Transferring a bunch of files to a Falcon's hard disk (or from a ST HD)

[Chris Collins]

Hi I apologize if this is a common question but a search didnt yield any good matches.

 

I have a reasonable collection of atari's but frankly havent been really using them much. Recently I got a Falcon and installed a new CF card in it from Best. I wanted to transfer a bunch of games to it that I have either sitting on my mac or that is on an SD that is formatted / works with an ultrasatan controller on a regular ST.

 

I tried the SD with the falcon and it doesnt recognize it (people in the know are probably laughing at me now saying they are of course totally different).

 

How does one "en-mass" copy stuff from an old ST Hard disk (effectively) to a falcon?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

humbly

 

Chris

[exxosuk]

I had similar issues. My hard drive used a normal SCSI drive, so with the right cable can be connected to the Falcon's SCSI connector.

 

Internal IDE to SD works on the falcon. I use one in mine. Might be worth checking you have the latest HDD driver software as older ones probably won't work with SD cards.

[Chris Collins]

Thanks Dragonstomper. The problem isnt using an SD card, I already have a bootable one for the falcon. The issue is I have also an SD card that seems to work with ST's and Ultrastan controllers but does not mount on the Falcon. Are you saying you were able to mount a disk that was formatted for a regular ST use it with a falcon?

[ParanoidLittleMan]

You can not access SD card on Falcon, unless you get IDE to SD adapter - not expensive, or SCSI version of CosmosEx .- little expensive.

Well, it seems that you have that IDE-SD adapter already, although did not say it clearly. Not mentioning how connected CF and SD together - is one master, other slave ?

Btw. it is normal that SD card set up on some ST does not boot on Falcon IDE port. Although, your hard disk driver should detect it and mount.

So, first thing is to determine is it properly connected: CF should be master, and IDE-SD adapter should be set as slave.

If your adapter is actually SCSI-SD then it still will not boot, but should be detected. But I'm pretty sure that it is not your config,

Please give more details.

 

What to do: you need to copy runnable hard disk driver on floppy, then attach only IDE-SD adapter as slave , and see will it detect then media - not as SD, but as IDE, and will it mount partitions.

If not, then try it as master. If master works, but slave not, then you are not lucky with that adapters, and will not be able to do it on Falcon.

 

Then, to solve transfer you can do:

Do it on some PC. You copy all files from SD on hard disk of PC, then attach CF card, and copy all it onto CF.

Unfortunately, it will work only if they are formatted TOS/DOS compatible. Then actually can do it on MAC too.

If not TOS/DOS compatible, can use this Windows SW: http://atari.8bitchip.info/drimus.php

That will need little more work.

It is possible to use some emulator to make it easier. Little longer story, so I will not go now in it.

[Chris Collins]

Thanks Dragonstomper. Just to clarify I have tried several configs and I did have mulitiple IDE to CF UDMA adapters involved.

 

"Best Config"

I purchased from Best electronics not only a Falcon formatted CF card I also purchased from them a mini IDE to CF converter that is pretty much this model:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Converts-a-CF-Compact-Flash-memory-card-into-a-desktop-IDE-Hard-Disk-Drive-SSD/192104468793?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

This configuration : WORKS. It boots and I have a nice crisp but relatively empty bootable image.

 

Lets call this ide converter IDE_CONVERTER1

Lets call this image FALCON_CF1

 

This image (FALCON_CF1) does NOT mount on windows, linux or OSX.

 

"My ST config 1"

I have an UltraSatan from Lotherak that I have a CF card that I downloaded an image from the WWW (no link included to save the guilty).

This image is bootable on an ST. Its also mountable on Linux, Windows and OSX. Its a regular FAT file system. Lets call this image ST_SD1

 

"My ST config 2"

I have another Ultrasatan unit I purchased from a UK seller. It came with another formatted SD. With lots of files on it. It boots on an ST and is mountable on Linux, OSX, Windows.

Lets call this ST_SD2.

 

Obviously My ST config 1 and 2 are not really that relevant other than to show I can boot these on an st.

 

My alternative to IDE 2 CF converter

I also have another IDE UDMA to CF adapter that takes TWO CF cards. Lets call this IDE_CONVERTER2. It looks like one of these:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-CF-to-44P-IDE-adapter-2-5-HDD-case-to-dual-CF-slots-converter-CF-card-reader-/111286430097?hash=item19e9302991:g:XvMAAOxyni9TChhX

 

 

On my falcon I have tried on falcon:

 

IDE_CONVERTER1 + FALCON_CF1 ==> works

IDE_CONVERTER1 + ST_CF1 ==> not work

IDE_CONVERTER1 + ST_CF2 ==> not work

 

IDE_CONVERTER2 + FALCON_CF1(slot1) ==> WORKS

 

IDE_CONVERTER2 + FALCON_CF1 (slot1)

+ ST_CF1 ==>FALCON_CF1 image visible, no ST_CF1 mounts seen

 

 

IDE_CONVERTER2 + FALCON_CF1 (slot1)

+ ST_CF2 ==>FALCON_CF1 image visible, no ST_CF2 mounts seen

 

I am in asia for a couple of weeks but I will get back to trying some things your suggesting. Though from the your opening comments about having an SD adapter I dont know if you had any faith I even physically plugged any CF card into a Falcon.

