use the arcade game sound in an Atari 2600 game or in an Atari 2600 batari Basic example program, but it would be nice to know if it's possible to recreate. I've tried various things, but I don't know enough about sound to figure it out. This is the best I've come up with so far and it doesn't even sound close:

 

crappy attempt at astro blaster boom sound.bin

 

If the 1981 arcade game enemy death boom sound can be recreated on the Atari 2600, we could use the technique to make similar boom sounds and legally use the sound effects in games.

 

 

Update (2017y_07m_04d_0306t)

 

This one is based on a sound from Moonsweeper:

 

crappy attempt at astro blaster boom sound 02.bin

 

I think that's the best I can do.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Astroblaster uses only the TIA, so I assume yes.

 

You can also do speech too, not only in Astroblaster but Quadrun and others. And Draconian has speech during gameplay, without the AtariVox. So presumably you could add 4-bit 15kHz samples of anything to any game, or brew your own synthesizer tracks by "stuffing" the TIA. See also Chetiry and Pitfall II.

[RevEng]

Does this work better for you?

 

boom.bas

boom.bas.bin

 

It's more or less a 7800basic sound effect, where the AUDF/AUDC/AUDV are updated from a table every 60th of a second. This means there's a fair amount of texture with irregular AUD register changes, but it makes the data a bit expansive.

[+Random Terrain]

Does this work better for you?

 

boom.bas

boom.bas.bin

 

It's more or less a 7800basic sound effect, where the AUDF/AUDC/AUDV are updated from a table every 60th of a second. This means there's a fair amount of texture with irregular AUD register changes, but it makes the data a bit expansive.

 

Thanks for trying, but nope. That doesn't sound right.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Ask PMP, it is his game.

[PacManPlus]

I was not able to recreate that sound effectively, so I just tried to create a good 'explosion' sound.

[RevEng]

It seems the original game used samples, so I don't think you can very accurately duplicate the sound without samples. A realistic explosion sound effect will have various frequencies in parallel, each with their own envelope, and will no doubt be more dynamic than the 60Hz updates we typically use for sound effects.

[+Random Terrain]

It seems the original game used samples, so I don't think you can very accurately duplicate the sound without samples. A realistic explosion sound effect will have various frequencies in parallel, each with their own envelope, and will no doubt be more dynamic than the 60Hz updates we typically use for sound effects.

If I (or anyone reading this) could just figure out how to simulate the muffle of an Atari 2600 sound, we might be able to get close.

 

 

 

I was not able to recreate that sound effectively, so I just tried to create a good 'explosion' sound.

Speaking of making a good explosion sound, I was just looking at the last sound that Kaboom! uses whenever you miss (right after the bombs "pop"). It's just a generic 8 tone at a frequency of 31 with the volume going from 15 down to 0 (holding each for 2 frames). Seems like a good place to start.

 

I wish I understood the process of muffling a sound and if it's possible to do on the Atari 2600. A muffled version of the Kaboom! sound would be almost perfect.

[Andromeda Stardust]

By "muffle" perhaps the audio is high- or low-passing the sound?

 

I have my Polk Monitor 40 Series II speakers at home biwired using my amp's A/B function, and the speakers sound very "muffled" when the tweeters get turned off, like someone's putting a pillow over the speaker. And when you cut off the woofers with audio passed to the tweeters only, human speech sounds like buzzing mosquitoes.

 

Someone recorded output from their VCS playing bass notes and opened it in audacity to study the waveforms, and the distortion curve looked like a textbook example of a high pass. Something to think about, the VCS does apply a bit of analog filtering on the audio which color and shape the sound. It's not just discrete output from the TIA pins.

[+Random Terrain]

This one is based on a sound from Moonsweeper:

 

crappy attempt at astro blaster boom sound 02.bin

 

I think that's the best I can do.

[RevEng]

By "muffle" perhaps the audio is high- or low-passing the sound?

 

I have my Polk Monitor 40 Series II speakers at home biwired using my amp's A/B function, and the speakers sound very "muffled" when the tweeters get turned off, like someone's putting a pillow over the speaker. And when you cut off the woofers with audio passed to the tweeters only, human speech sounds like buzzing mosquitoes.

