Jump to content

Photo

Is the 8 bit uninspiring?


280 replies to this topic

#1 emkay OFFLINE  

emkay

    Quadrunner

  • 8,716 posts
  • What's up?
  • Location:Holy Grail ;)

Posted Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:36 AM

Watching this demo from the 2600 system, made me asking myself, how could it be , that a demo is more impressive than most 8bit demos?




#2 ProWizard OFFLINE  

ProWizard

    River Patroller

  • 4,486 posts
  • Into Stampede
  • Location:In the cattle!

Posted Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:44 AM

Lol this is going to be the next flamewar topic.

The 2600 demo is great yes. Especially when you look at the specs of the hardware. But come on.... The library of a8 demos is stunning. I know hundreds of great demos and intros.

#3 Lord Thag OFFLINE  

Lord Thag

    River Patroller

  • 3,154 posts
  • We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese
  • Location:The Land that Time Forgot

Posted Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:49 AM

Yeah, I've seen plenty of 8-bit demos that put this to shame. Great effort on the VCS though!



#4 Level42 ONLINE  

Level42

    Stargunner

  • 1,166 posts
  • Location:Ridderkerk, The Netherlands

Posted Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:53 AM



So ........make something better .... :D

Edited by Level42, Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:54 AM.


#5 ProWizard OFFLINE  

ProWizard

    River Patroller

  • 4,486 posts
  • Into Stampede
  • Location:In the cattle!

Posted Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:54 AM

In a split second I think of:

Boogie nights
Joyride
Silly venture invitro 2013
Raster girls Beer atari (can not recall exact title)
Sweet Illusions
Overmind
Tripple threat
Bobsland
Dwade
Reditus
Numen
HTT little color demo
Near
Gene
Cyber punk
C-drug
Silly things

And much much more. I seriously find a lot of these demos very great. Don't see the 2600 do that and most ideas are original too.

#6 Bryan OFFLINE  

Bryan

    Quadrunner

  • 10,617 posts
  • Cruise Elroy = 4DB7
  • Location:Chesaning, MI

Posted Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:56 AM

That's a pretty amazing 2600 demo, but two things come to mind:

 

1. Size of the community. The number of eyes on your system definitely affects the amount of stuff written for it. I think the C64 gets 10 demos for every one written on the A8.

 

2. Focus on what your hardware is good at. So many A8 demos try to do some rendition of things being done elsewhere. The best demos exploit some feature of the hardware to show something that defies expectations and would normally require a lot more resources.



#7 emkay OFFLINE  

emkay

    Quadrunner

  • Topic Starter
  • 8,716 posts
  • What's up?
  • Location:Holy Grail ;)

Posted Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:11 PM

In a split second I think of:


Not much yet, but let's go to some details

Boogie nights


Nice graphics, superb fx, but the tune fits in no way.

Joyride


Great for the age, cool Trackloader, but no floating in the demo, tunes were partial out of tune.

Silly venture invitro 2013


What exactly do you like in there?

Raster girls Beer atari (can not recall exact title)


OKish

Sweet Illusions


OK for the age...

Overmind


Very good demo. Great for the age...

Tripple threat


Marvelous graphics and FX, also good transitions

Bobsland

erm... no ?

Dwade


? never heared of

Reditus


Great 3D ... the tune destroys it all.

Numen

Ofcourse great, the tunes were at least "originals"

HTT little color demo


hmm..

Near


Ofcourse very very very great graphics and FX.

Gene


Marvellous gfx and fx, but a very good example of what is "no music" , while that little 2600 demo blows all of those demo tunes of the A8 ...

Cyber punk


Could be outrageous, if the music wasn't destroying it all.

C-drug


Some inspired stuff ;)

Silly things


Also some exceptional stuff.



And much much more. I seriously find a lot of these demos very great. Don't see the 2600 do that and most ideas are original too.


But it's all beaten by inspiration of a graphical "show" and really fitting music, even by the mimimalistic limits of that machine.

Show me ONE demo where the graphics and sound fit together on the A8.

#8 emkay OFFLINE  

emkay

    Quadrunner

  • Topic Starter
  • 8,716 posts
  • What's up?
  • Location:Holy Grail ;)

Posted Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:35 PM

The most "inspired" demos , I find in

Arsantica
Arsantica 2
Arsantica 3



In that order ;)

#9 ZylonBane OFFLINE  

ZylonBane

    River Patroller

  • 3,892 posts
  • Location:KC, KS, USA

Posted Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:47 PM

2. Focus on what your hardware is good at. So many A8 demos try to do some rendition of things being done elsewhere. The best demos exploit some feature of the hardware to show something that defies expectations and would normally require a lot more resources.

 

The Chiphead demo in the first post is actually a demake of Ziphead.



#10 emkay OFFLINE  

emkay

    Quadrunner

  • Topic Starter
  • 8,716 posts
  • What's up?
  • Location:Holy Grail ;)

Posted Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:52 PM

The Chiphead demo in the first post is actually a demake of Ziphead.