 

I also have a few SCSI solutions sitting around such as this one:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCSI2SD-v5-3-5-bundle-with-8GB-SanDisk-microSD-/192171802912?hash=item2cbe550120:g:z4AAAOSwFnFWBHDt

 

I am waiting for a SCSI adapter to come from china so I can try that as an option. Clearly there is no ACSI interface on a falcon so there is no point trying any of the Ultra Satan devices or my two Megafiles.

 

C

[ParanoidLittleMan]

Well, very long post, and some things are still not clear. You called it first ST_SD1, but then when attaching to Falcon it became ST_CF1 .

So, not clear what you really did. It is logical to assume that you copied ST SD card to CF card. Other possible way is to use IDE-SD adapter, but then you need splitter for IDE and possibility to set that IDE-SD as slave. I have such converter, and it works well on Falcon, but not possible to set as slave .However, if I put there some SD card what boots on ST, it will not boot on Falcon before I install driver on it - so partitions, all data remains, just need to install there proper driver.

 

You have IDE-CF adapter with 2 slots, so master and slave. Let's not call it converter, because it is actually passive adapter, where just lines are connected. The fact that it does not see second, ST card means that:

1. You did not copy SD card to CF card properly - most likely.

2. Driver SW is not capable to see slave - less likely.

3. Some HW problem.

 

"I dont know if you had any faith I even physically plugged any CF card into a Falcon." - what this means ? Why should I not believe that ?

Considering SCSI adapter - I would not rush with it. That's not cheap, and SCSI on Falcon is slower than IDE .

 

"

"My ST config 2"

I have another Ultrasatan unit I purchased from a UK seller. It came with another formatted SD. With lots of files on it. It boots on an ST and is mountable on Linux, OSX, Windows.

Lets call this ST_SD2."

Can you give me his address ? I'm interested in it. May in PM if you prefer it.

[Chris Collins]

Thanks Dragonstomper.

 

Sorry for the error. Yes its ST_SD1 not ST_CF1. I didn't copy data from an SD to a CF, there are three storage media in play here two SD cards and one CF card (SD cards being FAT formatted and function with an ST). I used the term converter because it is a mechanical conversion of parallel ATA to CF. If you want to not call it that, thats fine.

 

Can you explain why the CF card from a falcon is not readable on any platform other than the falcon. That is somewhat of a surprise to me as I expected it to be effectively a fat formatted card?

 

For your logical breakdown, yes I guess its a 2 or a 3. That said all parts seem to function fine in their respective source contexts (Falcon stuff on a falcon, ST stuff on an ST) So where would I find the driver so that the SD FAT formatted card would read on a falcon.

 

Faith comment was because I mentioned I had installed a CF card in a Falcon. I hadn't clearly stipulated how I magically installed the card and you pointing out I couldn't of done that without an appropriate adapter. I guess I will attempt to be as crystal clear as possible in the future.

 

p.s. I know technically a Falcon is the last product of the ST range of computers and is therefor "an ST". For the purposes of distinction ST here is anything other than the Falcon or TT.

[ParanoidLittleMan]

Thanx for clarifying it. Although, still no word about what IDE-SD adapter/converter you using. How you connected it ? Is there some jumper on it to set it as slave ?

I can not explain at moment - we are in process to find the reason, but it goes not well if you give not enough details.

 

So, some explanations first: Atari (TOS) uses FAT16 filesystem with hard disks. It is used by DOS too. But they are compatible only until 32 MB partition size. Above that not. Because DOS and TOS solved differently access to more than 65536 (that would be 2 power 16, and 32MB size) sectors.

 

What I made first was utility for which I gave link in my first post. With it you can transfer files from only TOS compatible partitions on some media as Flash card, or even hard disk attached to motherboard of PC in Windows.

But more comfortable is when OS can directly access Atari media. So, made TOS/DOS compatible partitioning. It is possible, because as said both use FAT16. Only need to take care about proper parameters for DOS, and some special things by Atari driver. Then you can access files on Atari and on PC, MAC too, without extra SW. Still need to take care about some things - especially to avoid long file names. In my latest driver there is LFN filtering too..

 

Now, your problem - even if SD card is not partitioned, or there is some incompatible file system, hard disk driver must detect card. And outprint it, capacity. Only that will not mount partitions.

But in your case it happens not, is it ?

So, again, how exactly you connected IDE-SD adapter, is it set as slave ? Did you try to connect only it and run driver from floppy ?

 

Here is something what will help you: http://atari.8bitchip.info/DiskImgPP1.html

In text is explained how to make it work on Falcon. Only that you need to write it on SD and not CF card. As may see, you need to do additional (short) write after writing image - that is actually replacement of ACSI autoboot driver with IDE one. Despite it is on SD card, it boots on IDE port of Falcon.

That will be test of is it work at all on your Falcon - I mean that IDE-SD adapter connected as master.

After that, if works can go on testing as slave - for that, need to write same on CF card, and if it boots well on Falcon, attach your IDE-SD adapter as slave and try. If works, you will have all 3 partitions 2x - will not harm for test

 

Why I insist on what IDE-SD adapter you using ? It may be that it simply works not with Falcon. There are many CF cards which works not with Falcon.

[Tillek]

Just throwing it out there... but if you mention where abouts you are, maybe there is an Atari guru somewhere close who can help you.

 

Maybe not...

 

I'm just saying if you're anywhere near North East Ohio, I'd be happy to help if I could.... and I'm sure there are other people in other areas who would be willing as well.

 

Just putting that out there.

[Chris Collins]

Thanks all. Firstly I messed up reading "dragonstomper" thinking it was a person and ignored some peoples comments. I am away for a while so I will try out the ideas when I get back. I appreciate all your help.