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Pitfall! is 114K possible without using underground?


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#1 mika OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:42 AM

without using underground 106,000 is possible by running left (hit few logs on the way, but then I am not the most skilled). Got to screen 37, next gold bar is on screen 29, so I assume someone with better skills than me could make it to 110,000, but do you think assuming perfect skills 114,000 would be possible without underground? Has someone ever attempted computer assisted run to prove it either way?

 

Pitfall! (1982) (Activision)_3.png

 

by the way, that's my personal best :D - first time I ever got over 100K. It's manic! I love Pitfall!, there are games within games when you set yourself those specific goals. I will now need to attempt 114K using underground. Anyone still plays Pitfall!?


Edited by mika, Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:43 AM.


#2 Cafeman OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:19 AM

Trying to achieve 114,000 on Pitfall does make it a different game, more complex and nuanced, than just playing blindly and for fun.

My opinion is that 114k is impossible without running underground. I've hit 114k without losing any lives, what an exhilarating achievement for me! But it wasn't easy to not run out of time even taking shortcuts; I don't believe there is enough time to hit all treasures by staying above ground. You bypass so many screens via one or two shortcuts.

Congrats on your new best score!

#3 Video OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:11 PM

I think how its designed you can't get to all the over world without hitting up the underworld. I think of it this way, over world is N/S and underworld is E/W. Not quiet right but to get all the over world I'm pretty sure you got to get the tunnels.

#4 CapitanClassic OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:18 PM

It looks to me as if it takes approximately 5 seconds to go from one side of the screen to another. There are 255 screens. If you didn't slow down at all to make a tar pit, or jump a croc, it would take approximately 21 minutes and 15 seconds.

I did not do a detailed frame by frame analysis though, so I don't know if it was 5 seconds, or 4.x seconds. If it only takes 4.8 seconds to clear a screen, that would put you slightly above 20 minutes.

Anyone want to examine the number of frames it takes to clear a screen? My guess from my limited analysis is no, it isn't possible.

Edited by CapitanClassic, Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:21 PM.


#5 Cafeman OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:35 AM

How much time do you save when running left and dying instead of waiting for a pit to close, I wonder. You could spend 2 lives to do this. Does the timer stop as the death music plays and the next Harry drops onto left-screen Though? I doubt you would save more than a few seconds and not enough to grab those final 2 or 3 treasures before time runs out.

#6 mika OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:23 AM

How much time do you save when running left and dying instead of waiting for a pit to close, I wonder. You could spend 2 lives to do this. Does the timer stop as the death music plays and the next Harry drops onto left-screen Though? I doubt you would save more than a few seconds and not enough to grab those final 2 or 3 treasures before time runs out.

 

yes, the timer stops as the death music plays. There is a bit of time saving, but as you said you can only do it twice - suppose the most time efficient way would be on the screen with snake or fire.

 

I am confident that reaching 110K is doable without underground, I only got 8 screens short and being unfamiliar with the layouts and bit more careful at the end when I already lost two lives, I kept losing time waiting when I could just, but only just, go for it. Also, on few occasions I stopped for alligators when I definitely didn't have to. I am not sure whether 114K is possible this way, but then I somehow think that David Crane was/is the type of creator that would allow for it in a pixel perfect run, or maybe tease by letting you come one pixel away from reaching that goal.

 

But then it's maybe just my fantasy and I need to grow up.



#7 Nukey Shay OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:02 PM

Crane has said that it's not possible to cross all screens in a game (i.e. the underground must be used).  A "pixel perfect" run is n/a since it takes slightly longer to cross a screen than a vine, croc jaws, or disappearing pit to cycle...you will lose time waiting for the next pass whenever you encounter a group of such screens (4 or more in a row, IIRC).



#8 mika OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:16 PM

Crane has said that it's not possible to cross all screens in a game (i.e. the underground must be used).  A "pixel perfect" run is n/a since it takes slightly longer to cross a screen than a vine, croc jaws, or disappearing pit to cycle...you will lose time waiting for the next pass whenever you encounter a group of such screens (4 or more in a row, IIRC).

 

sorry, I wasn't clear - when I used a phrase 'pixel perfect' I meant jumping/crossing at the optimal possible moment. There are scenes when you don't have a choice but to wait. But, as discussed elsewhere on the forums you can jump into pits while they are still open if you time it right. You can run over when they are closed, and knowing they will open soon 'jump out' before they open below you. Some vines that appear already too far can still be caught. Of course, 'ideal' run would be extremely unlikely to be achieved by even most skilled player.

 

It's all very theoretical, I thought it's impossible (and yes, I've heard that David Crane said that) until I got the score above. Bar few log hits it shows that 106K is possible, and it's only then when I started thinking.

 

There is a huge amount of screens where you don't really have to stop - I memorized number of stages by repetition, and got really good time for 1/3rd of the run, but I kept losing lot of time on the later scenes because I wasn't familiar with them, or because my memory failed me.



