Tidus79001 Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 I just noticed tonight on the back of my Atari 5200 (2 controller port model) what looks to be opening for maybe some sort of expansion port. It didn't seem that it could be easily popped open. Any idea what it is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 It's an expansion port. No peripheral was ever produced or planned for it. Both models had it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0078265317 Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 Yes my 4 port has it also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 Well they did have some things for the 5200 under discussion. It's not known whether they would use the expansion port or not though. Do a search in these forums and they will come up. Two things that were being discussed were a computer keyboard and a musical keyboard. Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynxpro Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 Well they did have some things for the 5200 under discussion. It's not known whether they would use the expansion port or not though. Do a search in these forums and they will come up. Two things that were being discussed were a computer keyboard and a musical keyboard. Allan Curt has said sound expansion as well. Although others have stated the port has too low of a bitrate transmission - similar to the later 7800 Expansion Port - to support anything truly interesting. If there were a way to add 2 more joystick ports to the 2-port models, I'd consider that a win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRTGAMER Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 Well they did have some things for the 5200 under discussion. It's not known whether they would use the expansion port or not though. Do a search in these forums and they will come up. Two things that were being discussed were a computer keyboard and a musical keyboard. Allan This, I remember reading about the computer keyboard attachment. The 5200 is basically an Atari 400/800 8bit computer which makes for easy to implement computer accessories. Console manufactures back then were looking into the keyboard attachments to compete with the emerging affordable home computer (Commodore, Timex Sinclair and Texas Instruments) market. Make the game console viable to influence parents as a home computer, a decision if the accessory worth the additional production and marketing costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 Curt has said sound expansion as well. Although others have stated the port has too low of a bitrate transmission - similar to the later 7800 Expansion Port - to support anything truly interesting. If there were a way to add 2 more joystick ports to the 2-port models, I'd consider that a win. If the expansion port has lines for analog audio and video - as does the 7800 Expansion Interface - then you "bitrate" doesn't come into it at all. You just run the outputs from your expansion device (such as the planned 7800 LD device) through the Expansion Interface inputs on those analog pins, and the host devices passes them through to its own output to the display device (TV, monitor, speakers, whatever). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynxpro Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 If the expansion port has lines for analog audio and video - as does the 7800 Expansion Interface - then you "bitrate" doesn't come into it at all. You just run the outputs from your expansion device (such as the planned 7800 LD device) through the Expansion Interface inputs on those analog pins, and the host devices passes them through to its own output to the display device (TV, monitor, speakers, whatever). It doesn't. The 7800 Expansion Port was designed to control an external VideoDisc/LaserDisc player; the 5200 Expansion Port was not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Whatever it is capable of, I bet the hardware wizards here could come up with some modern goodies. I'm usually ready to pop new stuff that adds new capabilities. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 I think I have answered this a bunch of times before, you can add a tiny RAM window or a dual POKEY input and a floppy drive interface at the same time. Not much else. Well, anything else command driven would work as well, 8bit data bus and a small memory window with R/W access. To burst some peoples bubbles, the POkeyboard is not exposed, only the serial communication. Here is the broken ASCII pinout diagram from the F.A.Q. and a bit of the schematic: 4.7 -- EXPANSION PORT PINOUT ---------------------------- TOP BOTTOM +5V DC 1 36 +5V DC Audio Out 2 35 Not connected (2 port) Ground 3 34 Ground R/W Early 4 33 Not connected Enable E0-EF 5 32 D7 D6 6 31 D5 D4 7 30 D3 D2 8 29 D1 D0 9 28 Ground IRQ 10 27 A0 Ground 11 26 A1 Serial Data In 12 25 A2 In Clock 13 24 A3 Serial Out Clock 14 23 A4 Serial Data Out 15 22 A5 Audio In 16 21 A6 A14 17 20 A7 System Clock 01 18 19 A11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inky Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 (edited) It doesn't. The 7800 Expansion Port was designed to control an external VideoDisc/LaserDisc player; the 5200 Expansion Port was not. I always thought that a bit unusual, as the 7800 was designed with a keyboard in mind. Everyone thought it would go in the expansion interface, when in actuality, it used the controller ports. Edited October 2, 2017 by Inky 