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#1 Gregory DG OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:53 PM

So, I'm not seeing a thread for this... Sorry if I missed it.

 

How does everyone feel about Minter making up with Atari and creating Tempest 4000?

 

http://www.pcgamer.c...-is-on-the-way/

 

After "Atari" put the hammer down on him for TxK, I never thought we'd see this day happen, so I'm pretty excited! This is a Day 1 purchase for me!

 

What say you?



#2 Austin OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:40 PM

Game looks good. Assuming it's multi-platform, it's a day one purchase for me too.



#3 Shawn OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:28 PM

Game looks good. Assuming it's multi-platform, it's a day one purchase for me too.

 

Nah, It's gonna be an Ataribox exclusive :P



#4 Lost Dragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:33 AM

Would of much preferred Jeff work on a new Llamatron.. but as long as he's not touching Defender.. It's all good.

#5 Flojomojo OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:12 AM

There's a bit more discussion of Tempest 4000 on the Llamasoft forums. This is also the best place to catch Jeff Minter ("Yak") himself talking about the thing. If you follow him on Twitter, he sometimes drops some good knowledge there, but it's mostly pictures of sheep and curry. 

 

Would of much preferred Jeff work on a new Llamatron.. but as long as he's not touching Defender.. It's all good.

 

 

I like Llamatron too, and the new Llamatron game for iOS was delightful. Sadly, there won't be any more of those. As he just now posted, "We don't even have a working Mac any more. I'm afraid as far as me and iOS go Elvis left the building a long time ago." A bunch of us have offered to buy him a development computer, but after the poor market reception to the Minotaur Series on iPhone, he said, "returning to iOS would be like returning to the scene of a mugging."

 

I'm still disappointed that he was unable to adapt to the modern marketplace, but suspect he'll do better with Atari and Sony as partners. They'll help with promotion and placement, which is not where he and his partner shine. 

 

Defender 2000? Aww, it's no worse than the vast majority of Jaguar games. It's also fast and loud (if overly brown). That and Tempest 2000 were keeping me from flipping my Jag for a long time, and Tempest can be played elsewhere. 

 

There's a good bio and game list for him here



#6 Bill Loguidice OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:01 AM

I'm not particularly enthused about Tempest 4K. I really love it as a spinner game, and we certainly won't be getting that option on any of the existing or future platforms.



#7 Lost Dragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:29 AM

I'm not an iOS gamer, but given a dual stick controller is standard on Sony home consoles..it's begging for an update of Llamatron to be done.

As for Defender 2000...

It's nothing to do with where it sits in the Jaguar library, it's as simple as Jeff can't do Defender updates well.

And woah there Kieran and Roberto..don't run crying to JSIII just yet about me being disrespectful..

I paid for ST Defender II and Jaguar Defender 2000 as day 1 purchases..this is my time and money talking here.

Fact is, other people proved what could be done:

Dropzone, Star Ray, Anarchy, Overkill, Super Dropzone, Guardian II:Revenge Of The Mutants,Datastorm, etc

All shame Jeff's attempts..

Mouse control on Defender II?

Defender concepts dragged over to Defender 2000...

People say, ohh but Atari had him change it from CD to Cart, appointed him a manager, he had personal issues going on..

I know..and thanks to Scott Stilphen i had the internal Atari docs detailing games development..

But none of these issues were going on when Jeff did Andes Attack or Defender 2 were they?


I do find Jeff a creative genius.. At times..but he's starting to venture into the type cast mindset..

Edited by Lost Dragon, Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:31 AM.


#8 Flojomojo OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:04 AM

It seems like you are very close to the material, perhaps too close to see it clearly? (That's what my friends say when I defend Star Wars movies)



#9 Bill Loguidice OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:53 AM

For the record, I never liked the look of Defender 2000. It had the chunky sprites and gaudy art design so common in its era when games were getting an update/upgrade (I guess it's the "rendered sprites" look I especially don't like - don't think they aged well). I don't think early 80s sprite work was really topped for my aesthetic preferences until closer to the modern era. More was not better until relatively recently.