Even more impressive... what they transported to the small 2600 !

#11 MrFish OFFLINE  

MrFish

    River Patroller

  • 4,088 posts
  • Location:1010-1010

Posted Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:10 PM

What's uninspiring is to hear you rag on A8 coders constantly.



#12 MrFish OFFLINE  

MrFish

    River Patroller

  • 4,088 posts
  • Location:1010-1010

Posted Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:11 PM

Watching this demo from the 2600 system, made me asking myself, how could it be , that a demo is more impressive than most 8bit demos?

 

bologna.jpg

 

Well, maybe you should move over to the 2600 camp for a few years then, eh?

 



#13 kiwilove OFFLINE  

kiwilove

    Dragonstomper

  • 712 posts
  • Location:Dunedin, New Zealand

Posted Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:28 PM

It was a good demo for the 2600 - but it could be better...

4-bit? blocky graphics are hard to work with - but there could be some nice effects possible even with this limitation.

 

I do have in mind a few ideas for a Never the Same Demo Twice - kind of demo but don't know of a coder willing to work on one?

I like to parody some classic 8-bit games in the process - but think it's a lot of work to bring it to completion.

(A hint of this was in AtariBlast!)

 

Also I've been working on some text material - that could be used in some demo.  It's about fundamental truth(s) in the universe that ought to be in the public domain - but isn't.  ie. present in popular songs and present in our storytelling...  Shakespeare should have covered most of it - though I'm not versed in what Shakespeare wrote, etc.  It's actually not a very long message in it's short version.

 

Harvey



#14 Wrathchild ONLINE  

Wrathchild

    Stargunner

  • 1,853 posts
  • Location:Reading, UK.

Posted Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:40 PM

The day the A8 stops inspiring me will be a sad day indeed!

 

Shanti77's Bosconian is a great showcase of what can be done well.
slx has been inspired to give us more fun from Shamus.
Those new bits of hardware being worked upon and those already out.

 

By "inspiring" did you mean to existing fans? consumers? or what I'd like to think it pointed to...

That is, something that should inspire outside developers to take a peek at what is being done and make them want to hop on-board.

For example, any talented indie house teams that have just happen (but very unlikely) to have a bit of spare time to see what they can make this platform do!



#15 wood_jl OFFLINE  

wood_jl

    Quadrunner

  • 6,800 posts
  • Location:West TN, USA

Posted Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:44 PM

Impressive 2600 demo!   Better than A-8 computer?  Says who????



#16 Stephen OFFLINE  

Stephen

    Quadrunner

  • 6,390 posts
  • A8 Gear Head
  • Location:Akron, Ohio

Posted Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:24 PM

 

attachicon.gifbologna.jpg

 

Well, maybe you should move over to the 2600 camp for a few years then, eh?

 

Yeah - go over to the 2600 forum for a few years and keep telling them how out of tune TIA is.  Perhaps that's why you are so tone deaf (Shitty Flute tone deaf levels here).  You love the TIA so much that you think PoKey's enhanced resolution is out of key.



#17 Stephen OFFLINE  

Stephen

    Quadrunner

  • 6,390 posts
  • A8 Gear Head
  • Location:Akron, Ohio

Posted Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:27 PM

The day the A8 stops inspiring me will be a sad day indeed!

 

Shanti77's Bosconian is a great showcase of what can be done well.
slx has been inspired to give us more fun from Shamus.
Those new bits of hardware being worked upon and those already out.

 

By "inspiring" did you mean to existing fans? consumers? or what I'd like to think it pointed to...

That is, something that should inspire outside developers to take a peek at what is being done and make them want to hop on-board.

For example, any talented indie house teams that have just happen (but very unlikely) to have a bit of spare time to see what they can make this platform do!

Well, when Bosconian comes out, he'll bitch about the title music being out of tune, not SID like.  Perhaps we could have used Graphics 7 or narrow mode for more cycles.  Always offering up what could have, should have been done.  NEVER once offering up anything he does.

 

I weld, I work on cars.  I am not great at it, but I am better than many.  I won't take people talking shit about my work if they don't do it themselves.  Same with the code I write everyday to pay for a house.  I think he really should think his position and STOP incessantly putting down other work, while contributing nothing but out of tune, out of key ear raping rip offs of other people's stuff.



#18 mytekcontrols OFFLINE  

mytekcontrols

    River Patroller

  • 2,011 posts
  • Location:Santa Rosa, CA

Posted Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:34 PM

Well, when Bosconian comes out, he'll bitch about the title music being out of tune, not SID like.  Perhaps we could have used Graphics 7 or narrow mode for more cycles.  Always offering up what could have, should have been done.  NEVER once offering up anything he does.

 

I weld, I work on cars.  I am not great at it, but I am better than many.  I won't take people talking shit about my work if they don't do it themselves.  Same with the code I write everyday to pay for a house.  I think he really should think his position and STOP incessantly putting down other work, while contributing nothing but out of tune, out of key ear raping rip offs of other people's stuff.

