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Retro gaming bubble, and how deep are we in it?

retro console bubble invest

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#76 Good_Times OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 8, 2017 6:18 PM

I've got a 'retro bubble' on my lower left buttock, thankfully it's ready to pop.



#77 BassGuitari OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 8, 2017 7:20 PM

I've got a 'retro bubble' on my lower left buttock, thankfully it's ready to pop.

Thanks for that.



#78 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 9, 2017 3:16 AM

I've got a 'retro bubble' on my lower left buttock, thankfully it's ready to pop.

 

Well hurry it up and stick a pin in there!

Bahhhrrroooopp!! heheheh



#79 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 9, 2017 3:37 AM

In the early 1980's the ColecoVision would've been classified as a 3rd generation console machine by me - for numerous reasons. In the months leading up to it my mind was expanding faster than a fat ass at McDonald's. I wasn't disappointed with the hi-fidelity versions of the more obscure arcade games. I was still going strong at collecting cartridges and stuff.

 

But I was disappointed with the vaporware SuperGame Module. The way it was presented to me was that it would be using some sort of hi-tech solid state wafer memory. And I envisioned something like today's SSDs. Heady stuff for a kid at the time. Then I heard there were problems with making it work, then I head they got it to work, but used a streamer tape of some sort. Then I head about delays. then. I started getting tired of waiting.

 

I started wondering about why companies weren't using the full graphical power of whatever hardware was in vogue at the time. Then the market flooded itself with shit. And I focused heavily on computers and let all consoles slide into oblivion.



#80 ubersaurus OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 9, 2017 10:10 AM

Me too! I mean, I like the Coleco, but it's one of the stepchildren of my collection. It was a system I wasn't especially interested in originally, but eventually branched out to. My core interests when I started collecting were the 2600, 5200, Odyssey 2, and Intellivision. I didn't even get into the 7800 until much later. The Coleco just didn't resonate with me the same way those other systems did, for whatever reason.

I don't know if I'd sell mine, though; pre-NES stuff is my forte, and the Coleco is certainly an important enough console in that lineage to warrant keeping it. And my Coleco collection is pretty small compared to a lot of peoples', and mostly comprised of the "greatest hits." So it's not a real hassle keeping it around. But if somebody offered me slightly too much money for it, I'd probably let it go. I'm more of an Intellivision guy anyway. :P :-D
 

 

I'm with you on this. I like the Coleco just fine, and it's got some great arcade ports, but of all my pre-NES systems it is certainly on the lower end of how often I want to play it. Maybe it's the wretched controllers, maybe it's all the bizarre issues specific to the Colecovision they can develop, dunno. It's never clicked with me the way the 2600, Intellivision, Odyssey2, Vectrex, Bally or even the Channel F have (though it's still doing better than the Studio II and Arcadia). I honestly have the same problem with the 5200 to a lesser extent, so maybe that "second wave" circa 82 is just not my bag so much. Still wouldn't want to sell them though - there's just too many good games on the platforms and their own weird little story.



#81 Flojomojo OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 9, 2017 11:17 AM

maybe that "second wave" circa 82 is just not my bag so much

 

My personal experience: I was a kid back then, so they seemed impossibly expensive. The VCS was still getting lots of games, and was way more affordable. The innovations like "pause button" and higher resolution were adopted by NES and Master System, who also had lots of games, many of which were deeper than anything on the CV/5200. Years later, we had MAME so lukewarm arcade ports from 1982 weren't as compelling as the real thing. 

 

As a result, I love the idea of the 5200 and ColecoVision platforms more than the actual things. 



#82 zzip ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 9, 2017 12:07 PM

My personal experience: I was a kid back then, so they seemed impossibly expensive. The VCS was still getting lots of games, and was way more affordable. The innovations like "pause button" and higher resolution were adopted by NES and Master System, who also had lots of games, many of which were deeper than anything on the CV/5200. Years later, we had MAME so lukewarm arcade ports from 1982 weren't as compelling as the real thing. 
 
As a result, I love the idea of the 5200 and ColecoVision platforms more than the actual things.