#9 Nukey Shay OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:43 AM

My response was more directed at CaptianClassic's method of finding the maximum number of screens passable within 20 minutes.  Without digging much deeper, I think that the estimate would be closer if you took the highest amount of time (known) left over by the most skilled player after collecting all treasures, dividing the leftover time by how long it takes to cross a single screen, then dividing that figure by 3.  That would provide the maximum number of underground path screens you could skip using the above ground path instead.  What's the highest score (i.e. the most time left) in this game?



#10 Cafeman OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:38 AM

I've seen finished games with 50 seconds left on the timer. It was in one of the HSCs we did. And it was stated he bounced off a vine so 53 or 54 is doable.

#11 Tempest OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:24 AM

What's Todd Rogers high score on this?  That should be an indicator of what the top score is.



#12 mika OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:52 AM

What's Todd Rogers high score on this?  That should be an indicator of what the top score is.

 

I guess it took him about 5 seconds to collect all treasures. It may have been the coffee stain though, so let's say 6 seconds.



#13 Cafeman OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:56 AM

I guess it took him about 5 seconds to collect all treasures. It may have been the coffee stain though, so let's say 6 seconds.


Ouch! :)

#14 mika OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:02 AM

no, sorry - I shouldn't be trolling in my own topic.

 

I think I will attempt a run with save states in Stella, and see what's possible. Was sort of hoping that someone already done an actual computer assisted run, so I don't have to spend days doing it the complicated way :D



#15 Tempest OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:46 AM

no, sorry - I shouldn't be trolling in my own topic.

 

I was actually going to make a joke like that, but I was also serious in that I'm curious as to what his record was.



#16 Cafeman OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:04 PM

On April 24, 2006, Rodrigo Lopes, one of the world reknowned members of Brazil's \"Metroid Team\" and a fellow Twin Galaxies referee, adds another major console record to his belt by completing the legendary Atari 2600 classic title with 114,000 points and 1:06 remaining on the clock on his first life, beating the previous world record set by Todd Rogers (\"Mr Activision\") of 1:01 remaining.

http://www.twingalax...p/t-116174.html
  • jhd likes this

#17 Tempest OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:26 PM

Well there you go. :)



#18 Nukey Shay OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:51 PM

It takes exactly 282 frames (minimum) to cross each screen...4.7 seconds.  66 seconds remaining on the high score makes 14 screens, so you could skip 4 underground screens from the optimal route to still be able to collect all treasures (possibly a couple more underground screens if the ones skipped involved doubling-back).  So no, it is not possible to do the entire game above ground to get all the treasure.

 

BTW 20 minutes / 4.7 seconds = 255...so visiting every screen would only be possible if there were no obstacles whatsoever.


Edited by Nukey Shay, Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:54 PM.


#19 mika OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:18 PM

It takes exactly 282 frames (minimum) to cross each screen...4.7 seconds.  66 seconds remaining on the high score makes 14 screens, so you could skip 4 underground screens from the optimal route to still be able to collect all treasures (possibly a couple more underground screens if the ones skipped involved doubling-back).  So no, it is not possible to do the entire game above ground to get all the treasure.

 

BTW 20 minutes / 4.7 seconds = 255...so visiting every screen would only be possible if there were no obstacles whatsoever.

 

thanks! at least I won't waste my time attempting then ;)



#20 Northcoastgamer OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:34 PM

While not recognized by TG, the fastest time is actually 1:42 left on the timer by Douglas Korekach (no deaths).  http://www.ataricomp...igh_scores.html

Here's a video of a game I had during the 2600 HSC a few years back. Enjoy!

 



#21 Cafeman OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:45 PM

I've seen finished games with 50 seconds left on the timer. It was in one of the HSCs we did. And it was stated he bounced off a vine so 53 or 54 is doable.


And I see ncg posted a video of that game to prove it!

#22 mika OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:55 PM

While not recognized by TG, the fastest time is actually 1:42 left on the timer by Douglas Korekach (no deaths).

Here's a video of a game I had during the 2600 HSC a few years back. Enjoy!

 

Why wasn't it recognized? Have you forgot to stain it with coffee?

 

(Ok, I must stop it. Todd Rogers jokes are not funny anymore) Great video, few breathtaking moments ;) By looking at it I can see that even faster time is possible, but it would take skilled player like you and some dedication, so I think I'll pass on beating the record, but still try to attempt 114K at some point in the future.


Edited by mika, Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:56 PM.


#23 Tempest OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:22 PM

 

Why wasn't it recognized? Have you forgot to stain it with coffee?

 

(Ok, I must stop it. Todd Rogers jokes are not funny anymore) 

 

Actually I keep getting a chuckle from them.  All I can say is, it's funny because it's true.



#24 Cafeman OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:43 PM

Nm




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