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They're calling it a New Amiga?


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#1 Sinphaltimus OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 9, 2017 5:16 AM

https://www.theregis...d_in_late_2017/

#2 sm3 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 9, 2017 7:10 PM

Yeah, interesting, from their PDF:

 

"The Vampire V4 standalone system will be a complete new Amiga system powered by the 68080 CPU core and

the complete SAGA chipset (AGA compatible)"



#3 Sinphaltimus OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:58 AM

I was just wondering because I hear people who love the idea saying it's not an Amiga, it's a Vampire, which I can get behind. I guess it is a new Amiga in a sense. I have the3 V500v2+ and love it. Just wating on goldv3. There maybe a standalone for me in 2018 but I jsut got my V500 so there's time...



#4 Arnuphis OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:50 AM

I guess it comes down to what you think makes an Amiga an Amiga. Is it the OS or is it the custom chips? (Denise, Gary, Agnus etc.) If you feel it's the latter then is the X1000/X5000 really an Amiga either?



#5 majestyx OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:41 PM

Should be interesting to see what the asking price for this will be. Considering how outrageously expensive an AmigaOne is, especially considering how little there is to do with one despite all the enhancements to it while still retaining the Amiga moniker, I'd consider purchasing a standalone version myself if the price is right.



#6 eightbit OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:41 PM

So the FPGA Vampire becomes an FPGA Amiga clone....can;t say I didn't see that one coming ;) I'll stick with my trusty A2000 :)



#7 Sinphaltimus OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:26 AM

eightbit - I think that was the plan all along I just never expected it to happen so soon. Also, I guess the topic is a bit off, Apollo is not calling it a new Amiga, the article author is. I have a vampirized A500 and cannot really enjoy it until Goldv3 is available - I have one screen with multiple inputs and switching between RTG and RGB has run its course. 

I really like the idea of the stand-alone because should anything happen to my A500, I'd be very wary of purchased another (old hardware) vs. a clone (newer harder to last). I never owned a big box amiga and always wanted one. The 2000 is a tank for sure. No one is going to take that away from you except maybe time and age.

I just got Amibian up and running on a Pi3 and kind of like it so far. I have yet to start using more like a real Amiga to see what I can do on it vs. what my vampire A500 can do. And the main point is, they can't do a damn thing. Only I can, they are tools and people choose the tools they prefer. Although these are old tools (OS) and programs, the hobby of it all is to have fun.



#8 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:32 AM

Heh leave it up to an idiot internet "journalist" to call something something it is not. The Vampire is an Amiga emulator. There can be no debate on that point.



#9 RupanIII OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:00 PM

Well, it's an FPGA implementing the circuit processing etc in hardware of Denise, Gary, Agnus, etc... it's a reconfigurable SOC on  FPGA... with some expanded modes and enhancements to Blitter and Sprites I believe, so, i mean, if there were a real Amiga Company which had all of the schematics of the original and released an FPGA which linked to expansion bus hardware interfaces in a new box, nobody would argue... sure, use one chip which can be fixed/enhanced, gee, sounds so smart of them, but, since it's not this fictional Perfect Amiga Company people bitch and moan that it's not real. 
I had an A500 from Sears on closeout and could never get the full use out of it, but, I am from 'back then' myself... IMHO, it's certainly a 'real amiga' and a fantastic effort compared to things like Flashback system releases or Amiga One etc. 

I guess it comes down to what you think makes an Amiga an Amiga. Is it the OS or is it the custom chips? (Denise, Gary, Agnus etc.) If you feel it's the latter then is the X1000/X5000 really an Amiga either?



#10 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:13 PM

It's a simulation, an emulation, of a real Amiga. It is neither good nor bad. It just is. It doesn't matter who makes it. Official Commodore or a small time operation. It remains an emulation. That fact can't be contested.



#11 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:25 AM

I guess it comes down to what you think makes an Amiga an Amiga. Is it the OS or is it the custom chips? (Denise, Gary, Agnus etc.) If you feel it's the latter then is the X1000/X5000 really an Amiga either?


An Amiga can only be a mixture of the chips and OS.

#12 LoTonah ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:49 AM

I don't know what all the fuss is about.  Everyone is going to have their preferences.

 

At this point, there are three main options:

 

1).  Run the old hardware (despite the fact that more of them are failing with each passing year)

2).  Run emulation on your Mac/Windows/Linux box, or a Raspberry Pi.

3).  Run one of these FPGA solutions.  

 

Basically, I think of the Vampire standalone is like using an emulator, without having to deal with a host operating system and all the bullshit that it brings with it.  They are fast to boot, and with a lot of the modern amenities that we want like USB and SD cards.

 

Frankly, my biggest concern is whether it is worth buying the Vampire, or just using a Raspberry Pi booting Ambian, since I'm interested in having a stand-alone box instead of using my main computer.  My A500 is getting flakey, and my A2000 won't boot anymore from the hard drive.  I no longer have the funds to keep it going, either.  I'm not so rabid that I can't see options 2 or 3 as viable, thankfully.



#13 Sinphaltimus OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:55 AM

I don't know what all the fuss is about.  Everyone is going to have their preferences.