When we were used to staring at blocky 2600 graphics, the CV/5200 seemed to have infinite possibilities with games that looked "just like the arcade". Of course there never was an actual arcade machine sitting next to them to compare to when we'd think such thoughts :P or we'd realize they still came up short. I think we just remember them as "new and exciting" and get nostalgic for the new and exciting feelings we had

#83 Flojomojo OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 9, 2017 1:32 PM

I distinctly remember the moment in the PSone/N64/Saturn era where reviewers started to say "just an arcade port." I was still like, it's an ARCADE GAME! In your HOUSE!! What is the PROBLEM?!?!?!?



#84 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 9, 2017 3:49 PM

ColecoVision was the big stink around my area at the time. And the time just before it was officially released. Anyone who was anyone and worth anything knew about ColecoVision. And those that actually had one were elevated to near godhood status.



#85 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:39 AM

The transition to when home hardware was as good as the arcade was steady and gradual. I feel it crossed over when the first 3D accelerators showed up on the PC. Or perhaps slightly earlier with the top-of-the-line 2D accelerators. But for certain the switchover was solidly in place by Voodoo2 days.

 

At that point there were too many fighting games in the arcade and I was losing interest because of that. I never fully regained it. Not that I miss it or anything. Definitely didn't miss having to get in the car and spend an hour in traffic just to get to and from any nearby arbitrary arcade.



#86 Professor Gull OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:49 AM

The transition to when home hardware was as good as the arcade was steady and gradual. I feel it crossed over when the first 3D accelerators showed up on the PC. Or perhaps slightly earlier with the top-of-the-line 2D accelerators. But for certain the switchover was solidly in place by Voodoo2 days.

 

At that point there were too many fighting games in the arcade and I was losing interest because of that. I never fully regained it. Not that I miss it or anything. Definitely didn't miss having to get in the car and spend an hour in traffic just to get to and from any nearby arbitrary arcade.

Not to mention the dumping of quarters into the machines right?

 

Spend $60 to own the game or $60 in quarters to play it. Owning it tends to have much more appeal at that point.



#87 djour OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:59 PM

Don't forget the hassle of asking mom and dad for a ride to the arcade or Circle-K where the game was.



#88 Flojomojo OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:22 PM

Now it's just the hassle of asking mom or dad to authorize your in-app purchases of smurfberries so you can construct your castle faster. 



#89 hizzy OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:22 PM

I didn't have the chance to play arcade games much because arcades were pretty shady in my town. They were next to peep shows and strip clubs. Lots of drug pushers and hookers used to be around, too. When I did get to play games, it was most often in bowling alleys that had a small game section. 


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#90 djour OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:11 PM

I didn't have the chance to play arcade games much because arcades were pretty shady in my town. They were next to peep shows and strip clubs. Lots of drug pushers and hookers used to be around, too. When I did get to play games, it was most often in bowling alleys that had a small game section. 

This sounds like the side plot of every tween adventure film of the 80's



#91 hizzy OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:30 PM

Montreal of the past was a bit of a shady town. Our main drag was like times square before it was cleaned up. It's really sanitized now. I used to go shopping for LP's as a teen and then would go to a burger king full of hookers, cross-dressers, addicts. I had some interesting conversations there. The peep shows were right next to the arcades. Now, I think even super sexe is out of business. 

 


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#92 atarilovesyou OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:40 PM

Here's the bottom line, and I'm not taking shots at the OP on this, it's just these types of posts are getting so frequent and, personally annoying, that I had to chime in.  First, there's no 'bubble'.  Anybody buying these games for investment purposes are, in fact, just making unwise decisions.  We have plenty of evidence for that.  That said, are some games worth a lot of money?  Sure are.  Will they continue to be worth a lot?  Most likely, in fact.  Somebody here mentioned guitars...very good analogy.  There were dips in the vintage electric guitar market, but believe you me, those Gibsons and Fenders from the 50s are worth far more today than they ever have been, dips be damned.

 

The original carts will always keep some value.  Right now, we're still not at the 'top' of the SNES nostalgia (I'd say NES too, but let's face it, SNES just has a much wider appeal to modern gamers and THAT is what's pushing this boom...not speculators), so that Chronotrigger is still going to keep rising in value for many years to come.

