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Games for Atari: 1977 to 1995 Book Project on Kickstarter


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#51 Marc Oberhäuser ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:10 AM

Will Lynx game Bubble Trouble be included, as it's an official release, and P.I.T.S., this driving school thingy?

 

Bubble Trouble is included, PITS not. Do you think it qualifies for the book?



#52 TokyoBatman OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:27 AM

 
The EURO 49 Early-Bird was limited to 100 backers. When they were gone, you would to pay the regular price.


First off, I think you're book is fantastic. That being said, I, like a lot of other people have a price point when it comes to purchases.

For a hard cover, awesome, retro book, I cap out at $59.99. It seems that your early bird price was a sweet spot $55. They went quickly. Things slowed down when it came to the $70 price...

This kind of tells you the market's price point if you want to capitalize on sales.

If the Kickstarter doesn't get there, you might want to try again. Say a 45 euro early bird (100) and 49.99 euro standard backer.

This is just my opinion, so please don't take offense. Your book is great, but the pricing may be off a little.

#53 Marc Oberhäuser ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:36 AM

First off, I think you're book is fantastic. That being said, I, like a lot of other people have a price point when it comes to purchases.

For a hard cover, awesome, retro book, I cap out at $59.99. It seems that your early bird price was a sweet spot $55. They went quickly. Things slowed down when it came to the $70 price...

This kind of tells you the market's price point if you want to capitalize on sales.

If the Kickstarter doesn't get there, you might want to try again. Say a 45 euro early bird (100) and 49.99 euro standard backer.

This is just my opinion, so please don't take offense. Your book is great, but the pricing may be off a little.

 

Many thanks for the kind words. Right now I am working on a revamp and will post a new update later today. Stay tuned. :)



#54 AlwaysOnPlanetPatrol OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:38 AM

First off, I think you're book is fantastic. That being said, I, like a lot of other people have a price point when it comes to purchases.

For a hard cover, awesome, retro book, I cap out at $59.99. It seems that your early bird price was a sweet spot $55. They went quickly. Things slowed down when it came to the $70 price...

This kind of tells you the market's price point if you want to capitalize on sales.

If the Kickstarter doesn't get there, you might want to try again. Say a 45 euro early bird (100) and 49.99 euro standard backer.

This is just my opinion, so please don't take offense. Your book is great, but the pricing may be off a little.

 

Yes, I think you're right, that's how I feel.  The price is just a tad high to make me pause and avoid that impulse buy.  I can see how/why the 100 slots were taken up.I like supporting the community especially if they do something creative, but like everyone else have a budget and limited disposable income.



#55 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:41 AM

I wonder if the shipping costs might have been a bit prohibitive too?



#56 TokyoBatman OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:28 AM

I wonder if the shipping costs might have been a bit prohibitive too?


So I'm going to wing a bunch of numbers as an example.

Mostly it comes down to getting profit margin so you can max net income.

Say we're printing 1000 books. A printing company may charge 15 to 20 per book for that amount.

You charge 70 dollars for the book... So that's 50 profit. 200 people buy it so you make $10,000

If you charge 50 that's 30 dollars profit, but 1000 people want it. You make $30,000.

Say you charge 40, but only 1200 people want it... That's $24,000 profit.

Trying to figure out a profit margin that nets the most money is difficult .

When you consider 25 dollars shipping ... A 70 dollar book is now almost a $100 book.

So you are right, shipping does weigh into this price point equation.

It definitely seems like it needs to go down, but by how much... to capitalize and max out net income?

Kickstarter seems to be a great way to identify a price point... Is there a cooling off period or can you put up the same Kickstarter project with different price points right away if it doesn't get back the first time?

#57 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:34 AM

I don't think Marc wants to completely maximize his profit, IMO he just wants to make enough profit.



#58 Marc Oberhäuser ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:42 AM

As I already said: The book would be >2 KG -> Shipping to USA is EURO 20 (3kg x 6 + 0.80 + shipping material). Shipping from within the USA isn't an option for various reasons.

 

I wonder if the shipping costs might have been a bit prohibitive too?



#59 TokyoBatman OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:00 AM

I don't think Marc wants to completely maximize his profit, IMO he just wants to make enough profit.


I agree, it's a personal/financial decision when it comes to pricing. I have friends that price things way low and are happy to break even. I ask them why the heck?

They've told me they make a lot more (happiness) by knowing someone and more people can enjoy it.

Everyone is different, I guess I'm always thinking about max profit.

I shouldn't have assumed that is also what Marc is going for.

My apologies, I haven't been on this board for long and gotten to know him.