 

:)

 

- Michael



#19 ZylonBane OFFLINE  

ZylonBane

    River Patroller

  • 3,892 posts
  • Location:KC, KS, USA

Posted Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:54 PM

Impressive 2600 demo!   Better than A-8 computer?  Says who????

 
Our resident crazy person.
 
Well... one of our resident crazy people.



#20 emkay OFFLINE  

emkay

    Quadrunner

  • Topic Starter
  • 8,716 posts
  • What's up?
  • Location:Holy Grail ;)

Posted Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:31 AM

I weld, I work on cars.  I am not great at it, but I am better than many.  I won't take people talking shit about my work if they don't do it themselves.  Same with the code I write everyday to pay for a house.  I think he really should think his position and STOP incessantly putting down other work, while contributing nothing but out of tune, out of key ear raping rip offs of other people's stuff.


You know the difference between action and reaction? Then you may get the point ;)

#21 emkay OFFLINE  

emkay

    Quadrunner

  • Topic Starter
  • 8,716 posts
  • What's up?
  • Location:Holy Grail ;)

Posted Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:00 AM

The day the A8 stops inspiring me will be a sad day indeed!


Depends on what it inspires you. Your game conversion look always great, indeed.

Shanti77's Bosconian is a great showcase of what can be done well.
slx has been inspired to give us more fun from Shamus.


Both game adaptions.

Those new bits of hardware being worked upon and those already out.


What hardware exactly. If you see it from a neutral point, CPU , graphics , or sound upgrades define the A8 as something that has to be replaced.
RAM & ROM extensions, HDD Interfaces were great stuff.

By "inspiring" did you mean to existing fans? consumers? or what I'd like to think it pointed to...
That is, something that should inspire outside developers to take a peek at what is being done and make them want to hop on-board.
For example, any talented indie house teams that have just happen (but very unlikely) to have a bit of spare time to see what they can make this platform do!


If you have a look at the 2600 demo, it transports the "original demo" to the low specs of the 2600.

It's like you're playing a game. The game may look and sound worse, but the gameplay is kept very well. Moon Patrol for example.

Similar to demos.

Hm.... thinking of it, CONTROL is one Demo that keeps the original best on the A8...



Using the A8's features to show what it can do, is nice. To show what it could be, was even nicer.

#22 ProWizard OFFLINE  

ProWizard

    River Patroller

  • 4,486 posts
  • Into Stampede
  • Location:In the cattle!

Posted Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:15 AM

Watching this demo from the 2600 system, made me asking myself, how could it be , that a demo is more impressive than most 8bit demos?

 

Today I reconsidered my answer. I think the problem with your question is, that you state it as a fact. You write: How could it be, that a demo IS more impressive....

 

There is something wrong with that question. In my opinion you should have asked: How could it be, that I find this/a demo more impressive.

 

Then it is all about opinion, and thousands answers are possible.

 

One of those answers can be: since you are aware of the limitations of the 2600, and the lack of many demos ( I know there are more demos) it gives you probably the WOW effect. 

 

I found the 2600 demo you posted nice, and great to see on 2600, but that was that. I wouldn't trade my a8 demo collection for that. See: it is a matter of opinion.

 

OH and that dwade demo I wrote about is actually called 2de ... I love it. The music and especially the first part of the demo: 



#23 ZylonBane OFFLINE  

ZylonBane

    River Patroller

  • 3,892 posts
  • Location:KC, KS, USA

Posted Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:00 AM



Hm.... thinking of it, CONTROL is one Demo that keeps the original best on the A8...

 

Control is a straight remake of an Amiga demo.

 

And GTIA 3D polygons are my least-favorite things in Atari demos. They're always slow and blocky.



#24 emkay OFFLINE  

emkay

    Quadrunner

  • Topic Starter
  • 8,716 posts
  • What's up?
  • Location:Holy Grail ;)

Posted Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:49 AM

There is something wrong with that question. In my opinion you should have asked: How could it be, that I find this/a demo more impressive.
 
Then it is all about opinion, and thousands answers are possible.


So it's my opinion when suggesting to put a steering wheel into a car for better controls, and while adding that , the car should move to the left, when steering to the left , steering to the right should also do the expected. ? Brakes should work properly aswell.

Actually, I'd still propose that, because other people usually expect it that way.
 

OH and that dwade demo I wrote about is actually called 2de ...


OK. Tnx

Edited by emkay, Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:52 AM.


#25 emkay OFFLINE  

emkay

    Quadrunner

  • Topic Starter
  • 8,716 posts
  • What's up?
  • Location:Holy Grail ;)

Posted Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:56 AM

Control is a straight remake of an Amiga demo.


Greetings to the enlightened ;)

And GTIA 3D polygons are my least-favorite things in Atari demos. They're always slow and blocky.


That'S also a part of the Thread. Having the "3D calculations" is just some programmer's pr0n . Doing the stuff with some added shortcuts, to have it more fluent, would be inspired ;)




0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users