 

At this point, there are three main options:

 

1).  Run the old hardware (despite the fact that more of them are failing with each passing year)

2).  Run emulation on your Mac/Windows/Linux box, or a Raspberry Pi.

3).  Run one of these FPGA solutions.  

 

Basically, I think of the Vampire standalone is like using an emulator, without having to deal with a host operating system and all the bullshit that it brings with it.  They are fast to boot, and with a lot of the modern amenities that we want like USB and SD cards.

 

Frankly, my biggest concern is whether it is worth buying the Vampire, or just using a Raspberry Pi booting Ambian, since I'm interested in having a stand-alone box instead of using my main computer.  My A500 is getting flakey, and my A2000 won't boot anymore from the hard drive.  I no longer have the funds to keep it going, either.  I'm not so rabid that I can't see options 2 or 3 as viable, thankfully.

 

 

Yep - running Vampirized A500, Amiga forever, WinUAE, Amibian and Amiberry on 4 different devices. Also giving Icaros a shot on an old laptop.


Edited by Sinphaltimus, Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:56 AM.


#14 majestyx OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:00 PM

LoTonah - you've pretty much spoken my sentiments as well. Over the past few months I took out my old hardware and have spent a small fortune getting them up and running and am not certain how much more I really want to sink into them. Plus, even though they are ORIGINAL Amigas, there was always compatibility issues between all of the models even when Commodore was in business. Between multiple Kickstarts, Workbenches, fast/slow/chip RAM configurations, custom chipsets... it's impossible to have one physical original system to run everything. I've got 2 working A500s, a working A1000 and a working A4000/040, plus an A600 that needs re-capping, the money I've put into them, both back in the day and recently, is becoming diminishing returns. This is why I wouldn't mind an all-in-one single-box solution than can emulate/simulate all the different models and configurations of the Amiga over the years.

 

At this point, the most cost effective way appears to be Raspberry Pi, although I've not tried it, so I don't know how it benchmarks against the real hardware. Can it emulate an A4000/040 at the same speed as or higher than the original? If so, I'll need to look into that solution.



#15 LoTonah ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:27 PM

LoTonah - you've pretty much spoken my sentiments as well. Over the past few months I took out my old hardware and have spent a small fortune getting them up and running and am not certain how much more I really want to sink into them. Plus, even though they are ORIGINAL Amigas, there was always compatibility issues between all of the models even when Commodore was in business. Between multiple Kickstarts, Workbenches, fast/slow/chip RAM configurations, custom chipsets... it's impossible to have one physical original system to run everything. I've got 2 working A500s, a working A1000 and a working A4000/040, plus an A600 that needs re-capping, the money I've put into them, both back in the day and recently, is becoming diminishing returns. This is why I wouldn't mind an all-in-one single-box solution than can emulate/simulate all the different models and configurations of the Amiga over the years.

 

At this point, the most cost effective way appears to be Raspberry Pi, although I've not tried it, so I don't know how it benchmarks against the real hardware. Can it emulate an A4000/040 at the same speed as or higher than the original? If so, I'll need to look into that solution.

 

According to this video (about the Raspberry Pi):

 

https://www.youtube....M6cLVUg&t=1550s

 

Running SysInfo, it says 7.16 times faster than an A400 @ 25MHz.  So yeah, it is pretty sweet that way.

 

Once I get this up and running, and it is stable, I may be looking at selling off what's left of my Amiga hardware. 



#16 majestyx OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:29 PM

Wow, then that's pretty fast. Will have to rethink what I'd like to do with my entire Amiga collection now. I'll likely keep the cream of the crop since I have so many disks and add-ons. Will definitely give it some thought. Thanks for the youtube link.



#17 majestyx OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:09 PM

I just noticed the SysInfo comment is "Phone Me NOW!!!"



#18 eightbit OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:55 PM

The Pi3 is definitely the most cost effective way to play Amiga (and just about every console up to PS1)  to near emulated perfection. Which I can also do on my PC...my phone...well you get the idea. If I desperately needed cash and needed to sell my Amiga stuff and still wanted to run the software it would be the way to go. Still it is no substitute for the real deal.



#19 eightbit OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:03 PM

Now that I have the Vampire A500V2+ in my Amiga 2000 I can say personally that it is a good thing for a lot of reasons. First, it lightened the load on the PSU as it took place of the various cards I had in the system that were drawing power. Second, it exceeded the performance of them all. It kept the ram I had and increased the acceleration by many many times. And finally, it kept my Amiga 2000 still working the same as it ever did but now with some serious performance and HDMI out as well as enhanced graphics modes that you would only get with expensive video cards.

 

I was against it due to its "non-pureness" so to speak, but after having a good run with it I can say without a doubt it is a great thing. I personally could not go with a Amiga "stand alone" because it would not be *my* Amiga, but this configuration is my Amiga with a new heart :) I do really like the vampire and what the Apollo team has accomplished with this device. It saved me a heck of a lot of money to get this thing ultimately where I wanted it to be all along...and now I can really enjoy it all that much more. 

 

That said, I am a convert ;)



#20 pacman000 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 7, 2017 2:51 PM

I don't know what all the fuss is about.  Everyone is going to have their preferences.

