warpman Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 Howdy tschak909. Your choices I've never seen or heard of before. Looks like Smalltalk-80 ran on the Mac OS as well. Do you have a picture of the "Xerox Alto"??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE146 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 People diss Windows 8.1 but in my opinion it's the best Windows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpman Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 "Keatah".. I use Windows 3.x to play games and serial xfer (using DOS) of files to a TI-99'4a. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 People diss Windows 8.1 but in my opinion it's the best Windows. It's lightweight, compatible, and touch friendly. There was a neat little wave of bargain-priced devices that could run it. We don't see that anymore, but I hope they come back. The Metro interface felt bolted-on but if you took the time to set it up (about equal hassle to customizing an Android launcher), it was nice to have. Edit: I see that I already said almost exactly the same thing, exactly one month ago. Yeesh. Hooray for dementia. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE146 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 I honestly have absolutely ZERO clue about the metro interface,.. I know it's there, but when I look at it I can't understand how you can find anything! Doesn't matter anyway.. it remains unused. The only time you see it is if you press the windows key to type a search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tschak909 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 (edited) Howdy tschak909. Your choices I've never seen or heard of before. Looks like Smalltalk-80 ran on the Mac OS as well. Do you have a picture of the "Xerox Alto"??? The Xerox Alto was an experimental workstation that Xerox PARC produced from 1973 until 1981. From 1976 until 1980, a second revision of it was produced for outward consumption by a few universities and institutions (the Carter White House had one.), and it ran a variety of different software, including SmallTalk. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Alto SmallTalk lives on in a variety of implementations, the current best implementations being Squeak (http://www.squeak.org/) and Pharo (http://www.pharo.org/), they are both freely downloadable, and like SmallTalk on the Alto, are completely self sufficient and self contained worlds. Do I still use Smalltalk? Yes. It is fantastic for quickly prototyping ideas. (My other favorite languages are as equally powerful as they are esoteric: Erlang, Haskell, and FORTH.) -Thom Edited October 19, 2017 by tschak909 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 I dig that portrait orientation. Very Vectrex. Xerox Alto is also known as the GUI whose ideas stolen/adapted/co-opted by Apple to build the Macintosh. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 Xerox Alto is also known as the GUI whose ideas stolen/adapted/co-opted by Apple to build the Macintosh. I always thought it was ballsy for Apple to sue Microsoft over the GUI, considering Microsoft just did what Apple had already done. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tschak909 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 I dig that portrait orientation. Very Vectrex. Xerox Alto is also known as the GUI whose ideas stolen/adapted/co-opted by Apple to build the Macintosh. Yeah, but not as much as one would think... The Alto did not have a native GUI. It had bit blit and drawing primitives in microcode that could be used to draw user interfaces. Nobody in the mid 1970s, even at PARC, knew how graphical user interfaces would work, and so each program did their own thing: Neptune (the file manager) was a two paned affair similar to Norton Commander, Bravo was entirely text based, but could split fixed sections of the screen (while being able to render fonts), and Smalltalk was the most ambitious of the lot by using floating menus, a click/move/click to assign method of window creation, a combination editor/viewer (Browser) which used miller columns to drill down into the running system, etc. None of this showed up in Apple's Lisa (or Macintosh) Even the Dandelion based 8010 Star was radically different (The Star had an unbelievably modeless and consistent interface that was spread across the mouse and the keyboard, quite brilliant). Apple's team radically redesigned a paradigm around a single button mouse (and in the process had to collapse various modeless idioms into other gestures, dragging, etc.) Now, I'm not kissing Apple's ass (trust me, I hate that company for many of the things it has done over the last few decades), just trying to call truth here, because I've used these machines, and know the history. -Thom 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMaddog Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 My favorite OS's... 1.) GEM/TOS from Atari ST: Simple, efficent and highly customizeable. Wished I could had used multitasking versions that came out later... 2.) Windows 98SE: Great for eariler PC gaming, from DOS to Direct3D 8 titles. 3.) Ubuntu: Best Linux distro I've used, loved the 3D desktop cube! Was great till the GNOME 3 & Unity debacles, then had to switch to Linux Mint. 4.) Windows 7: Most stable version of Windows I've used, best for modern PC gaming. 5.) Windows 10: Very productive to use, nice having mobile style apps on the same desktop as PC applications. Also Xbox intergration goes well along side existing Steam games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 It's lightweight, compatible, and touch friendly. There was a neat little wave of bargain-priced devices that could run it. We don't see that anymore, but I hope they come back. The Metro interface felt bolted-on but if you took the time to set it up (about equal hassle to customizing an Android launcher), it was nice to have. Touch-friendly, desktop hostile. That's the problem. MS's idea that every device must have the same user interface even when they're used radically differently. That's a hold-over from 90s thinking when people learned Windows and would feel lost with a Mac. Today's consumers are much more tech-savvy and can much more easily move from Windows to iOS to Android and back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 (edited) Today's consumers are much