 

Someone recorded output from their VCS playing bass notes and opened it in audacity to study the waveforms, and the distortion curve looked like a textbook example of a high pass. Something to think about, the VCS does apply a bit of analog filtering on the audio which color and shape the sound. It's not just discrete output from the TIA pins.

The muffled sound in the arcade game is low-passing, but in this case I think it's just because the arcade sample is recorded+played at a fairly low frequency. Nyquist rate, and all that.

 

It was SeaGtGruff that did the study you're talking about. Pretty much all consumer audio gear has capacitors in series with the signal output, to block DC in the signal. What SeaGtGruff observed was only the DC component being blocked. This would also block very low frequencies, but I don't believe it's an attempt to shape the sound, so much as an attempt to avoid burning out the audio circuits or speaker coil in somebody's TV.

 

It's even likely that his soundcard had caps to block DC at the inputs. I once converted a USB soundcard to capture digital signals, by bypassing the dc blocking caps on its inputs.

[Trebor]

The Astro Blaster 'boom' sound, reminds me of the sound that is heard when there is a collision in Rally-X or the explosion sound in Bosconian.

 

I recall similar discussion of how the (previously used) samples never sound(ed) 'right' and much had to do with the corresponding filtering component(s) need to be in place to have the 'right' sound heard or/and be placed in the right environment (I.E. enclosed cabinet, same quality/speaker type, etc.)

 

In the case of Bosconian, the sound making up the 'boom' incorporate: Namco_54XX and a discrete filter component.

 

Rally-X still utilizes a sample for its 'boom' (bang)...bang.wav

 

Astro Blaster still uses samples as well. The full set can be downloaded here.

 

Narrowed down to the short and long 'booms' respectively:

 

eexplode.wav

pexplode.wav

 

Source code to Astro Blaster's sound generation under MAME (and planned future discrete emulation details) is under segag80r.cpp.

 

See a snippet of it in the spoiler below...

 

 

/*************************************
*
* Astro Blaster sound hardware
*
*************************************/

/*
Description of Astro Blaster sounds (in the hope of future discrete goodness):

CD4017 = decade counter with one output per decoded stage (10 outputs altogether)
CD4024 = 7-bit counter with 7 outputs


"V" signal
----------
CD4017 @ U15:
reset by RATE RESET signal = 1
clocked by falling edge of ATTACK signal
+12V output from here goes through a diode and one of 10 resistors:
0 = 120k
1 = 82k
2 = 62k
3 = 56k
4 = 47k
5 = 39k
6 = 35k
7 = 27k
8 = 24k
9 = 22k
and then in series through a 22k resistor

Op-amp @ U6 takes the WARP signal and the output of CD4017 @ U15
and forms the signal "V" which is used to control the invader
sounds


How to calculate the output voltage at U16 labeled (V).
(Derrick Renaud)

First you have an inverting amp. To get the gain you
use G=-Rf/Ri, where Rf=R178=22k. Ri is the selected
resistor on the output of U15.

The input voltage to the amp (pin 6) will always be
about 12V - 0.5V (diode drop in low current circuit) =
11.5V.

Now you need to calculate the reference voltage on the
+ input (pin 5). Depending on the state of WARP...

If the warp data is 0, then U31 inverts it to an Open
Collector high, meaning WARP is out of circuit. So:
Vref = 12V * (R163)/(R162+R163)
= 12V * 10k/(10K+4.7k)
= 8.163V

When warp data is 1, then U31 inverts it to low,
grounding R164 putting it in parallel with R163,
giving:
Vref = 12V * (R163||R164)/(R163||R164 +R162)
= 12V * 5k/(5k+4.7k)
= 6.186V

Now to get the control voltage V:
V = (Vi - Vref) * G + Vref
= (11.5V - Vref) * G + Vref

That gives you the control voltage at V. From there I
would have to millman the voltage with the internal
voltage/resistors of the 555 to get the actual used
control voltage.

But it seems you just want a range, so just use the
above info to get the highest and lowest voltages
generated, and create the frequency shift you desire.
Remember as the control voltage (V) lowers, the
frequency increases.

