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Different AV mods for 2600 4-switcher, Jr. and 7800 ?

AV Mod Jr. 2600 4-switcher 7800

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#1 RamrodHare OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 4, 2017 9:09 PM

I used a couple of the cheap AV mods a while back on my 2600 Vader and my 7800. The mod worked out great on the 7800. The picture is very clear and there is no color bleeding. 

 

 On my Vader (4-switch, revision 12 board), the picture is, well, terrible. There is quite a bit of color bleeding and it makes most of the text or scores, unreadable and some games are so much of a mess that they hurt my eyes.

 

I recently bought a 2600 Jr. that I intended to use the RF on, since the picture is fine. The issue is, I'm running into a lot of compatibility issues with different TVs. I bought the Jr. because I wanted an Atari that was easier to transport to friends homes and such, but a lot of new TVs just won't work with the RF signal and carrying a VCR around is worse than just carrying my 7800.

 

 Now here's what I'm wondering..

Isn't the Jr similar to the 7800, as far as how the video output is handled? If so, shouldn't the cheap mod work just as well on it as id does on my 7800?

I know that the 7800 uses a 4050 chip and I'm guessing that has something to do with the cheap AV mod working and the Jr. has the same chip, right?

I also know that the Vader doesn't have this chip and the cheap mod doesn't work as well. So.....

 

(I hope I'm making sense and not just rambling. :P  )

 

If I'm right, I'm thinking about pulling the mod board from the 4-switcher and using it in the Jr. Then buying a mod kit that is better suited for the 4-switcher.

 

If my thinking is correct and the cheap mod will work fine on the Jr, What mod should I install in  the Vader/4-switcher?

 

I have heard nothing but good reviews on the UAV mod and it's the only one that people have been talking about lately. I also read a post from a few years ago about a mod that uses the 4050 chip, but the circuit was really complicated to build and I'm not the best at soldering.. So, what's the recommendation? :grin:

 



#2 H454 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 4, 2017 9:51 PM

I used a couple of the cheap AV mods a while back on my 2600 Vader and my 7800. The mod worked out great on the 7800. The picture is very clear and there is no color bleeding. 

 

 On my Vader (4-switch, revision 12 board), the picture is, well, terrible. There is quite a bit of color bleeding and it makes most of the text or scores, unreadable and some games are so much of a mess that they hurt my eyes.

 

I recently bought a 2600 Jr. that I intended to use the RF on, since the picture is fine. The issue is, I'm running into a lot of compatibility issues with different TVs. I bought the Jr. because I wanted an Atari that was easier to transport to friends homes and such, but a lot of new TVs just won't work with the RF signal and carrying a VCR around is worse than just carrying my 7800.

 

 Now here's what I'm wondering..

Isn't the Jr similar to the 7800, as far as how the video output is handled? If so, shouldn't the cheap mod work just as well on it as id does on my 7800?

I know that the 7800 uses a 4050 chip and I'm guessing that has something to do with the cheap AV mod working and the Jr. has the same chip, right?

I also know that the Vader doesn't have this chip and the cheap mod doesn't work as well. So.....

 


 

 

The Jr. is just a small form factor 4 switch.

 

As for the UAV - the six switches have a 4050, the Jr have 4050 and some? or none of the 4 switchers have a 4050.

 

The 7800 has a maria(cpu) chip and has 2600 chips in it for backwards compatibility and I think most of the sound is with a 2600 sound chip unless the cart has a pokey chip in it.

UAV 2600 info:

https://atariage.com...-8#entry3412340



#3 DrVenkman OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 5, 2017 4:38 PM

 

The Jr. is just a small form factor 4 switch.

 

As for the UAV - the six switches have a 4050, the Jr have 4050 and some? or none of the 4 switchers have a 4050.

 

The 7800 has a maria(cpu) chip and has 2600 chips in it for backwards compatibility and I think most of the sound is with a 2600 sound chip unless the cart has a pokey chip in it.

UAV 2600 info:

https://atariage.com...-8#entry3412340

 

You don't need a 4050 (which is just a hex buffer) to use a UAV  - I put one into one of my 4-Switch Woodies a month or to back. Works and looks great. 



#4 CRTGAMER OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 5, 2017 4:46 PM

I performed a basic AV Mod for my 7800, only cost ten bucks! The seller also has 2600 kits as well, see link below. I went Composite only for the cost and the durability of a "PlugNPlay" vs the higher grade SVideo connection. The large pixels of the 7800 and 2600 games work just fine with composite a huge improvement over RF on my CRT TV.

 

Atari 7800 Composite Mod - http://www.racketboy...078108#p1078108

 

Atari-2600-7800-Composite-Video-Mod-Upgr

Attached Thumbnails

  • Atari 7800 RCA Output.jpg

Edited by CRTGAMER, Wed Jul 5, 2017 4:52 PM.


#5 H454 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 5, 2017 5:22 PM

 

You don't need a 4050 (which is just a hex buffer) to use a UAV  - I put one into one of my 4-Switch Woodies a month or to back. Works and looks great. 