more tech-savvy and can much more easily move from Windows to iOS to Android and back. I think today's consumers are just as idiotic as ever. The OS styles have started becoming more like each other than anyone recognizes. There's more and more common symbols in use today, there's standard procedures for connecting to a wi-fi and charging your battery. There's things like USB, and things are supposed to plug into USB, people know that. Today's operating systems are making idiots and incompetents look good. And switching between them is mere child's play. Edited November 20, 2017 by Keatah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 I think today's consumers are just as idiotic as ever. The OS styles have started becoming more like each other than anyone recognizes. There's more and more common symbols in use today, there's standard procedures for connecting to a wi-fi and charging your battery. There's things like USB, and things are supposed to plug into USB, people know that. Today's operating systems are making idiots and incompetents look good. And switching between them is mere child's play. maybe, but I don't come across the types of people who are completely inept at using a UI like I used to the 90s. As simple as we think the GUI is, I used to have people asking me to give exact step-by-step instructions on how to achieve anything on a Windows machine, and that is frustrating to do in a visual environment. Nowadays people seem to find UIs intuitive. Nor do I see the fear/reluctance to even try to use another platform besides Windows 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 I think you two are saying the same thing ... modern OS are easier to use and are much more "dummy proof" than ever before, and there's not that much difference between them nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 (edited) I don't see as much fanboyism as I do, "Let's go with the one that works with the least hassles." As far as idiocy goes, I still get asked how to drag'n'drop copy files. Or if something with USB locks up, to restart the PC. Edited November 20, 2017 by Keatah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Yeah, I perceive that as well. Many things interoperate fairly decently nowadays. I really like that Microsoft seems to have embraced reality, that not everybody wants an all-Windows ecosystem. I was at one of their retail stores yesterday and got a demo of their smart speaker (think Amazon Echo but with Cortana instead of Alexa). They prominently featured an iPhone instead of a Windows phone, which instantly made it seem like less of a fantasy. Movies Anywhere is probably just a cushion on the floor of DRM hell, but I like the way it lets purchases be viewed in other stores. There are plenty of places where Amazon, Microsoft, Google, and Apple just won't cede ground -- music streaming and the aforementioned smart speakers stand out. They'd be much better products if they weren't on their own islands. "As far as idiocy goes," you should find new friends. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 I think you two are saying the same thing ... modern OS are easier to use and are much more "dummy proof" than ever before, and there's not that much difference between them nowadays. yes they are dummy proof, but so was Win95 for the types of everyday tasks I used to have to help stumped users with. I'm not talking editing some obscure registry keys. It was more how to run applications- they kind of things that GUIs are supposed to make intuitive wasn't very intuitive for some people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTIGuy Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 *6 year-old me: DAD, just type WIN!* 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Win for Windows! That's right..! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Given that most sane apps on all major OSes are a fusion of the classic Mac user experience with IBM's CUA... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tschak909 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 *chuckle* CUA.. I hadn't read the CUA "manual" in almost 25 years. It was IBM's attempt to bring GUI ideas to character displays. -Thom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujidude Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Windows 98SE easily. I cut my teeth on that OS when it came to Windows and PC gaming, I'm very fond of that entire era really. XP is solid as well. We had a little nickname for that one in tech circles: Windows 98 Sh*tty Edition. Far more problems than straight 98 and way more than an OS should have. Windows 98 was decent though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 That's the one that had USB support and all the security patches, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 We had a little nickname for that one in tech circles: Windows 98 Sh*tty Edition. Far more problems than straight 98 and way more than an OS should have. Windows 98 was decent though. Really? I always thought that 98SE was the "good one". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujidude Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 On the 8-bit machines: SpartaDOS Historic milestone OSs on x86: DOS 5 It was a big leap from DOS 3 that I first learned. Windows 3.1 and in particular Windows for Workgroups 3.11 - It brought (pseudo) multitasking, integraded network functionality. Windows previous to 3.1 just wasn't quite up to my standards. Windows 95 and especially the OSR2 flavor - This was even more 32-bit friendly than win32s bolt on for 3.11 was. And it got a new fresh UI look too. Windows NT 4 - NT... a Windows actually somewhat suited for use by larger organizations. Windows 2000 - The welcome and IMHO overdue convergence of the consumer and NT versions of Windows. Windows 7 - Perhaps the best version they have ever made thus far. I say perhaps because I'm not convinced 8.x and 10 (and to me 10 is really just 8.2 anyway or 9 at the most). Linux kernel 2.6 - I feel this is the kernel where a lot of important improvements were made. Modern PCs: Windows 7 Mac OSX Linux - Some Unix snobs like to denigrate Linux as some kind of a unsophisticated hillbilly cousin twice removed, but us Linux users know better. My current favorite is Linux Mint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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