 

 

[Andromeda Stardust]

The muffled sound in the arcade game is low-passing, but in this case I think it's just because the arcade sample is recorded+played at a fairly low frequency. Nyquist rate, and all that.

 

It was SeaGtGruff that did the study you're talking about. Pretty much all consumer audio gear has capacitors in series with the signal output, to block DC in the signal. What SeaGtGruff observed was only the DC component being blocked. This would also block very low frequencies, but I don't believe it's an attempt to shape the sound, so much as an attempt to avoid burning out the audio circuits or speaker coil in somebody's TV.

 

It's even likely that his soundcard had caps to block DC at the inputs. I once converted a USB soundcard to capture digital signals, by bypassing the dc blocking caps on its inputs.

I'm a pretty big fan of bass. A lot of sound hardware including HiFi doesn't have standardized high pass filters and can be all over the place. Most equipment also low passes around 20kHz, typically a brick wall filter in case a ADC is used. Presence of any harmonic content above half the sample rate of an ADC can cause nasty artifacts in the audible range. I myself can hear 12-17000 Hz, quite high for a 36 year old male. I can still hear those ringtones and stuff that only kids and teens are supposed to detect, largely because I didn't ruin my hearing with junk earbuds like much of the iPod generation that came after did.

 

On the low end, 20Hz high pass is typical on HiFi equipment, but most TVs and consumer electronics with crappy speakers use smallish caps to protect the speakers which protect them by limiting excursion. Many flat panel TVs don't produce much of anything below 200Hz. Terrible sound quality. Did the bass guitarist not show up to the gig? Because it certainly sound like they are absent. Back to high pass, Certain classical instruments do excurse down below 20Hz, specifically large pipe organs with fundamentals extending down to 16Hz, which need special subs to be appreciated, as well as large kettle drums which can feel like a punch in the chest when performed live. Five string bass players got nothing on the pipe organist. I've still yet to hear a speaker system that is capable of recreating the sound and feeling of live drums or cannon fire, but I am sure they exist.

 

I think Apple got a lot of flack from audiophiles some years ago with early gen iPods because they cheaped out on the caps protecting the headphone output, and listeners who used low impedance studio listening over the ear style headphones were greeted by a distinct lack of bass. But you wouldn't notice using the cheap earbuds they came with...

 

THX certification is even crap since they dictate an 80Hz active Xover. Sure you can disable bass management on your sound system by setting the speaker type to "large", which works great for music, but 5.1, 7.1 mastered movie scores already siphon the sub 80Hz content to the bass channel so you're still only getting THX sound even if you have HiFi speakers that exceed this capability on all 5 channels. And "upmixed" stereo content sounds like crap anyway, fun but not a faithful reproduction.

 

Years ago I had a surround sound system with crappy cubed satellites and an overcompensated sub, which overall led to a boom boom sound yet totally lacking in midbass. Then I got some real Polk Monitor 40 speakers (MTM "D'appolito" design) with ample highs and lows, none of the "shouty" mid-tones like most small full rangers have, clean, undistorted sound coming from a single pair of 2-way speakers, passively crossed at 2.3kHz, flat response from about 45Hz to beyond human range on the high end, and an 8" sub with speaker level inputs, barely on, low-passed around 60Hz to cover the bass region down to around 20Hz. That Sony 50w sub is small but packs a punch, and I can hear (and feel) the fundamental frequencies of organ music when played back, despite the 28Hz factory spec it goes much lower. Don't trust nameplates; they are rarely accurate since each manufacturer uses their own standards. My Sony solid state stereo amp is rated 10Hz-70kHz but still displaces woofers if I run 5Hz even down to 1Hz tones through it. Inside it's got four massive can caps in conjunction with the speaker outputs. Cinema and movies sound great in HiFi stereo too. Do I miss the LoFi surround? No I do not. I'll take 2 great sounding speakers over 5 crappy ones any day.

 

I'm gonna get off my soapbox now...

[vidak]

I'm a pretty big fan of bass. A lot of sound hardware including HiFi doesn't have standardized high pass filters and can be all over the place. Most equipment also low passes around 20kHz, typically a brick wall filter in case a ADC is used. Presence of any harmonic content above half the sample rate of an ADC can cause nasty artifacts in the audible range. I myself can hear 12-17000 Hz, quite high for a 36 year old male. I can still hear those ringtones and stuff that only kids and teens are supposed to detect, largely because I didn't ruin my hearing with junk earbuds like much of the iPod generation that came after did.