 

As far as where the glass ceiling is?...who cares.  People are pissed off at each for some reason, and it's all getting boring.  Yes, boring: I collect, so what?  Some people like to collect physical carts, some don't, some wanna put them on shelves, some wanna play them, everybody has an opinion, but who the fack cares anymore because it's just getting painfully BORING to discuss.  If I hear another jab at someone who thinks collecting NES games or the Classic mini or whatever, I'll eat my Contra manual.  How in the world does it make a difference to you how somebody else enjoys this hobby?  It doesn't, and it never will.  We all have multicarts by now, don't we?  Is there really any excuse for gamers to not have means to play the classic games on classic systems for fractions of what the original hardware costs?  Yes, those are collectible items and I'm sorry you can't find Contra for ten bucks anymore (which you can, if you know where to look) but that's how it goes with lots of collectibles.  Comics and baseball cards from the 90s had their moment, but something like the NES and SNES are going to have a lot of pull for a much longer time simply because they appealed across so many demographics and so many people want this stuff. 

 

Keep in mind that the majority of the games on the NES today are still far less than what they sold for new back in the day (before any major discounts)...so they're not smart investments, but if you have nice CIB or MISB games, you're damn right they're going to be worth a lot more in ten years than they are now.  Mark my words, in fact...it's just the way that works.  Nobody is going to give away a mint Zelda for nothing, and the market isn't going to be flooded somehow once the collectors kick the bucket.  There will be no laughing at saps unless they really, REALLY went above and beyond.

 

Anyway, back to guitars and another analogy.  I find today to be the BEST days of retro gaming, and specifically BECAUSE of the amount of non-retro gamers involved in the hobby!  There's money being spent, and people are actually creating JOBS on the retro market...so these are good days indeed!  And we must enjoy it now, because believe me, at some point, when there's not enough product out there to support that part of the hobby, all the retro stores will close and the expos will be smaller and things will generally not be as much fun.  So much like the guitar community at large scoffed when Guitar Hero was uber popular (saying "that's not a REAL guitar! What a waste of time!" all the while young kids are actually listening to classic rock, metal, songs that they would have NEVER been exposed to were it not for this 'gimmick' game) and, by the time they figured out what a boon of popularity it was for the actual instrument, missed out on a golden opportunity to bring more fans to the table.  Same goes for retro gaming: let's get this hobby FULL of people who love playing old games, no matter if they wanna collect physical copies, use emulators, handhelds, whatever!  The more retro fans there are, the stronger the hobby is, the longer it lasts and the more companies we'll have catering to our retro needs.  Yes, I do believe this is a golden age for retrogaming fun....even though it may be prohibitively expensive to get some actual hardware, it's still magnitudes cheaper than getting into other hobbies or even the current modern video game market (for the most part, after you buy the system and download the games).

 

So no, there's no bubble.  It's just collectible stuff doing what collectibles do.  And if you're really that worried about how much the games are increasing in price (even maybe kicking yourself for getting rid of your stuff that now commands top dollars), don't worry about it.  You can get into the hobby with very little cost.  Collecting has always been volatile, but that's just the way it goes.  Doesn't affect me one bit, nor should it you.  But hey, that's just my opinion.



#93 Flojomojo OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:31 AM

So what do I need to do to get you to eat a Contra manual? Please recap. It would make for some good video, a nice change from "dweeb with dumb facial hair rants in front of wall of 1990s era game detritus"

#94 atarilovesyou OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:19 PM

...hey man, I'll only eat a repro manual, you know that :D  Can't ruin the collectibllllzzzzz



#95 ApolloBoy OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:36 AM

For some, aligning the position of a board in a case is a technical operation best left to those with official certified training. And wires? Plugging things in, anything more than a cellphone charger, is a complex operation. THEY EXIST!!
 
Those same saps might not even understand copying things to microSD. If it's not in their cloud it's a mysterious operation full of voodoo mysticism.

old.jpg

Edited by ApolloBoy, Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:37 AM.


#96 tdp OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:01 PM

Here's the bottom line, and I'm not taking shots at the OP on this, it's just these types of posts are getting so frequent and, personally annoying, that I had to chime in.  First, there's no 'bubble'.  Anybody buying these games for investment purposes are, in fact, just making unwise decisions.  We have plenty of evidence for that.  That said, are some games worth a lot of money?  Sure are.  Will they continue to be worth a lot?  Most likely, in fact.  Somebody here mentioned guitars...very good analogy.  There were dips in the vintage electric guitar market, but believe you me, those Gibsons and Fenders from the 50s are worth far more today than they ever have been, dips be damned.

