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Yet another "which model should I get" thread.


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#51 thorr OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:53 PM

Thanks for the info, your post was indeed very helpful. I actually just ended up getting a nice IIe on fleabay. I have to admit that my brain was telling me to get the IIe for expandability and flexibility, but my heart was telling me to get the IIc because I love the design. Now that I have the benefits of the IIe I'll keep an eye out for a fairly priced good condition IIc

You're welcome.  It sounds like you and I were sort of in the same boat.  My heart wanted the IIc, but my head wanted a IIe or IIgs.  It turns out I was able to get the IIc locally for a good price off craigslist and it was in great shape with tons of floppies an Image Writer II, a joystick, and external 5.25 drive, a mouse, a modem, a color monitor, etc.  I had discovered that the Floppy Emu was available and the CFFA is/was hard to find so it quickly became a no brainer to get the IIc.  I always wanted a IIgs, but never had or saw one in person, so I don't have the attachment to it like I do to the IIc.  My school had IIe's but I liked the look of the IIc better and it comes with everything you really need anyway.  You should get a joystick so you can play games with it.  It uses an analog joystick which I love more than the Atari style digital ones.



#52 thorr OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:02 AM

Wow, I didn't know you could get a Mockingboard for a IIc. That is the only thing I wish I could have that a IIe would allow.  I will have to get one of these!  That would make programming games so much more fun (assuming the mockingboard is easy to program). 



#53 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:16 AM

You can do an internal memory board, Z80, clock, 6502 accelerator, and probably more IIRC. Applied Engineering made some practical add-ons. https://en.wikipedia...on_capabilities

 

A project I'd like to do is an external expansion chassis connected via a single small discrete connector in the back. Similar to a docking station. And you'd have real traditional slots in this box. Off hand I don't see any technical reason this couldn't be possible.

 

It would also be nice to build-in a CFFA3000 subsystem. All else fail, stuff an R-Pi in it!



#54 MarkO OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:40 AM

I have to admit that I don't know a hill of beans about Apple II computers, but for me, it was the IIe (Enhanced) that I settled for.
 
The Apple II (not even sure if it was a Plus) was the first personal computer I ever touched (elementary school), so it has a bit of an attachment for me.  However, they seem like expensive collector's items now.  It also bugged me that they didn't have lower case characters, and seemed to top out at 48k.


I first used the Apple ][+ in High School, but when it came to a point that I could buy one, the ][e was available and I was able to acquire a slightly used ][e.

If the Language Card was added to the ][ or ][+, you could have 64K of RAM.. This was mandatory to use Apple Pascal... The Apple ][+ I used in High School had the ROM Card with the Integer BASIC ROMs on them.. Lower Case could be added, but they didn't come that way from the Factory.
 

The IIe looks enough like it to satisfy my nostalgia, plus it's later and presumably more reliable (fewer components) anyway.  I bought the nicest, latest one that I could find at a reasonable price.  It came in this box....
 
attachicon.gifApple IIe 128K Box.jpg
 
....so I figured it must have been a later Enhanced model because it shipped with 128k.


I don't recall if the choice to ship with 128K came before the Factory Enhanced ROMs and the 65C02.. I do know that there are Non Factory Enhanced ][es with the Newer Dark with Black keyboards.. I have three or four of them..

 

The IIe Platinum looks too different for my nostalgia, although it looks like a really fine machine at the same time.


The Form Factor of the Platinum is similar, but the added Keypad throws of the original esthetics... OTOH, the Keypad can be handy, and the Motherboard is further chip reduced, leading to lower power requirements and potentially better reliability.. I actually own One Platinum //e.
 

The IIgs just came too late to pique my interest.  By then, the Atari St and (to some extent) Amiga computers had my attention, and the lion's share of the 16-bit Home Computer software compared to what natively-supported the IIgs' unique capabilities.  Apple II software that captures my sense of nostalgia are the ones that I do most remembering playing on a IIe with a color monitor.


I had moved on to the IBM PCs by the time the ][gs came out, but I have aquired a few in the last 5 years... They have Great backwards compatibility with the 128K //es and //cs, and a whole lot of nicer features...

 

I always though that the IIc was an amazing design for its time, but there's that darned nostalgia again for the bigger II computers, and of course the IIc can't accomodate the CFFA3000 card, so that makes it a no-go for me.

