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How big a deal is this really: 3.3V Flash in Retro Consoles?

3.3v Flash 5v Mods Everdrives

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#26 Tusecsy ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:27 PM

What's with all the comments about missing ground leads when they were just on the back?  You don't actually own an everdrive?  Why didn't you look for the grounds on the back if you did? And why haven't the false comments about the grounds been removed or retracted from the original article?

 

Also, a cigarettes to cancer analogy?  You have no proof any of these everdrives actually "cause cancer" (damaged system).  It would be more akin to smoking marijuana causing cancer.  In theory, it should, but somehow never does? 

 

It really feels from reading like Rene has some kind of grudge against krikzz or something.  Maybe he wrote it drunk? lol.  This article would've been better as a paragraph or two on a blog.  Just say some, mostly older, everdrives dont have the proper voltage regulators.  Why the smear piece?


Edited by Tusecsy, Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:32 PM.


#27 keepdreamin OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:58 PM

What's with all the comments about missing ground leads when they were just on the back?  You don't actually own an everdrive?  Why didn't you look for the grounds on the back if you did? And why haven't the false comments about the grounds been removed or retracted from the original article?
 
Also, a cigarettes to cancer analogy?  You have no proof any of these everdrives actually "cause cancer" (damaged system).  It would be more akin to smoking marijuana causing cancer.  In theory, it should, but somehow never does? 
 
It really feels from reading like Rene has some kind of grudge against krikzz or something.  Maybe he wrote it drunk? lol.  This article would've been better as a paragraph or two on a blog.  Just say some, mostly older, everdrives dont have the proper voltage regulators.  Why the smear piece?


Or maybe you posted this drunk?

Component manufacturers produce data sheets for a reason. To design a good product means ensuring components meet application specific guidelines.

You can throw out all the buts you want, doesn't matter. There's nothing to argue against. It's pretty clear to me based on some of the replies here, you guys haven't been employed in industry. Where certifications and specs aren't "meh, whatever. It seems to work". Customers aren't paying to hear that.

If I'm paying 100+ dollars for a flash cart, I'd expect it was designed properly

If I wanted to buy a box of SWAGs, I'd look at AliExpress


Edited by keepdreamin, Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:04 PM.


#28 DrSidneyZweibel OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:11 PM

I've had a first gen Everdrive MD and a Master Everdrive for years now, use them a few times a week, never had an issue.

#29 Osgeld OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:57 PM

I dont have the time, effort, or care to really sit down and do a wcca (worst case circuit analysis) on any of this, what I do think at first blush is 

  • A lot of these designs are not how I would do it, if given the choice
  • The article was fairly alarmist from the very start with "dangers", "explosions" and "avoid"
  • Started to become nit picky with regards to ground planes, they are not required by the laws of physics, and can actually be sources of issues (though the benefits typically outweigh the downsides) 
  • You want to see some real shit, look at the design of most consoles, its quite amazing how many of them didnt just crap their pants on day one

Edited by Osgeld, Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:58 PM.


#30 phoenixdownita OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:42 PM

Sarcastic follow up:

https://db-electroni...y-your-console/

 

Given it is video only and talking heads style I'd postpone watching it for the time being .....

 

EDIT: went thru it, there some sarcasm and a few jabs at YTers .... not sure what it was meant to be for.



#31 Tusecsy ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:10 AM

Or maybe you posted this drunk?

Component manufacturers produce data sheets for a reason. To design a good product means ensuring components meet application specific guidelines.

You can throw out all the buts you want, doesn't matter. There's nothing to argue against. It's pretty clear to me based on some of the replies here, you guys haven't been employed in industry. Where certifications and specs aren't "meh, whatever. It seems to work". Customers aren't paying to hear that.

If I'm paying 100+ dollars for a flash cart, I'd expect it was designed properly

If I wanted to buy a box of SWAGs, I'd look at AliExpress

But they all do work properly, and have never damaged anything.  On paper douchebag electronics is basically saying your house is going to start on fire if you use them.

 

Also, how do you address the FACT that he lies all over the article about missing ground leads?  Or that Kevtris himself said his article had misleading comments.

 

Is there an issue with the mega x7 that should be fixed, yes, but pretty much everything else in that article just reads as a jealous hit piece.  And still no retraction for the straight up LIES about the ground leads.