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikeguychicago Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Well they did have some things for the 5200 under discussion. It's not known whether they would use the expansion port or not though. Do a search in these forums and they will come up. Two things that were being discussed were a computer keyboard and a musical keyboard. Allan Let's release a music keyboard because the Mattel did it and supported it so well with its single game 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TemplarXB Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 I think I have answered this a bunch of times before, you can add a tiny RAM window or a dual POKEY input and a floppy drive interface at the same time. Not much else. Well, anything else command driven would work as well, 8bit data bus and a small memory window with R/W access. To burst some peoples bubbles, the POkeyboard is not exposed, only the serial communication. Here is the broken ASCII pinout diagram from the F.A.Q. and a bit of the schematic: 4.7 -- EXPANSION PORT PINOUT ---------------------------- TOP BOTTOM +5V DC 1 36 +5V DC Audio Out 2 35 Not connected (2 port) Ground 3 34 Ground R/W Early 4 33 Not connected Enable E0-EF 5 32 D7 D6 6 31 D5 D4 7 30 D3 D2 8 29 D1 D0 9 28 Ground IRQ 10 27 A0 Ground 11 26 A1 Serial Data In 12 25 A2 In Clock 13 24 A3 Serial Out Clock 14 23 A4 Serial Data Out 15 22 A5 Audio In 16 21 A6 A14 17 20 A7 System Clock 01 18 19 A11 Given what we know about the 5200 ports, is it even possible to turn it into a full blown 8-bit computer like the XEGS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroeight Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 Whatever it is capable of, I bet the hardware wizards here could come up with some modern goodies. I'm usually ready to pop new stuff that adds new capabilities. Oh yeah... Let's get the 7800 module done first. That one is taking forever. just saying. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 If the expansion port has lines for analog audio and video - as does the 7800 Expansion Interface - then you "bitrate" doesn't come into it at all. You just run the outputs from your expansion device (such as the planned 7800 LD device) through the Expansion Interface inputs on those analog pins, and the host devices passes them through to its own output to the display device (TV, monitor, speakers, whatever). The expansion port on both models had an audio IN on the exp bus, and on the 2 port both it also had an audio out. The expansion port has 8 Data and address lines, clock, R/W and serial in/out... having a device or adapter with a PIA in it, you could get a full blown SIO port out of the exp port and pass thru the data and address lines for external ROMs and possibly RAM, High score keeper, and so forth. Most likely any kind of keyboard would've simply plugged into 2 of the front controller jacks and achieved a keyboard interface through that method, doubtful it would've gone through the Expansion port. http://www.atarihq.com/5200/5200faq/04_07.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroeight Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Does anyone know how "serious" Atari was about doing a keyboard for the 5200? Just makes perfect sense. lloyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRTGAMER Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Does anyone know how "serious" Atari was about doing a keyboard for the 5200? Just makes perfect sense. lloyd I have an Atari 800 number pad that plugs into the joyport. Based on the quotes below, a keyboard could have been added to the 5200, communicating thru just the joyport. Some of the consoles back then had a keyboard planned to upgrade to a basic computer using each consoles various inputs and hidden expansion connector. http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/consoles/5200/a5200.html Talk of a computer keyboard for the Atari 5200 was mentioned, but due to a conflict with Atari's Home Computer Division, the Atari 5200 keyboard was cancelled. The Atari 5200 had a hard time of it, still the system had a very nice sized library of games coming out for it, and outsold its new competitor - the Colecovision. However Great Videogame Crash did in the Atari 5200 before it even had a chance to reach its full potential... besides, Atari had a trump card up its sleeve to fix the Atari 5200 problem... The Atari 7800. http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/consoles/7800/7800keyboard.html The Atari 7800 PRO System keyboard would be Atari's second attempt at adding computer functionality to one of its gaming consoles. The first attempt was the Atari Graduate keyboard for the Atari 2600 designed by Peripheral Visions, Inc. The Atari 7800 keyboard plugs into joystick port #2 and using an accompanying cartridge would turn the Atari 7800 PRO System into a full blown computer system capable of using the current line of Atari 400/800 and XL computer peripherals. (It should be noted, since the hardware of the 7800 was quite different compared to the hardware of the Atari computer line, the existing software would not be compatible). The keyboard is a remarkably elegant piece of hardware in both its design and function. Atari 7800 keyboard has several connection ports on the back of the keyboard allowing it to use standard Atari SIO devices and also use off the shelf generic cassette data recorders for loading and storing data. The keyboard is made up of various simple electrical components such as a PIC controller, 2 EPROM's and some basic support circuitry as well as also utilizing a standard 600/800XL keyboard. (The keycaps are merely changed for cosmetic effect, but a quick test of swapping keyboards shows that the XL line keyboard plugs in and works fine.) