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Could the release of Black Ice/White Noise saved the Jaguar and Atari?

atari jaguar black ice white noise biwn jag cd

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#76 CyranoJ OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:00 AM

Haha, I could not stop laughing thanks for this. While I really wish they had finished BIWN and I like the Blade Runner setting and everything I am completly with you on the open-world thing. I do not understand how this got so huge and now more and more games make you run around for ages in huge maps without a point or anything to do. So annoying.

 

Chris Roberts has turned it into an art-form.



#77 DracIsBack OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:23 AM

Ironically many people who worked on/launched the Jag launched ps1 too!

 

That's actually pretty common in industries. People with similar skillsets and experiences move to similar jobs in similar companies. While fanboys battle over which platform is better, reality is that employees have often worked at multiple places and on competing platforms.



#78 AtariORdead OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:38 PM

weren't PS1 owners already playing the likes of resident Evil when BL/WN got cancelled.



#79 pacman000 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:12 AM

Resident Evil was released in '96, Atari stopped Jag development in late '95.

#80 CharlieChaplin OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:40 PM

In my opinion no single game made by Atari could have saved the Jaguar (but maybe a number of games by *big* third-party publishers). Even a Jaguar+CD drive (or Jagduo) right from the start would not have saved the Jaguar... 

 

Except, well, imagine we would have had Jag+CD drive right from the start, Atari still failed and merged with JTS, but every Jaguar owner would own a CD drive right now - great times for homebrewers, no need to create expensive carts...  (luckily, one day we may get the JAG SD cart)...


Edited by CharlieChaplin, Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:42 PM.


#81 ginoscope OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:02 PM

In my opinion no single game made by Atari could have saved the Jaguar (but maybe a number of games by *big* third-party publishers). Even a Jaguar+CD drive (or Jagduo) right from the start would not have saved the Jaguar... 

 

Except, well, imagine we would have had Jag+CD drive right from the start, Atari still failed and merged with JTS, but every Jaguar owner would own a CD drive right now - great times for homebrewers, no need to create expensive carts...  (luckily, one day we may get the JAG SD cart)...

 

CD from the start would have been nice but in 1993 that would have been a pretty expensive system.  It would have probably been a $349-399 system and at that price it would have sold even less than what it did.  In the end the issue they had was lack of games.  I do agree it would be nice now if everything was CD based.



#82 leech OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:07 PM

Haha, I could not stop laughing thanks for this. While I really wish they had finished BIWN and I like the Blade Runner setting and everything I am completly with you on the open-world thing. I do not understand how this got so huge and now more and more games make you run around for ages in huge maps without a point or anything to do. So annoying.

 
Seriously. Good ones are few and far between. The Ultimas were what we would call open world now, but actually had a plot and purpose. Horizon: Zero Dawn is a great game and an example of how it should be done. A lot of others (looking at you, no man's sky) are just endless shenanigans.

 

CD from the start would have been nice but in 1993 that would have been a pretty expensive system.  It would have probably been a $349-399 system and at that price it would have sold even less than what it did.  In the end the issue they had was lack of games.  I do agree it would be nice now if everything was CD based.


I don't think the Sega CD was that much, was it? Developers would have appreciated it more, that is sure.

#83 ginoscope OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:12 PM

 
Seriously. Good ones are few and far between. The Ultimas were what we would call open world now, but actually had a plot and purpose. Horizon: Zero Dawn is a great game and an example of how it should be done. A lot of others (looking at you, no man's sky) are just endless shenanigans.

 
I don't think the Sega CD was that much, was it? Developers would have appreciated it more, that is sure.

 

I think the Sega CD was $299 at launch but you still needed a Genesis to go with it so the price was close.  I was just adding $100 to the $249 the Jaguar launched at as a basis for my price.



#84 Lost Dragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:34 PM

UK Mega CD was £270 at launch..

I was suckered into buying one on launch day..

#85 Flojomojo ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:50 PM

I lusted after the Sega CDX so hard. $399 ... with THREE CD games!!

http://atariage.com/...-1431999673.jpg

Obligatory: that's like $670 in 2018 bucks!

#86 Pete5125 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:18 PM

JVC X'EYE was $499 and was a mix of sega/sega cd/karaoke.   3DO started at $699 but was $399 by fall 94.  Atari could of started in $399 range and got to $299 or less by 94, granted they would need to be $199 or less by 95 to compete with 3D0 and Saturn/PS1.

 

If 3DO couldn't do it with EA titles, plus Street Fighter 2, and NEO GEO Fighter games, Atari would of had less of a chance with a more expensive unit.  Basically need to be 2 years sooner and duke it out with  Sega/SNES/NES/TG16


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#87 JagChris OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:31 PM

In the beginning it seems Jaguar had more of a welcome reception from the public then the 3DO did when it started.

If Atari would have played it better and got some more good titles like the 3DO did they may have done a bit better than 3DO.