 

The original carts will always keep some value.  Right now, we're still not at the 'top' of the SNES nostalgia (I'd say NES too, but let's face it, SNES just has a much wider appeal to modern gamers and THAT is what's pushing this boom...not speculators), so that Chronotrigger is still going to keep rising in value for many years to come.

 

As far as where the glass ceiling is?...who cares.  People are pissed off at each for some reason, and it's all getting boring.  Yes, boring: I collect, so what?  Some people like to collect physical carts, some don't, some wanna put them on shelves, some wanna play them, everybody has an opinion, but who the fack cares anymore because it's just getting painfully BORING to discuss.  If I hear another jab at someone who thinks collecting NES games or the Classic mini or whatever, I'll eat my Contra manual.  How in the world does it make a difference to you how somebody else enjoys this hobby?  It doesn't, and it never will.  We all have multicarts by now, don't we?  Is there really any excuse for gamers to not have means to play the classic games on classic systems for fractions of what the original hardware costs?  Yes, those are collectible items and I'm sorry you can't find Contra for ten bucks anymore (which you can, if you know where to look) but that's how it goes with lots of collectibles.  Comics and baseball cards from the 90s had their moment, but something like the NES and SNES are going to have a lot of pull for a much longer time simply because they appealed across so many demographics and so many people want this stuff. 

 

Keep in mind that the majority of the games on the NES today are still far less than what they sold for new back in the day (before any major discounts)...so they're not smart investments, but if you have nice CIB or MISB games, you're damn right they're going to be worth a lot more in ten years than they are now.  Mark my words, in fact...it's just the way that works.  Nobody is going to give away a mint Zelda for nothing, and the market isn't going to be flooded somehow once the collectors kick the bucket.  There will be no laughing at saps unless they really, REALLY went above and beyond.

 

Anyway, back to guitars and another analogy.  I find today to be the BEST days of retro gaming, and specifically BECAUSE of the amount of non-retro gamers involved in the hobby!  There's money being spent, and people are actually creating JOBS on the retro market...so these are good days indeed!  And we must enjoy it now, because believe me, at some point, when there's not enough product out there to support that part of the hobby, all the retro stores will close and the expos will be smaller and things will generally not be as much fun.  So much like the guitar community at large scoffed when Guitar Hero was uber popular (saying "that's not a REAL guitar! What a waste of time!" all the while young kids are actually listening to classic rock, metal, songs that they would have NEVER been exposed to were it not for this 'gimmick' game) and, by the time they figured out what a boon of popularity it was for the actual instrument, missed out on a golden opportunity to bring more fans to the table.  Same goes for retro gaming: let's get this hobby FULL of people who love playing old games, no matter if they wanna collect physical copies, use emulators, handhelds, whatever!  The more retro fans there are, the stronger the hobby is, the longer it lasts and the more companies we'll have catering to our retro needs.  Yes, I do believe this is a golden age for retrogaming fun....even though it may be prohibitively expensive to get some actual hardware, it's still magnitudes cheaper than getting into other hobbies or even the current modern video game market (for the most part, after you buy the system and download the games).

 

So no, there's no bubble.  It's just collectible stuff doing what collectibles do.  And if you're really that worried about how much the games are increasing in price (even maybe kicking yourself for getting rid of your stuff that now commands top dollars), don't worry about it.  You can get into the hobby with very little cost.  Collecting has always been volatile, but that's just the way it goes.  Doesn't affect me one bit, nor should it you.  But hey, that's just my opinion.

Some interesting views, put in an ............ interesting (i guess) manner. As I stated, not an expert, just a fan who finds things like this interesting, and wanted a discussion. My intention was not to annoy anyone. Or to make them consider consuming parts of their collection.

 

As for my post, it was more about how I see retro gaming going through a boom/bust cycle somewhat like the housing market. Not personally worried about it, just interested. That's it. I was just looking for a light-hearted discussion about, nothing more.



#97 tdp OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:41 PM

 

Atari is like classical music, only for the connoisseur.

I agree with this.