#10 Flojomojo OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:10 PM

Yes, true. There were 3 modes, though ...

 

Classic was big, chunky, and FAST

Plus was trippy, also FAST

2000 was ugly, but LOUD and fast. 

 

Agreed about "rendered sprites." They were neat when new, but we've moved on and are no longer impressed by shiny things like that. Flat UI is in now, much more Atari-like!



#11 Lost Dragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:25 PM

It seems like you are very close to the material, perhaps too close to see it clearly? (That's what my friends say when I defend Star Wars movies)


:-)) Either that or i am a glutton for punishment, i bought Midway's very brown update on Defender for the Game Cube as well..that stank as well..so despite what my admirers on JSIII might say..i am not being disrespectful to Jeff for his Jaguar work, he is in good company for those who tried and failed to update Defender.

#12 Lost Dragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:30 PM

http://forums.atari....les/#entry34310

I converted the Atari documentation Scott Stilphen kindly passed onto me, concerning the development of the Jaguar game, if anyone's not seen the files..

Old news of course to JSIII, but for the benefit of normal/causal viewers, you can read them there.

#13 Flojomojo OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:56 PM

:-)) Either that or i am a glutton for punishment, i bought Midway's very brown update on Defender for the Game Cube as well..that stank as well..so despite what my admirers on JSIII might say..i am not being disrespectful to Jeff for his Jaguar work, he is in good company for those who tried and failed to update Defender.

 

Stargate is the best Defender sequel! I didn't care much for that 3D Defender on Cube/Xbox/PS2 either.



#14 Jess Ragan ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:58 PM

"The legendary game designer" who they tried to sue into abject poverty. Boy, their tune sure changed in a hurry.

As for the game? They're going to have to find a way to freshen it up a bit. If it's just straight Tempest, no sale... I could get that experience from TxK, which I already own.

Edited by Jess Ragan, Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:02 PM.


#15 HammR25 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:57 PM

I loved the original Tempest in the arcade but Jeff taught me that I don't like flashing polygonal space games when he released Space Giraffe. When I saw the NIN video with Polybius in it recently that pretty much confirmed I should probably avoid all his games.

#16 Tanooki OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:46 PM

I take offense to that Defender on Gamecube did not stink.



#17 Flojomojo OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:11 PM

I take offense to that Defender on Gamecube did not stink.


It was decidedly "meh," like Hoverstrike/Battlemorph with better frame rate and textures. I think the concept could work in 3D, but it's more interesting to me as a side scroller

#18 Tanooki OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:37 PM

Defender was bad, as a side scroller, if you ever suffered into the GBA release.  Holy hell that one is awful.  The 3D one, and in particular the Gamecube one had the most effort put into it of the three internally.  Look I have a stake in the game as it is anyway, but believe me a lot of effort went into that version including late to the game corrections to make sure it controlled well, if you selected the right scheme (unfortunately.)  You just can't go into Defender wanting the 80s cracked out hard as balls arcade game, but if you go into it as a defender of the solar system/earth type scenario to destroy the alien enemy and save what you can of humanity it's a pretty fun game with a lot of stages with a decent challenge curve that increases with it.  It doesn't suffer like many later in the years updates with cheap garbage and short cuts to make faux challenge or annoying ass moments to make it last longer.

 

Not going to dig into it or go into 15 year old history, but I'll leave it at this -- my name is in the manual, though doesn't credit me entirely properly.  The last of 5 (credited) games from my couple years at Midway before I left CA for KY the first time.



#19 Austin OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:51 PM

It was decidedly "meh," like Hoverstrike/Battlemorph with better frame rate and textures. I think the concept could work in 3D, but it's more interesting to me as a side scroller


It's not bad in its own right, but I think the biggest issue with it is that it had no right having the Defender name attached to it. It should have been its own new IP.