 

On the low end, 20Hz high pass is typical on HiFi equipment, but most TVs and consumer electronics with crappy speakers use smallish caps to protect the speakers which protect them by limiting excursion. Many flat panel TVs don't produce much of anything below 200Hz. Terrible sound quality. Did the bass guitarist not show up to the gig? Because it certainly sound like they are absent. Back to high pass, Certain classical instruments do excurse down below 20Hz, specifically large pipe organs with fundamentals extending down to 16Hz, which need special subs to be appreciated, as well as large kettle drums which can feel like a punch in the chest when performed live. Five string bass players got nothing on the pipe organist. I've still yet to hear a speaker system that is capable of recreating the sound and feeling of live drums or cannon fire, but I am sure they exist.

 

I think Apple got a lot of flack from audiophiles some years ago with early gen iPods because they cheaped out on the caps protecting the headphone output, and listeners who used low impedance studio listening over the ear style headphones were greeted by a distinct lack of bass. But you wouldn't notice using the cheap earbuds they came with...

 

THX certification is even crap since they dictate an 80Hz active Xover. Sure you can disable bass management on your sound system by setting the speaker type to "large", which works great for music, but 5.1, 7.1 mastered movie scores already siphon the sub 80Hz content to the bass channel so you're still only getting THX sound even if you have HiFi speakers that exceed this capability on all 5 channels. And "upmixed" stereo content sounds like crap anyway, fun but not a faithful reproduction.

 

Years ago I had a surround sound system with crappy cubed satellites and an overcompensated sub, which overall led to a boom boom sound yet totally lacking in midbass. Then I got some real Polk Monitor 40 speakers (MTM "D'appolito" design) with ample highs and lows, none of the "shouty" mid-tones like most small full rangers have, clean, undistorted sound coming from a single pair of 2-way speakers, passively crossed at 2.3kHz, flat response from about 45Hz to beyond human range on the high end, and an 8" sub with speaker level inputs, barely on, low-passed around 60Hz to cover the bass region down to around 20Hz. That Sony 50w sub is small but packs a punch, and I can hear (and feel) the fundamental frequencies of organ music when played back, despite the 28Hz factory spec it goes much lower. Don't trust nameplates; they are rarely accurate since each manufacturer uses their own standards. My Sony solid state stereo amp is rated 10Hz-70kHz but still displaces woofers if I run 5Hz even down to 1Hz tones through it. Inside it's got four massive can caps in conjunction with the speaker outputs. Cinema and movies sound great in HiFi stereo too. Do I miss the LoFi surround? No I do not. I'll take 2 great sounding speakers over 5 crappy ones any day.

 

I'm gonna get off my soapbox now...

this is a bloody awesome post!

 

I just bought a pair of 6 inch bookshelf speakers and they've done wonders for movies. I am noticing things in all my favorite movies I have never noticed before! Good sound makes all the difference.

[vidak]

For instance in characters touching musty, dusty wine bottles in a cold cellar. There's a sound for that!

[Andromeda Stardust]

For instance in characters touching musty, dusty wine bottles in a cold cellar. There's a sound for that!

Problem with hifi sound is once you've experienced it at home, you can't go back to listening to tinny speakers again. When I go over to someone's house and they are using the built in speakers in the HDTV flat panel, it is just ear grating to my ears.

 

Long ago I could listen to bad speakers and it didn't bother me. Not anymore...

[ZylonBane]

Astroblaster uses only the TIA, so I assume yes.

 

You do understand they're talking about the ARCADE Astro Blaster, yes?

 

 

As for reproducing the sound, I'd try using both sound channels simultaneously. After listening to the sample WAV loop over and over a few times, I realized it kind of sounded like a bass drum hit. So maybe mix some deep square wave into it. And don't just linearly drop off the volume; the original sound lingers a bit at the loud end before dropping off.

Edited July 16, 2017 by ZylonBane

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

You do understand they're talking about the ARCADE Astro Blaster, yes?