#98 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:54 PM

I'm not too worried about what my stuff is worth because my core sentimental systems and paraphernalia are keepers. I don't plan on selling it. The other "stuffage"? Ehh? Who cares what sells for. Postage and my time is good.

 

I also believe that people like checking up on others' collections out of a sense of security and that they are doing the right thing. Not a whole lot different than the sheeple thing. Might even be a roundabout way of placing a value on something. Being in the in group..

 

I'll argue the someone else's collection influences your own and how you enjoy the hobby. Because you may treat your stuff differently if it's in demand and popular as opposed to being a dime-a-dozen.

 

Here's the bottom line, and I'm not taking shots at the OP on this, it's just these types of posts are getting so frequent and, personally annoying, that I had to chime in.  First, there's no 'bubble'.  Anybody buying these games for investment purposes are, in fact, just making unwise decisions.  We have plenty of evidence for that.  That said, are some games worth a lot of money?  Sure are.  Will they continue to be worth a lot?  Most likely, in fact.  Somebody here mentioned guitars...very good analogy.  There were dips in the vintage electric guitar market, but believe you me, those Gibsons and Fenders from the 50s are worth far more today than they ever have been, dips be damned.

 

[..]

 

As far as where the glass ceiling is?...who cares.  People are pissed off at each for some reason, and it's all getting boring.  Yes, boring: I collect, so what?  Some people like to collect physical carts, some don't, some wanna put them on shelves, some wanna play them, everybody has an opinion, but who the fack cares anymore because it's just getting painfully BORING to discuss.  If I hear another jab at someone who thinks collecting NES games or the Classic mini or whatever, I'll eat my Contra manual.  How in the world does it make a difference to you how somebody else enjoys this hobby?  It doesn't, and it never will.  We all have multicarts by now, don't we?  Is there really any excuse for gamers to not have means to play the classic games on classic systems for fractions of what the original hardware costs?  Yes, those are collectible items and I'm sorry you can't find Contra for ten bucks anymore (which you can, if you know where to look) but that's how it goes with lots of collectibles.  Comics and baseball cards from the 90s had their moment, but something like the NES and SNES are going to have a lot of pull for a much longer time simply because they appealed across so many demographics and so many people want this stuff. 

 

[..]


 



#99 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:03 PM

Now it's just the hassle of asking mom or dad to authorize your in-app purchases of smurfberries so you can construct your castle faster. 

It goes back even further than that. This was a problem that started in the BBS era. The 70's equivalent was begging the parents for extra phone time so I could download Apple WaReZ and Gamez, long-distance! This back in the 300/1200 BBS days.

 

Well, heh, some years later I realized that in those times it could be cheaper just to go buy the game rather than pirate it. Hours and hours of long-distance charges to connect out of my prefix area was more than $29.95 x 5 games!

 



#100 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:33 PM

Don't forget the hassle of asking mom and dad for a ride to the arcade or Circle-K where the game was.

 

That was kind of cool for a while. We could stink up the old Chevy with McDonald's outgassings and read EGM on the way, to and from the arcade itself. But it really wasn't compatible with girls.

 

 

Not to mention the dumping of quarters into the machines right?

 

Spend $60 to own the game or $60 in quarters to play it. Owning it tends to have much more appeal at that point.

 

That's right. I also rather outgrew a lot of the arcade games by the mid/late 90's. I found them to be repetitive and shallow, and still too difficult. They felt like real work trying to get enough points and lives to make it worth my time anymore. The grind became too much to enjoy. But they had served their purpose.

 

I was getting into flight simulators and space simulators, along with discovering how more advanced programming worked (I'm not an official programmer) ..and how the PC architecture and eco-system worked. The PC's higher resolution and greater depth of gameplay along with it's endless capability for drawing thousands of sprites at once was too enticing not to get into. The home stuff was picking up speed nicely and the remaining attracting force of the arcade, the then superior graphics and sound weren't so enticing anymore.

 

And with the debut of big-time 3D games like Doom I was all set to never play another quarter-based game ever. It was a rather steep cut-off. Both money and interest were huge factors. And gas getting there. And all the speeding tickets. I was not sorry to see those end times really come to an end quickly and decisively.

 

There were a few games that I enjoyed and actually finished during the "end-times", Super Space Invaders, RoadBlasters, Blasteroids, Assault, and a couple others. All at Galaxy World IIRC.







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