#20 SoundGammon OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:32 PM

Jeff has cool ideas for Tempest to take it to the next level!

 

That's how the Jag version came to be!

 

Don't see anyone trying, just criticizing!



#21 Video OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:33 AM

It better have a raging soundtrack! I love jag tempest, that said, I actually play it more for the music than the game LOL

I need to find a soundtrack disc sometime.

#22 Flojomojo OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:20 AM

Defender was bad, as a side scroller, if you ever suffered into the GBA release.  Holy hell that one is awful.  The 3D one, and in particular the Gamecube one had the most effort put into it of the three internally.  Look I have a stake in the game as it is anyway, but believe me a lot of effort went into that version including late to the game corrections to make sure it controlled well, if you selected the right scheme (unfortunately.)  You just can't go into Defender wanting the 80s cracked out hard as balls arcade game, but if you go into it as a defender of the solar system/earth type scenario to destroy the alien enemy and save what you can of humanity it's a pretty fun game with a lot of stages with a decent challenge curve that increases with it.  It doesn't suffer like many later in the years updates with cheap garbage and short cuts to make faux challenge or annoying ass moments to make it last longer.

 

Not going to dig into it or go into 15 year old history, but I'll leave it at this -- my name is in the manual, though doesn't credit me entirely properly.  The last of 5 (credited) games from my couple years at Midway before I left CA for KY the first time.

 

That's cool that you worked on it. Did you work on Midway Arcade Treasures, too?

 

Here's why I think it was "meh," it's nothing personal: Defender was one of many similar games in that era -- the Starfighter and Clone Wars games, the Battlestar Galactica game, Lair, Rogue Leader ... and to some extent the Spy Hunter remake. Back-of-the-ship view, radar on the top right, quasi real-time-strategy mixed with light sim-style shooting action, it was somewhat in style at the time but has largely been dumped in favor of open-world missions. It was OK back then, but I'm not sure I would have been as drawn to it if not for the old-timer title and inserted sound effects. I remember wondering what kids who didn't grow up with arcade Defender might have thought of it.



#23 Tanooki OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:52 AM

Nah, credited on a few of their sports titles, their legion (excalibur) game, and defender.  Unofficially also Dr Muto GC and PAL Gauntlet GC as I wasn't regular enough on it to get a note.

 

And I know it's not personal.  Yes that style was the rage back then, just as much as GTA3 style before it got played out and me-too by everyone including themselves.  You just have to light a fighter pilot exterior view title is all and it's on the better end of them.  I was a technical standards analyst, co team(test) lead on it, and also designed the secondary control schemes because the cheapasses at Midway wanted to force it out with incomplete controls which pissed me off being a Nintendo fan so I went behind their backs and emailed an entire scheme I came up with alone to our third party developer who threw it in the next day build.  Control C+D are the only working setup on the system, A+B miss the ability to strafe the ship which gets you killed.  Its setup kind of like a mix of Turok an Starfox 64 style controls and works great.



#24 Bill Loguidice OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:29 AM

Jeff has cool ideas for Tempest to take it to the next level!

 

That's how the Jag version came to be!

 

Don't see anyone trying, just criticizing!

 

I don't get your last sentence. All I see if people discussing what they like/don't like about Minter's games and other updated games in a discussion forum. If Tempest 4K is good, it will be good because it's good, not because of anything else.



#25 Lost Dragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:43 AM

I don't get your last sentence. All I see if people discussing what they like/don't like about Minter's games and other updated games in a discussion forum. If Tempest 4K is good, it will be good because it's good, not because of anything else.

Exactly.

In my lifetime Jeff has had my time and money on:

AMC
Hover Bovver
Defender 2
Photon Storm
Llamatron
Tempest 2000
Defender 2000
Space Giraffe
Andes Attack
Revenge II

And he will be looking for it again with Tempest 4K.

Unless it's a radical upgrade..he might not get it..

It's that simple.

Edited by Lost Dragon, Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:52 AM.





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