Edited by Tusecsy, Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:11 AM.


#32 keepdreamin OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:06 PM

But they all do work properly, and have never damaged anything.  On paper douchebag electronics is basically saying your house is going to start on fire if you use them.
 
Also, how do you address the FACT that he lies all over the article about missing ground leads?  Or that Kevtris himself said his article had misleading comments.
 
Is there an issue with the mega x7 that should be fixed, yes, but pretty much everything else in that article just reads as a jealous hit piece.  And still no retraction for the straight up LIES about the ground leads.

"Hit piece", lol. You're a dude who looks for drama in anything, aren't you? Rene doesn't sell flash carts, boss.

Nah, it reads like a guy who knows what the hell he's talking about.

You gonna issue a retraction for the burn the house down bit?

 

Also, he was talking about the PCBs being designed without a ground PLANE.  Not missing ground leads.  It's clear you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.


Edited by keepdreamin, Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:37 PM.


#33 Osgeld OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:08 PM

Also, he was talking about the PCBs being designed without a ground PLANE.  Not missing ground leads.  It's clear you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

 

 

agreed, there is no mention of leads only planes or pours

 

now there is no offical spec I am aware of (ipc cid*)  stating every unused bit of space needs to be a ground plane, and in a lot of applications you will see signals on one side and a plane on the other (or an internal layer etc) which is what I call nitpicky, cause there's plenty of situations where that is not optimal

 

I agree these designs could be a bit more robust, but I also agree with the maker of the everdrives that where the hell is he pulling 5.12345777777 millamps out of his ass, maybe that's some mil-spec guideline where everything has to be double redundant, wrapped in 2 condoms and slathered with no less than 3 inches of grease, but for commercial applications the JDEC is (at least) 20ma per pin with a somewhat variable total package limit (IE the 8 bit AVR micro-controllers can do 40ma per pin, but you cant exceed 200ma for the entire chip at any given time) 

 

 

*Certified Interconnect Designer

Edited by Osgeld, Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:09 PM.


#34 phoenixdownita OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:49 PM

...., but I also agree with the maker of the everdrives that where the hell is he pulling 5.12345777777 millamps out of his ass, maybe that's some mil-spec guideline where everything has to be double redundant, wrapped in 2 condoms and slathered with no less than 3 inches of grease, but for commercial applications....

you know ... for those cases in which they just shove it up there ..... maybe the grease is mildly pleasant in case of FUBAR (https://en.wikipedia...ang_terms#FUBAR )



#35 Tusecsy ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:03 AM

"Hit piece", lol. You're a dude who looks for drama in anything, aren't you? Rene doesn't sell flash carts, boss.

Nah, it reads like a guy who knows what the hell he's talking about.

You gonna issue a retraction for the burn the house down bit?

 

Also, he was talking about the PCBs being designed without a ground PLANE.  Not missing ground leads.  It's clear you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

I never said Rene sells everdrives, kid.  He's jealous of his success and mad that krikzz never got back to his many attempts to contact him.

 

Don't jump down my throat over a simple slip of the tongue, but continue to glaze over the fact that he is lying (and continues to lie despite the silly "retraction") about the ground PLANES in his article.  I never claimed to be an electronics expert, but I do know BS when I see it.

 

Kinda throws his credibility out the window is all I'm saying, regardless of some of the loose science contained within (as kevtris said).


Edited by Tusecsy, Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:15 AM.


#36 OldSchoolRetroGamer OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:02 PM

gw-itcrowdmosspopcorn.gif



#37 Flojomojo OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:08 PM

Jeepers. If you want your games to last for 100 years, buy a Retro VGS. Simple as that.



#38 Good_Times OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:12 PM

 keep calm and exercise basic common sense.

 

Fify!



#39 keepdreamin OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:54 PM

I never said Rene sells everdrives, kid.  He's jealous of his success and mad that krikzz never got back to his many attempts to contact him.
 
Don't jump down my throat over a simple slip of the tongue, but continue to glaze over the fact that he is lying (and continues to lie despite the silly "retraction") about the ground PLANES in his article.  I never claimed to be an electronics expert, but I do know BS when I see it.
 
Kinda throws his credibility out the window is all I'm saying, regardless of some of the loose science contained within (as kevtris said).