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkeagood Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 it would be cool if someone made a use for that expansion part 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDTV1080P Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 (edited) On 5/19/2018 at 1:45 PM, Arkeagood said: it would be cool if someone made a use for that expansion part If it was technically possible the best use for the ATARI 5200 expansion port would be to add a graphics card with a HDMI output. The expansion card would disable the onboard ATARI 5200 display processor and turn on the new video display processor in the graphics card that offers HDMI output for modern displays. A new high-end regulated third party power supply would power the ATARI 5200 console and external HDMI graphics card. Edited July 25, 2020 by HDTV1080P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 8 hours ago, HDTV1080P said: If it was technically possible the best use for the ATARI 5200 expansion port would be to add a graphics card with a HDMI output. The expansion card would disable the onboard ATARI 5200 display processor and turn on the new video display processor in the graphics card that offers HDMI output for modern displays. A new high-end regulated third party power supply would power the ATARI 5200 console and external HDMI graphics card. Yeah, none of that is possible with the signals available on the expansion connector. Further, the “display processor” in the 5200 (and A8 computers) is the combination of the ANTIC and GTIA chips. Every piece of existing software ever written for the platform uses ANTIC to setup a display list of screen resolution segments to arrange on the screen vertically, and GTIA to generate the (analog) television display signal. There are modern replacements for ANTIC (the VBXE board) and GTIA (the SOPHIA), but installing them is a hardware modification, not something that can simply be plugged into an edge connector. In fact, here are the signals available on that connector, straight from the 5200 Field Service Manual. As you can see, there are some signals there connected to POKEY, all 8 Data lines but only a subset of Address lines. I don’t know exactly why Atari would have limited the number of Address lines, but they did. In any case, if you understand how the A8 machines work, if anything, Atari likely considered some kind of disk or tape-based interface to load games there (hence the clock lines, the Audio In line, and the Data In and Data Out lines to POKEY). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 Best use of the expansion port, is the cover being used to mount new AV jacks onto for video upgrades... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClausB Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 (edited) They limited the number of address lines because it's intended for I/O expansion. That CSO signal is active for the $Exxx range and you combine it with A11 to narrow that to $E000-$E7FF to avoid conflict with POKEY. A0-A7 give you a 256-byte window in that range, enough for I/O. You could add a PIA for standard joysticks, or a second POKEY, or a bank switched RAM, or a SIO port. http://atarihq.com/danb/files/52analog.pdf Fun fact: between the expansion port and the cartridge port, the entire 64K address space is available. A15 is not there but you can generate that from other signals. Edited July 27, 2020 by ClausB 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 5 hours ago, ClausB said: You could add a PIA for standard joysticks, or a second POKEY, or a bank switched RAM, or a SIO port. I figured the "immediately obvious" one was an SIO port and disk or tape-based games - the Data In and Out plus the Clock lines all run straight to the existing internal POKEY. The address thing had me befuddled though but quite obviously I'm not an any kind of expert on the 5200 or A8 memory maps and how all the specific I/O chips are mapped into the 64K 16-bit address space. But having read your explanation, that sounds cool. So obviously someone needs to djin up a 5200XM that adds a couple megs of bankswitched RAM, a second POKEY or FPGA clone, a PIA for digital I/O, and that SIO port. If that happens I'll gladly re-arrange my AV mod connectors. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, DrVenkman said: If that happens I'll gladly re-arrange my AV mod connectors. ? In my case I would have to rearrange the DC power jack I installed. On my personal 5200, all the AV connections are around the channel select switch (PITA and I don't plan to do that again), while I decided to put the new DC jack for the power conversion on its own on the expansion plate. But just having a dual pokey with some extra ram would allow for some interesting programs on the 5200! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClausB Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 I once suggested adding SIO but was met with disinterest: Seems 5200 collectors want the 8-bits' games but not their peripherals. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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