#88 Adriano Arcade OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:06 AM

I am shocked and delighted that my initial post has become so popular! Thanks everyone for the responses! If you missed it, here is the original link to the podcast that led me to post this question in the first place:

 

http://www.arcadeatt...st-july-2-2017/

 

I am a huge jag fan and have even more jag related podcasts and interviews lined up for the future!

 

I am also in the process of chatting to the man who made BIWN's music - Andy Armer! I will post a link to this interview when it is ready!

 

Thanks all!

 

Adrian



#89 Lost Dragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:48 AM

@Adrian:

I'm slowly making my way through your interviews,fantastic work.

Some very familiar names to myself in there: Chris Shrigley, Simon Phipps,Darryl Still, Faran T.etc..

I'd never seen Donna Bailey interviewed,nor Dylan Cuthbert asked about his PS2 work.

Interesting to hear Eugene Jarvis thoughts on Defender 2000, Dan Manatee talk about the Tramiel family..Leonard seems to attract polar opinions.

I took the time to leave a few comments.

I always feel if people are willing to put the time in to conduct an interview,least we can do is leave a comment to express our appreciation.

Keep up the good work.

#90 Adriano Arcade OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:30 AM

@Adrian:

I'm slowly making my way through your interviews,fantastic work.

Some very familiar names to myself in there: Chris Shrigley, Simon Phipps,Darryl Still, Faran T.etc..

I'd never seen Donna Bailey interviewed,nor Dylan Cuthbert asked about his PS2 work.

Interesting to hear Eugene Jarvis thoughts on Defender 2000, Dan Manatee talk about the Tramiel family..Leonard seems to attract polar opinions.

I took the time to leave a few comments.

I always feel if people are willing to put the time in to conduct an interview,least we can do is leave a comment to express our appreciation.

Keep up the good work.

Thanks Lost Dragon!

 

Much appreciated that you left some lovely comments on the articles!

 

I am glad you are enjoying the interviews! I have a few more big players lined up for the future on Arcade Attack - so be sure to come back soon! ;) 

 

Expect more audio podcast interviews soon as well to go alongside David Fox (LucasArts) and Al Nilsen (SEGA). 

 

Thanks again! :)



#91 Lost Dragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:58 AM

Your more than welcome and it was the very least i could do.

I'm very impressed by the sheer range of industry people you spoke to and even more so, the questions you asked.

As a long term UK magazine reader, I saw the same people being asked the same questions and it soon got stale.

Everyone would talk to Dylan about his Nintendo work, as that was his trademark, but i had no idea he had done the showcase ducks in the bath PS2 tech demo and it's refreshing to hear someone who liked the PS2 architecture.

That is just 1 example of why i am liking your approach to interviewing.

You also clearly put a lot of yourself into the interviews,which give them a real down to earth vibe and everyone gets treated the same..no apparent hero worship which can cloud interviews.

David Fox is another legend, fantastic to talk to and a real gentleman.

I recently sent hom some UK material he was previously unaware of and he always makes time to respond.

Right..back to your work :-)

#92 Adriano Arcade OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:28 AM

Your more than welcome and it was the very least i could do.

I'm very impressed by the sheer range of industry people you spoke to and even more so, the questions you asked.

As a long term UK magazine reader, I saw the same people being asked the same questions and it soon got stale.

Everyone would talk to Dylan about his Nintendo work, as that was his trademark, but i had no idea he had done the showcase ducks in the bath PS2 tech demo and it's refreshing to hear someone who liked the PS2 architecture.

That is just 1 example of why i am liking your approach to interviewing.

You also clearly put a lot of yourself into the interviews,which give them a real down to earth vibe and everyone gets treated the same..no apparent hero worship which can cloud interviews.

David Fox is another legend, fantastic to talk to and a real gentleman.

I recently sent hom some UK material he was previously unaware of and he always makes time to respond.

Right..back to your work :-)

These kind of comments make my work on Arcade Attack worthwhile! Thank you. I will share your kind words with our editor! We certainly don't do this for the money - but I am so happy the interviews are striking a chord! Thanks again for your support! Be sure to follow AA on Twitter and / or Facebook to keep up to date on future interviews etc! :)



#93 JagCD OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:03 PM

JVC X'EYE was $499 and was a mix of sega/sega cd/karaoke.   3DO started at $699 but was $399 by fall 94.  Atari could of started in $399 range and got to $299 or less by 94, granted they would need to be $199 or less by 95 to compete with 3D0 and Saturn/PS1.

 

If 3DO couldn't do it with EA titles, plus Street Fighter 2, and NEO GEO Fighter games, Atari would of had less of a chance with a more expensive unit.  Basically need to be 2 years sooner and duke it out with  Sega/SNES/NES/TG16

 

The 3D0 was launched at $699.00.....  Which in today's dollars is $1,185.00

 

It was doomed to fail. 

 

Personally, I think the Jaguar failed because of its software library, poor development tools and half-hearted

distribution/advertising.  Had they shipped Rayman as a pack-in title instead of CyberMorph -- History might

have been different.