I was just trying to help out. At any rate, the book is awesome and I hope for the best. I'm guessing a lot of people would like to get their hands on it!

#60 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:04 AM

Shipping from within the USA isn't an option for various reasons.

I suppose printing in the USA is no option too? Or would the shipping problem prohibit this?

How about putting the burden of shipping within the USA to someone else? E.g. sell 100 packages to a distributor, ship them cheaper via container and let the distributor handle the rest?


Edited by Thomas Jentzsch, Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:08 AM.


#61 Marc Oberhäuser ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:29 AM

So I'm going to wing a bunch of numbers as an example.

Mostly it comes down to getting profit margin so you can max net income.

Say we're printing 1000 books. A printing company may charge 15 to 20 per book for that amount.

You charge 70 dollars for the book... So that's 50 profit. 200 people buy it so you make $10,000

If you charge 50 that's 30 dollars profit, but 1000 people want it. You make $30,000.

Say you charge 40, but only 1200 people want it... That's $24,000 profit.

Trying to figure out a profit margin that nets the most money is difficult .

When you consider 25 dollars shipping ... A 70 dollar book is now almost a $100 book.

So you are right, shipping does weigh into this price point equation.

It definitely seems like it needs to go down, but by how much... to capitalize and max out net income?

Kickstarter seems to be a great way to identify a price point... Is there a cooling off period or can you put up the same Kickstarter project with different price points right away if it doesn't get back the first time?

 

I usually don't want to discuss price points but your profit calculation is quite a bit off. It's not just KS price minus printing costs. Here some figures to think about:

 

- I worked 8 months full-time on the project (2 months longer than calculated though). It's not a hobbie, but still a project I always wanted to do. So I have calculated my monthly fee very low. If I would charge my typical monthly income as a freelance game developer the price would be twice as much at least. 

- Photostudio for 115 pictures > 1.000 EURO

- Games Journalist for the written content

- Kickstarter/Stripe: 10% of the total KS revenue

- Pledge Manager: 1.5% on the total KS revenue

- VAT Taxes: 19%

- Shippment Worker (I am a disabled person and can't handle the shipping by myself, bad luck...) > 1.000 

- Administration Costs

- Royalties to contributors

- Lots of small costs (Adobe Software Costs (EURO 50/month), Travel Expenses etc.)

 

And later on income tax of about 35% to 50% on the profit, depending on the revenue.

 

Of course there are people who might be able to do the job for less, but hey, I am not other people. Before I went all in into the project on January it was a slow burner, done in my spare time. I also analyzed 20+ comparable Kickstarter and Indiegogo campaignes before. My calculations looked good/cost efficient. Well, it didn't worked out. I was wrong. Bad luck for me.

 

But please don't tell me it's easy money.



#62 TokyoBatman OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:32 AM

 
I usually don't want to discuss price points but your profit calculation is quite a bit off. It's not just KS price minus printing costs. Here some figures to think about:
 
- I worked 8 month full-time on the project. It's not a hobbie, but still a project I always wanted to do. So I have calculated my monthly fee very low. If I would charge my typical monthly income as a freelance game developer the price would be twice as much at least. 
- Photostudio for pictures > 1.000 EURO
- Games Journalist for the written content
- Kickstarter/Stripe: 10% of the total KS revenue
- Pledge Manager: 1.5% on the KS revenue
- Taxes: 19%
- Shippment Worker (I am a disabled person and can't handle the shipping by mystelf, bad luck...) > 1.000 
- Administration Costs
- Royalties to contributors
- Lots of small costs (Adobe Software Costs (EURO 50/month), Travel Expenses etc.)
 
And later on income tax of about 35% to 50% on the profit, depending on the revenue.
 
Of course there are people who might be able to do the job for less, but hey, I am not other people. Before I went all in into the project on January it was a slow burner, done in my spare time. I also analyzed 20+ comparable Kickstarter and Indiegogo campaignes before. My calculations looked good/cost efficient. Well, it didn't worked out. I was wrong. Bad luck for me.
 
But don't tell me it's alot and easy money.

Sorry for winging those numbers out like that...

The only point I was going for was on how to maximize net profit.

A high,mid, and low price point (considering there is a profit margin) can get you max net profit depending on how many people in the market is willing to pay for the item...

So basically if you get the price point right, you'll make the most money.

Judging from your Kickstarter and how the market went over the period of time, and of course in my opinion, to get the most money, lowering the price point will be very advantageous .

I apologize for all of this. My intentions were to help. It seems as if I've upset you. Once again, awesome book and I really do wish you the best of luck on this. The book and your effort are phenomenal.