 
I had one of the original //cs, and it was a cool, portable Apple ][..... I am very sad I sold it, BITD, to fund my first IBM-AT clone... :(

The CFFA3000 is one bad-ass Apple II accessory:
 

 
 
Although I grew up with (and remain obsessed with) Atari 8-bit computers, a IIe with a CFFA3000, and a Commodore 64 with a 1541 Ultimate II have somehow managed to generate some 8-bit junkie interest in me.


The CFFA3000 is a fantastic addition to any Apple ][ system with slots... Floppy Disk, Hard Disk, SSD... What more could you ask for??

MarkO

#55 MarkO OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:52 AM

<< BIG SNIP >>>
 
As a side note / interesting observation - I'm sure I probably could have gotten a much better deal even just a few years ago. Old video games and computers have become more in demand as collectibles as of late with people such as myself getting on the bandwagon thanks to Atari Age, Youtube, etc. I've always had an interest in old computers - especially ones I grew up with - but it has only been recently that I have been obtaining them. Thanks to websites such as Atari and Youtube people have become more interested in these relics. Personally, I started obtaining vintage computers because I'm curious and want to experience these machines I've always heard of but never owned or even experienced. There weren't many kids or adults back in the day who simultaneously owned a Vic-20, C64, Apple II, TI-99, Tandy Color Computer, PC, Atari 800xl, Amiga 1200, and Aquarius at the same time but over the course of the past 3-4 years I've obtained all these (the only yard sale find was the Amiga for 1200, otherwise it would be outside my price range). These days, even though these machines are collectible they still only cost a small fraction of their original price and ordinary middle class folks like myself can get them. The prices have been going up, but the communities supporting these machines has grown and they are more respected for their place in history.


The "opportunists", that want to Cash In are filling eBay with all kinds of Ludicrous Prices...

OTOH, checking with people on Facebook, and AppleFritter and UseNet and here, and there are Machines to be had for reasonable prices...

Check with Garrett at http://www.bithistory.org/. He is always getting Donated Hardware and needing to locate Good Homes for them....

MarkO

#56 MarkO OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:00 PM

I know exactly what you mean. I admittedly don't have nostalgia for any vintage Apple Computer model and can therefore base my decisions soley on capabilities and price. I do have nostalgia for the Tandy Color Computer II but not for the Color Computer III. The II happens to be much less expensive and more common than the III, so in my case nostalgia saved me a lot of money :-)


I am Totally the Opposite.. I have a "deep" Vintage Apple ][ interest, but recently have been getting into the Tandy Color Computer... I got a NIB, CoCo 3 about 5 years ago, with a Platinum //e, that came with Drives and Monitor and Original Software....

I kept the CoCo 3, because it has the Motorola 6809, and I wanted to learn more about it.. Since then I have added Two CoCo 2s, a 4K CoCo 1, two MPIs and a practically new FD-500 Disk Drive.. and a Dragon64 by Tano... The CoCoSDCs for the CoCos are just as incredible as the CFFA3000 for the Apples...


MarkO

#57 MarkO OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:05 PM

Wow, I didn't know you could get a Mockingboard for a IIc. That is the only thing I wish I could have that a IIe would allow.  I will have to get one of these!  That would make programming games so much more fun (assuming the mockingboard is easy to program). 


You merely have to "stuff" some registers with the sounds you want... There are programming examples and People that are working with it today..




MarkO

#58 thorr OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:19 PM

You merely have to "stuff" some registers with the sounds you want... There are programming examples and People that are working with it today..




MarkO

Very cool.  Do you know if this can be done from BASIC? 

Also, I saw that someone wrote a MIDI file to Mockingboard song converter program.  That could be fun to use.

I will seriously consider this for my Christmas present if I get enough Christmas spending money.  I am broke at the moment.



#59 thorr OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:25 PM

A project I'd like to do is an external expansion chassis connected via a single small discrete connector in the back. Similar to a docking station. And you'd have real traditional slots in this box. Off hand I don't see any technical reason this couldn't be possible.

After seeing what they can do from the CPU socket, it seems like this should be possible, and it is an excellent idea!  My Laser 128/EX had a slot connector on the side that was available with an external expansion chassis.  I didn't have the chassis, but I think I was able to put a Computer Eyes 2 into the slot on the side and get it working.  This is from memory.  I also had access to a friend's Apple II+ so I might have had to use that instead with the card. 