 

People just wanted side scrolling platformers for their pack-in titles back in those days (Super Mario Bros.

on NES, Sonic on Genesis, Super Mario World on SNES)....  All the commercial successes of that

era really needed it.

 

The N64 was reasonably successful with the cartridge format, so it wasn't the cartridge format that killed

the Jaguar.  It was a lack of good software at launch IMO.



#94 Pete5125 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:47 PM

 
The 3D0 was launched at $699.00.....  Which in today's dollars is $1,185.00
 
It was doomed to fail. 
 
Personally, I think the Jaguar failed because of its software library, poor development tools and half-hearted
distribution/advertising.  Had they shipped Rayman as a pack-in title instead of CyberMorph -- History might
have been different.
 
People just wanted side scrolling platformers for their pack-in titles back in those days (Super Mario Bros.
on NES, Sonic on Genesis, Super Mario World on SNES)....  All the commercial successes of that
era really needed it.
 
The N64 was reasonably successful with the cartridge format, so it wasn't the cartridge format that killed
the Jaguar.  It was a lack of good software at launch IMO.


atari had burnt to many bridges, from retailers , to developers, to 3rd party deveopers, to consumers by this point they had 4 consoles (5200, 7800, xe, and lynx) that had came out and while atari nade money they also only gave support for 3 years tops.

game developers they found clauses in the contracts to release unfinished games so they wouldn't have to pay final release price.

sadly rayman wasnt ready to go till around ps1 release date of sept 95, granted sony had paid them off to not be exclusive atari mascot.

I do agree atari should of changed to a raymon pack in before they got to Wal-Mart, could of saved them some returns.

Atari had 2 christmas seasons the 1st with not enough systems, the 2nd a system out for a year and a half with very few games, at that point they were 50/50 between AAA titles (3 1st person shooters, 1 mech game, 1 remake of old arcade) the other 50 percent was either unplayable ot bad.

in 95 the flood gates opened with more bad games, some games that were near identical to snes counterparts, and. a couple more AAA titles.

sports games were popular jag had very few mainly bad.

fighters were poular atari made own ripp offs of mk and vf, didnt excel in either having no mk, sf2, and samurai showdown was a sin at this point.

mascots were important sega and sonic proved this, tg16 had bonk, ps1 had crash, even 3d0 had gex.

every bad move atari made they did, not releasing full scale in Europe were they had a good name.

if you go back in time atari had no money, they had to release something new to keep their stock prices up, they constantly produced vaporware with vr helment, jag duo and jag 2, to keep company afloat.

Sega lawsuit saved them and killed atari at same time, as they would never see that much money again, i wish they could of got most of year 96 games release would if been better legacy

#95 Lost Dragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:39 AM

@Pete5125:

You make several key points there.

People seem to forget that at 1 point Atari in the UK alone had the 2600, XEGS and 7800 all competing in the same sector..8 bit,cartridge based console hardware.

The planned successor to the 2600 had been announced as the 5200, only for it to later announced as scrapped for the UK after it had bombed in the USA.

The 7800 is annouced at a London Winter Atari show, suggested R.R.P and line up games shown, then Atari annouce later plans changed, XEGS will be the system for the UK instead and the 7800 limps out later via home shopping firms etc.

UK press start covering the ST console, then Atari start talking of The Panther, not ST based...this in turn is announced as scrapped, Atari working on something even more powerful..

This was always the case with Atari in the UK..with computers and consoles..

Hardware and software announcements, so Atari kept a profile in the Press.

But it backfired badly,as press and public grew tired of waiting for these wonder machines to arrive.

Long before the Jaguar was even annouced,the running joke over here was why buy an Atari 8 bit micro today? Knowing Atari they will annouce a newer,more powerful version tomorrow..

Edited by Lost Dragon, Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:48 AM.


#96 pacman000 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:10 AM

Maybe the Osbourne Effect should be renamed the Atari Effect. ;)

#97 Lost Dragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:41 AM

Maybe the Osbourne Effect should be renamed the Atari Effect. ;)


50 Formats Of Tramiel? :-))

#98 Lost Dragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:13 PM

@Leech:

T-Mek cropped up in a chat today and it reminded me of this thread.

Did you play any of the home ports and if so what did you think of them?.

My impression of the game was always one that it was yet another title best left in the arcades.

32X and PC Reviews didn't seem too great and i know Gary Stark has gone on record to say Matthew Ford didn't make a coin op he wanted to play.

His concept for T-Mek was more strategic than the version we saw.

Just curious as to how it would of been received on Jaguar.

#99 MAYAman OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 9, 2018 11:53 AM

I actually played the game in its unfinished state at Atari, no, it couldn't have saved the Jag.  But it was amazing at the time.



#100 Otto1980 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 9, 2018 1:35 PM

no, it couldn't have saved the Jag.  But it was amazing at the time.

 

Yes BIWN was amazing at this time!!

 

There was also a company calld Rockstar and they developed several years later a very similar game called Grand Theft Auto (with a little less 3d and no FMV)

Nowadays we know this game "saved" Rockstar and they are one of the biggest Videogame Developer Studios in the World







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