Yea, that's why put the instructions link up with it.

The 4050 just makes less wiring, but solder and desoldering, so really between installing into with a 4050 as to with out, the time / labor is about the same.

The main difference is which is harder for the person installing it?

Finding pin out/solder points for the non 4050 or easier wiring and desoldering the 4050 and installing a socket.

 

The ES/ longhorn and UAV(no 4050) are just soldering to different points on a vader(the vaders I've seen are usually a rev. 14 board).

I've installed both the 2600 RGB and the ES mod, the RGB is actually a little easier! (will be installing A UAV into a 7800 later)

 

I performed a basic AV Mod for my 7800, only cost ten bucks! The seller also has 2600 kits as well, see link below. I went Composite only for the cost and the durability of a "PlugNPlay" vs the higher grade SVideo connection. The large pixels of the 7800 and 2600 games work just fine with composite a huge improvement over RF on my CRT TV.

 

Atari 7800 Composite Mod - http://www.racketboy...078108#p1078108

http://vintagegaming...-video-mod-kit/

 

That style is fine too, but if you have ANY TV that has a s-video input, the difference is night and day.

If can use s-video, DO IT!

Most of the s-video mods have much better quality composite than the mods that just add a few resistors and call it a day.

At minimum, if I'm modding video, I want something that has good out put regulation. The boards with IC output have that.

 

Either way, s-video is like an extra $15 for like $30 total.

 

2600s are cheap, try a mod you like. If you need help just ask and you will figure it out.icon_thumbsup.gif



#6 RamrodHare OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 5, 2017 9:13 PM

Thanks to everyone for the responses, but I'm not sure I worded my initial post correctly. :?   

Also, it seems that I really need answers from people who have modded Jr.s and revision 12 4-switchers, since that's what I'm working with and what works on other board revisions and 7800's, may not apply to my current situation.

 

 

My 7800, with the cheap mod board (similar to the ones mentioned) is working fine. It has a great picture, there's no reason for me to change it. I just mention it as a reference to the fact that the cheap mod works fine.

 

Here's the important part..The same mod on my 4-switch (revision 12 board in a Vader shell), doesn't work as well. The colors are bleeding badly and it doesn't make a difference what TV I connect it to. I even swapped the mod boards to be sure it wasn't a problem there.

 

I've read that the Jr and the 7800, both have better picture with the cheap mod, than the 4-switchers do. ( I don't know why, I just guessed it was something to do with the 4050 chip, but I guess that's not the case.)

 

What I'm trying to determine, without doing a bunch of desoldering and resoldering, is,

 

A. Does anyone know if the cheap mod does work better on the Jr. than on my rev. 12 4-switcher?

and

B. What's a good mod to use on the rev. 12 4-switcher to get a clear picture from composite, without the color bleeding? (I know from experience now, that the cheap mod doesn't work very well.)

 

I'm thinking the revision 12 board has something to do with the cheap mod not working as well. I know the revision 12 is missing a lot of components when compared to a revision 16 board. So I'm not sure if mods that work well on newer revisions will have the same picture quality on mine. Of course, I'm no expert at all, that's why I'm asking for help. :(

 

I also need to point out that I'm on a very small, fixed income, so I have to really be careful where I spend my money and how much I spend .  I'm hoping to draw from the knowledge of the members here, to keep from doing any expensive trial and error modding. I can usually spend about $50 a month on my hobbies and still pay the bills. Any more than that and I'll be deciding if I want to have running water, food, or my medicines. The UAV mod is within my price range, but I'd like to hear from someone as to it's effectiveness when connected to a revision 12 board before I sink any money into it. To better my chance, I'll ask that in the UAV thread also. :) I just decided to send Bryan a PM instead.


Edited by RamrodHare, Wed Jul 5, 2017 9:49 PM.


#7 DrVenkman OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 6, 2017 4:48 AM

Thanks to everyone for the responses, but I'm not sure I worded my initial post correctly. :?   

Also, it seems that I really need answers from people who have modded Jr.s and revision 12 4-switchers, since that's what I'm working with and what works on other board revisions and 7800's, may not apply to my current situation.

 

 

My 7800, with the cheap mod board (similar to the ones mentioned) is working fine. It has a great picture, there's no reason for me to change it. I just mention it as a reference to the fact that the cheap mod works fine.

 

Here's the important part..The same mod on my 4-switch (revision 12 board in a Vader shell), doesn't work as well. The colors are bleeding badly and it doesn't make a difference what TV I connect it to. I even swapped the mod boards to be sure it wasn't a problem there.

 

I've read that the Jr and the 7800, both have better picture with the cheap mod, than the 4-switchers do. ( I don't know why, I just guessed it was something to do with the 4050 chip, but I guess that's not the case.)

 

What I'm trying to determine, without doing a bunch of desoldering and resoldering, is,

 

A. Does anyone know if the cheap mod does work better on the Jr. than on my rev. 12 4-switcher?

and

B. What's a good mod to use on the rev. 12 4-switcher to get a clear picture from composite, without the color bleeding? (I know from experience now, that the cheap mod doesn't work very well.)