Edited by TokyoBatman, Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:51 AM.


#63 Marc Oberhäuser ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:00 AM

I suppose printing in the USA is no option too? Or would the shipping problem prohibit this?

How about putting the burden of shipping within the USA to someone else? E.g. sell 100 packages to a distributor, ship them cheaper via container and let the distributor handle the rest?

 

Well, of course I would love if Al could handle the US customers, but Al cannot work for free. Shipping is a pain. It takes tons of time. When I sent out the trading carts I had about 50 parcels at a time and I needed 2.5 days just for that few parcels. Even a healthy person would need a day I guess.

 

Additionally, shipping would be very slow (4 to 12 weeks sea freight), the paperworks for the customs. Selling the book regulary by Amazon etc. would cost about 31% to 65% discount, and as a bonus 100% right to return the books if they don't sell (as far as I know). 



#64 Marc Oberhäuser ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:05 AM

The only point I was going for was on how to maximize net profit.

A high,mid, and low price point (considering there is a profit margin) can get you max net profit depending on how many people in the market is willing to pay for the item...

So basically if you get the price point right, you'll make the most money.

 

Yeah, but to find this sweet spot isn't as easy as I thought. ;) And the shipping costs won't help either.



#65 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:08 AM

Well, of course I would love if Al could handle the US customers, but Al cannot work for free.

Check out the link in my post. Maybe someone else than Al (or Amazon) is interested.

#66 Bill Loguidice ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:12 AM

What's interesting is that if you go with a traditional publisher (or, I should say, a traditional publisher goes with you), the most you'll likely make (unless the book is an unusual success/outlier, a la something like The Art of Atari book) is your advance, which is usually anywhere from $2000 - $10,000. If you're lucky and have a good seller, you might be able to make a little more than your advance, but not much. With taxes, etc., there's really not a lot of money in writing books.

 

Of course, doing it indie (event though I've never done that myself), you are in control of a lot more factors and can theoretically make a lot more money with the right margins. However, I still wonder aloud if in most cases you'd ultimately make noticeably more.



#67 Marc Oberhäuser ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:16 AM

Check out the link in my post. Maybe someone else than Al (or Amazon) is interested.

 

Ah, now I get it. Lesen hilft... ;)



#68 Tarzilla OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:49 AM

I suppose printing in the USA is no option too? Or would the shipping problem prohibit this?

How about putting the burden of shipping within the USA to someone else? E.g. sell 100 packages to a distributor, ship them cheaper via container and let the distributor handle the rest?

This Book Kickstarter had a retailers option (this level is available to retailers with a valid Tax ID number only. )

 

https://www.kickstar...-art-chronology



#69 Marc Oberhäuser ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:38 PM

This Book Kickstarter had a retailers option (this level is available to retailers with a valid Tax ID number only. )

 

https://www.kickstar...-art-chronology

 

Yep, a good idea.



#70 davidcalgary29 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:46 PM

 

Bubble Trouble is included, PITS not. Do you think it qualifies for the book?

 

P.I.T.S. is unique for the amount of detail put into its packaging and documentation. Did any other third party ever sell a game bundled with the actual console?

I'd say it's a must for the book. Even if you have to kick out Lynx Invades Japan. :)

 

If this book gets backed, though, I'm going to change my slot to A8 Hans Kloss or Miecze Valdgira.



#71 Marc Oberhäuser ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:30 PM

 

P.I.T.S. is unique for the amount of detail put into its packaging and documentation. Did any other third party ever sell a game bundled with the actual console?

I'd say it's a must for the book. Even if you have to kick out Lynx Invades Japan. :)

 

If this book gets backed, though, I'm going to change my slot to A8 Hans Kloss or Miecze Valdgira.

 

No "Hans Kloss" in the book. Could become very very expensive.



#72 davidcalgary29 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:08 PM

Well darn. Did any Polish games make the cut? What about Yoomp!?

#73 Marc Oberhäuser ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:10 AM

Well darn. Did any Polish games make the cut? What about Yoomp!?

 

The issue with "Hans Kloss" are the swastika in the game. To promote a game with such a content is a serious crime in Germany. https://en.wikipedia...uch_section_86a

 

Since the book only features releases from back in the days any other game could have only be added via the special pledge level. Quality-wise there are tons of Polish games that would have to be in the book.



#74 Marc Oberhäuser ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:12 AM

Double post... 



#75 Xebec OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:52 AM

Is this getting attention on non Atari forums?   like English Amiga board or others where there may be a lot of Atari users?  






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