 

At this point, there are three main options:

 

1).  Run the old hardware (despite the fact that more of them are failing with each passing year)

2).  Run emulation on your Mac/Windows/Linux box, or a Raspberry Pi.

3).  Run one of these FPGA solutions.  

 

Basically, I think of the Vampire standalone is like using an emulator, without having to deal with a host operating system and all the bullshit that it brings with it.  They are fast to boot, and with a lot of the modern amenities that we want like USB and SD cards.

 

Frankly, my biggest concern is whether it is worth buying the Vampire, or just using a Raspberry Pi booting Ambian, since I'm interested in having a stand-alone box instead of using my main computer.  My A500 is getting flakey, and my A2000 won't boot anymore from the hard drive.  I no longer have the funds to keep it going, either.  I'm not so rabid that I can't see options 2 or 3 as viable, thankfully.

Option 4) Spend millions to recreate the actual chips and license the OS. ;)



#21 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 7, 2017 5:24 PM

Option 4) Spend millions to recreate the actual chips and license the OS. ;)

 

Ideally this is what almost every classic hardware enthusiast wants for their favorite platform. BTMK this hasn't happened for any platform. Even partially. No one has even recreated or marketed a simple VCS or Intellivision system. No one is making new "custom" chips or parts. No new GTIA or POKEY or DENISE. Everything is NOS or slavaged shit from ebay.

 

Just the thought of a newly fabbed old-school videogame chip sends everyone scurrying for the safety of FPGA or Software Emulation.



#22 OLD CS1 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 7, 2017 7:31 PM

Yeah, but even if we could fab the old chips, those methods of fabrication are so obsolete they are ridiculously expensive.  Even Intel just recently discontinued the 486 CPU because the fabrication of the chips, which were still selling rather well to the embedded market, was too expensive given the manufacturing space could be used to produce more modern processors.  An article talking about the 486s modern production here and here, though I am unable to find the article I read at the time discussing the cost of production, though the Register article has a quote from which one could infer the cost of production versus order volume had passed the threshold of fiscal feasibility.

 

When you are talking replacements for things like CPUs (6500-series, 68000,) interface adapters (like the CIA or VIA,) bus controllers (like the PLA, Buster, or Fat Agnes) even video chips (VIC-II,) FPGA replacements make sense and there are indeed replacements for most of those.  One would run into problems with replicating more specialty chips like SID (6581, 8580, etc.) or POKEY simply because digital replacements will never be 100% accurate, but still feasible (and, again, there are a couple of FPGA replacements for the SID.)

 

I see absolutely no problem with bringing one of our old beloved beasts into the technology available today.  Many believe these computers should remain fixed at the level of technology at the time of their untimely deaths.  I find that I very much enjoy working with the older technology and understanding how it works and how to keep it working, but I also find the required maintenance becomes impractical.

 

Is the MiniMig any less of an Amiga simply because it emulates the ECS hardware?  Is the C64 Reloaded with a SwinSID any less a Commodore 64 when that blue screen lights up the room and starts loading Last Ninja from an SD2IEC?  How much is a TI-99/4A different with an F18A installed?  Is the Vampire any less of an Amiga because it leaves the old hardware behind?  Was that not the ultimate goal back then, anyway?

 

These are the problems which plague platforms trying to break out of the older technology mold, like the splinter of AmigaOS going to MorphOS or AmigaOS 4 on PowerPC, and, man-power aside, what will prevent it from moving to a more feasible processor like ARM or x64.

 

What is Boing?  If it is Boing to you, then is it not Boing?

 

(Edited to correct the Intel CPU from 233MMX to 486.)



#23 ianoid OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 7, 2017 7:46 PM

FPGA isn't technically an emulation. It's closer to a hardware reproduction than an emulation. 

 

If you like playing on classic hardware, that's great. I think that using the hardware puts it at risk for failure. I'm sure a lot of hardware will die anyway if unused.

 

I'm happy to have FPGA or reproduction hardware for use. In the past, if you wanted to play this stuff, you had to buy old hardware that worked. Now we have options that are 100% compatible with more features to make the experience more enjoyable. I like them because I don't have to worry about damaging my vintage hardware. I'm all for these projects, especially ones that fit in original cases or include a reproduction case and keyboard. But even a nice novel case design  (see 1088xel) can be exciting. 

 

Either way, if you want to use your stuff for another 20 years, you may be lucky enough for it to work without being repaired. However, it's likely that you'll need to repair it or turn to the type of solution described in the opening post. 



#24 OLD CS1 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 7, 2017 7:51 PM

NICE!  I think I would be very happy with a Mini-ITX Amiga (next-gen or "classic") or Commodore 128.



#25 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 7, 2017 7:59 PM

FPGA isn't technically an emulation. It's closer to a hardware reproduction than an emulation.

 

FPGA is emulation, just of a different nature. Technically, and by the book, anything that doesn't resemble object X but behaves like object X is an emulation. I'm pretty confident most FPGA devs will agree.

 

An FPGA chip is no closer to an SNES board or arcade board than an X86 is. Both are radically different in function and what's inside.






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