 

Another idea I had was to make a board that goes into the CPU socket and then provides a few more CPU sockets (sort of like a splitter) so more than one internal addon could go into the multiple sockets.  I highly doubt this would work though.  Your idea is much better. 



#60 c0op3r OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:04 PM

Major Tom check out the Fb Apple II group also - https://www.facebook...ups/5251478676/



#61 MarkO OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:09 PM

Very cool.  Do you know if this can be done from BASIC?


Yes, both the Mocking Board Disk and the Echo+ Disk ( The Echo+ has Two AY-3-8913s just like the Mocking Board does, but they are addressed differently ) have BASIC programs that BLOAD the Sound Envelops and then setup the AY chips to play the sounds...

 

Also, I saw that someone wrote a MIDI file to Mockingboard song converter program.  That could be fun to use.


Contact Tom Porter on Facebook... He has been doing a lot of Sound stuff and Double LoRes Graphics..
 

I will seriously consider this for my Christmas present if I get enough Christmas spending money.  I am broke at the moment.


I know that feeling.... Lack on Money...

I got an Original Mocking Board a few years ago, but it still cost me a bit.... I had received an Echo + a few years before that..

There are Two or Three Clones available now... One from Korea, One from Japan, and One from Bulgaria, plus there is an AE Phasor Clone in development..

 

Edit:  Oh... In the mean time, get AppleWin..  It has Mocking Board Support...

MarkO


Edited by MarkO, Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:11 PM.


#62 thorr OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:17 PM

Thanks MarkO.  I know about the AppleWin Mocking Board support, and I think that is very cool that it has it, but I sort of feel like that is cheating and if I am going to get a real card, I don't want to spoil the fun by playing with it in the emulator first.  I like the sound of the Mocking Board because it reminds me of the old CMS Game Blaster sound cards from the 286 days.  Here is a video demonstrating it (skip to the half way point to hear it): 

When I was a kid, I was also into programming sound and music on the Apple II and figured out how to produce very nice sounding music with 2 notes playing at the same time by using the Sonata program and replacing the music with my own code.  When it is playing, the computer can't do other things, but it works well for just making and listening to computer music and incorporating it into non-arcade style games.  I also got digital recording and playback working using the borrowed Apple II+ that had a cassette input.  It was very loud and scratchy but it worked.  There have been efforts to improve the digital sound for the Apple II and they really came a long way: http://mirrors.apple...2.shk.info2.txt



#63 Major_Tom_coming_home OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:32 PM

You may already know about this game, but the one everyone remembers from the COCO2 is Dungeons of Daggorath. The gameplay is ancient, the graphics are primitive, and reading directions is mandatory, but in my opinion the atmosphere, minimalism, and sound of Dungeons of Daggorath makes anything from the Resident Evil or Silent Hill series look like a Spongebob Squarepants episodes. 

I am Totally the Opposite.. I have a "deep" Vintage Apple ][ interest, but recently have been getting into the Tandy Color Computer... I got a NIB, CoCo 3 about 5 years ago, with a Platinum //e, that came with Drives and Monitor and Original Software....

I kept the CoCo 3, because it has the Motorola 6809, and I wanted to learn more about it.. Since then I have added Two CoCo 2s, a 4K CoCo 1, two MPIs and a practically new FD-500 Disk Drive.. and a Dragon64 by Tano... The CoCoSDCs for the CoCos are just as incredible as the CFFA3000 for the Apples...


MarkO



#64 Major_Tom_coming_home OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:34 PM

Thanks,

 

Now that I have electricity and internet after Irma passed by I've joined the group ;-)

Major Tom check out the Fb Apple II group also - https://www.facebook...ups/5251478676/



#65 c0op3r OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:27 PM

Thanks,

 

Now that I have electricity and internet after Irma passed by I've joined the group ;-)

I just got power back also, where are you I am in Altamonte Springs, FL



#66 Zap! OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:19 AM

IIGS can be wired to an old Amiga RGB monitor (15Khz).   Personally I use the IIGS RGB output into SCART/xrbg mini for some nice LCD monitor action.

 

I've also got IIc(s), a IIe and a IIe Platinum but the IIGS is my go to system.

 

Can the IIGS hook up via RGB SCART to a Sony PVM?



#67 remowilliams OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:34 PM

Can the IIGS hook up via RGB SCART to a Sony PVM?

 

Provided the PVM does 15Khz RGB (which I would assume it does), I don't see why not.





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