I haven't played the arcade game to compare to. Does the MAME version have to use samples? If so I can just pull the WAV file.

 

I've got a Rapberry Pi box that needs tweaking. It uses the v0.35b7 set btw.

[+SpiceWare]

If so I can just pull the WAV file.

http://samples.mameworld.info

[Andromeda Stardust]

http://samples.mameworld.info

Okay I downloaded astrob.zip

 

Which sample is the OP referring to?

[vidak]

Problem with hifi sound is once you've experienced it at home, you can't go back to listening to tinny speakers again. When I go over to someone's house and they are using the built in speakers in the HDTV flat panel, it is just ear grating to my ears.

 

Long ago I could listen to bad speakers and it didn't bother me. Not anymore...

it's so true. I can't stand tinny earbuds anymore, after being gifted some expensive headphones.

[Andromeda Stardust]

it's so true. I can't stand tinny earbuds anymore, after being gifted some expensive headphones.

Ionly use giant poofy over the ear studio monitors. Sony sells a wonderful studio headphone that's like $20 but my favorite is the "extra bass" headphones with 40mm drivers that go down to 4Hz. No that's not a typo. I paid like $80 for them and they were totally worth it.

 

It's a whole other ball game with HiFi sound from speakers though. Sure you hear good sound going to a movie theater or something but when you have HiFi in your own home and get used to listening on quality monitors, literally everything else sounds like crap from then on.

 

Your sitting in the dentist office. Crappy sound coming from table top radio. Your friend who just uses his laptop or cellphone speaker to play music, and can afford a decent 50 inch HDTV yet just plays sound off the built in speakers and doesn't even bother with a simple sound bar (sound bars are passable in my book, but no substitute for discrete speakers).

 

Yet I'm down with simple sound that doesn't have to be HiFi. Cheap single full range drivers of 3"-5" can sound great when given a proper sealed enclosure. If you don't know the parameters of the speaker, just use a sealed enclosure. Ported can jack up the sound if you don't tune it right.

 

I blast this in my backyard while doing woodworking. Salvaged 5" full range speakers with built in whizzer cones (free, pulled from a busted up rear projection TV left by the dumpster) and a $5 briefcase from the Salvation Army thrift store. Rest of the parts I had to pay retail for. A million times better sound than any tabletop radio and awesome cool factor. The masonite resonates slightly and gives it a vintage sounding quality but the large sealed enclosure still allows for ample bass.

 

And we have completely derailed this thread!

[vidak]

Hahaha we totally have.

 

I feel a homebrew video game concept forming: Attack of the Audiophiles. You have to avoid shit audio, and stay in the path of good audio.

OKAY ENOUGH ABOUT COOL SPEAKERS

[+Random Terrain]

This thread wasn't listed under My Content, so I didn't know anyone was still posting in it. I randomly clicked on View New Content last night and there it was in the list.

As for reproducing the sound, I'd try using both sound channels simultaneously. After listening to the sample WAV loop over and over a few times, I realized it kind of sounded like a bass drum hit. So maybe mix some deep square wave into it. And don't just linearly drop off the volume; the original sound lingers a bit at the loud end before dropping off.

In this case, I'm working on an example program for the batari Basic page that has background "music" (more like a hum noise), so I'm stuck using one channel:

 

nusiz_example_2017y_07m_17d_0954t.bin

 

It's an adapted version of a program by iesposta to show how bB users can use NUSIZ copies.

Which sample is the OP referring to?

It's probably eexplode.wav, the same sound in the YouTube video clip that I embedded in the first post.

[Andromeda Stardust]

This thread wasn't listed under My Content, so I didn't know anyone was still posting in it. I randomly clicked on View New Content last night and there it was in the list.

 

 

In this case, I'm working on an example program for the batari Basic page that has background "music" (more like a hum noise), so I'm stuck using one channel:

 

nusiz_example_2017y_07m_17d_0954t.bin

 

It's an adapted version of a program by iesposta to show how bB users can use NUSIZ copies.

 

 

 

It's probably eexplode.wav, the same sound in the YouTube video clip that I embedded in the first post.

This is awesome. I think the "eexplode" sound effect is pretty close to the wav samples.