The only one lying is you. I'd suggest in the future you do some basic research before you start sounding off at people who know more than you do

#40 Tusecsy ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:36 PM

The only one lying is you. I'd suggest in the future you do some basic research before you start sounding off at people who know more than you do

What did I lie about? lol.  You know exactly what I meant when I accidentally said lead instead of plane, but you want to frame synonym as a lie ok...

 

Since you live in a dream land where facts are lies and lies are facts, I figure I'll give you a little run down. 

 

This is what a lie is, look familiar?

 

"I should also note that the SD2SNES actually uses a ground plane as opposed to most Everdrive designs."

 

Or perhaps this one will job your memory...

 

"But wait, there’s no ground plane? I just realised now that some Everdrives I’ve looked at has no ground pour…"  -referencing the mega x5, which has a ground plane.

 

Ok ok, maybe you forgot that one, but how about this lie?

 

"Good job! But hold on, we’ve lost the ground pour which was present on the version 1…"  -referencing the turbo everdrive v2, which has a ground plane.

 

Are you french canadian or something?  No other reason to defend chemo-boy at this point.  He's had over a week to correct these TEXTBOOK LIES.


Edited by Tusecsy, Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:42 PM.


#41 Osgeld OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:07 PM

someone has a massive case of butt hurt, calm down and take a nap



#42 Tempest OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:04 AM

Seriously?  Do I have to lock a thread on Everdrive Voltages?  WTH is wrong with you people?  Go eat a Snickers or something.



#43 travistouchdown ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:53 AM

Seriously?  Do I have to lock a thread on Everdrive Voltages?  WTH is wrong with you people?  Go eat a Snickers or something.

 

Hahaha, right?  What is this the Jaguar forum or something?!



#44 7800fan OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:46 AM

Some of the concern is sort of overblown.  The worst case with 3.3v chip in a 5v console with poor or zero level shifting is that 3.3v will run hot and burn out but the console is not likely to suffer any damage.  A DIY people may try to get away with minimum stuff but good people who intend to make and sell flash carts usually implement good level shifter and 3.3v regulator to protect the low voltage parts.

 

You could lose a $100 flash cart but Krikzz have lifetime warranty on his Everdrive carts and it's very rare I hear of a problem, it's more likely something else.  A faulty memory card, an unusual setup or mod on console, or rough handling of the naked flash cart board.  There were issues with early Turbo ED 2 that was caused by either chip based mod switch (one button switch or controller select on power on) or long data bus between cart slot and expansion devices (Namely TG-16 and CD dock) that was resolved with 2.3 and later.



#45 Wyluli Wolf OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:34 AM

Some will freak out, that's a given. I'll keep using my mega everdrive until it dies, but that doesn't discount the points the author is making.
Like he said in the article, just because you've been smoking for two months and haven't gotten cancer, doesn't mean smoking doesn't lead to cancer.

My view on all this is a follows. When you're paying a premium for an Everdrive (or similar), you're taking it on good faith the expensive product you're buying has been properly designed. Which means the creator is observing all datasheet specs provided by the component suppliers.
"I tossed some resistors in there, and all seems ok" isn't going to cut it, sorry. If I wanted to take a shot in the dark and cheap out, I'd buy something off aliexpress.

The smart thing, and really only choice for Krikzz moving forward is to make the necessary design changes to be within manufacturer guidelines. There's nothing to argue against.

I have to agree with the above.  Maybe the issue isn't as bad as it sounds but that doesn't excuse the fact that there is an issue.  The smart thing to do is a proper design change and move forward.



#46 NinjaWarrior OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:39 PM

Why is he saying this now?
 
I think it's all BS to scare people from not buying Flashcart & Multicarts


#47 Tusecsy ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 2, 2017 10:38 AM

I just wish that Rene would put dummy pins all the way across his grafx boostr so the thing actually feels secure when you plug it in.  What other product in the history of electronics was designed like this? 

 

The more I think about it the more this reminds me of the Switch "dock issue".  Just food for the Redditors of the world to get their panties in a bunch over nothing. 

 

And until I hear of a single everdrive in the entire world actually having an issue from one of these "problems", I'll keep using them daily without any concern.


Edited by Tusecsy, Wed Aug 2, 2017 10:45 AM.






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