 

I'm thinking the revision 12 board has something to do with the cheap mod not working as well. I know the revision 12 is missing a lot of components when compared to a revision 16 board. So I'm not sure if mods that work well on newer revisions will have the same picture quality on mine. Of course, I'm no expert at all, that's why I'm asking for help. :(

 

I also need to point out that I'm on a very small, fixed income, so I have to really be careful where I spend my money and how much I spend .  I'm hoping to draw from the knowledge of the members here, to keep from doing any expensive trial and error modding. I can usually spend about $50 a month on my hobbies and still pay the bills. Any more than that and I'll be deciding if I want to have running water, food, or my medicines. The UAV mod is within my price range, but I'd like to hear from someone as to it's effectiveness when connected to a revision 12 board before I sink any money into it. To better my chance, I'll ask that in the UAV thread also. :) I just decided to send Bryan a PM instead.

 

 

The only point I can comment on directly from personal experience is that you'll get excellent results from Bryan's UAV no matter what system you use it in. You can grab all the video signals directly from the TIA chip before it gets mangled by the rest of the system circuitry (either from the shoulders of the chip or from the pins under the board). The only signals you're probably better off grabbing elsewhere are +5V and Ground, which are easy to pick up from the former location of the RF Modulator. By grabbing the signals from the TIA itself, the rest of the variations introduced by motherboard revision differences don't matter; you're taking the signals before they even reach the rest of the board. :)
 
It needs more individual signals than most of the cheap or DIY designs out there, but the results are worth it in my opinion.


#8 RamrodHare OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 6, 2017 8:25 PM

 

 
It needs more individual signals than most of the cheap or DIY designs out there, but the results are worth it in my opinion.

 

 

 

I'm going to give the UAV a try. I have no doubt that it will be much better than the cheap mod board, but it's probably gonna take me a week to dig up enough extra money to afford it. :_(

 

Once I've got the UAV installed in the Vader, I'll probably try the cheap board in the Jr and see if it works well enough, if it doesn't, I'll have to dig up more money to get another UAV board. :P 

I have a feeling I'll be eating Ramen Noodles for a month. :lolblue:  



#9 -^CrožBow^- OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 6, 2017 10:04 PM

 

Once I've got the UAV installed in the Vader, I'll probably try the cheap board in the Jr and see if it works well enough, if it doesn't, I'll have to dig up more money to get another UAV board. :P

I have a feeling I'll be eating Ramen Noodles for a month. :lolblue:  

 

The UAV is worth eating Top Ramen for!!



#10 RamrodHare OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 6, 2017 11:10 PM

 

The UAV is worth eating Top Ramen for!!

I'm sure it is. I've seen nothing but good reviews. I just wish I had the money to go ahead and order it, but I've got too many things to pay for this coming week. The pharmacy keeps changing the prices on my medications, so I never know what it's going to cost from one month to the next and I'll be refilling them Monday. After that, I have to renew my tags and get car insurance. Life tends to have a way of ruining all my fun. :(



#11 -^CrožBow^- OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 7, 2017 7:31 AM

I know you stated you're on a fixed budget and I can certainly appreciate that. Have you contacted Bryan about the UAV? I'm not sure he has posted the price, but the basic board (which is all you need for the 7800 and steady hands for what I consider to be fairly small solder points on the board) is $25 shipped. I picked up a couple so I could mod my 130XE and 2 spares as I have a few 7800s headed my way in the future to get modded for other members. Point is, because they are so small and light. Bryan can ship quite a few at once for a single shipping price.

 

So I do hope you can get the means soon to pick one of these up. Not sure how many Bryan has ready at the moment as I had to wait slightly for this second batch I had sent to me but might send him a PM all the same to ask about availability and confirm the price. That way you are ready when he is.

 

I'm looking forward to his new audio board as well! That will allow modding a 7800 with the s-video and RCA audio outs without having to cut the resistors. That will allow the RF to still function fully if needed or desired.



#12 shear_xear OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:27 AM

Hey, I know this is a little late, but the cheap Composite mod will look similar to what you get from the 7800. Easily the best looking picture out of any of the 2600's.

#13 RamrodHare OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:18 PM

Hey, I know this is a little late, but the cheap Composite mod will look similar to what you get from the 7800. Easily the best looking picture out of any of the 2600's.

I'm guessing you are talking about the the Jr, correct?

If so, that's what I was hoping to hear.



#14 shear_xear OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:44 PM

Yeah, sorry for being vague. The Jr. looks great with the cheap mod.

#15 RamrodHare OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:16 PM

Yeah, sorry for being vague. The Jr. looks great with the cheap mod.

Thanks!   :-D



#16 WERY OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:57 AM

I did like this when I modified my Light Sixer to C-Video:

VideoComputerSystem AV-mod.JPG

And like this, when I modified my 7800 ProSystem to C-Video:

7800 ProSystem AV-mod.JPG

 







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