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Tutorvision games - Interest check


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#201 intvdave OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:27 AM

Thanks, that's what I thought.
Would be nice if it was....as I organized the dumping of the 1st 2 games and the console bios so they all could be made available to everyone. :)

 

I do not know AA ids so I do not know who you are but it was my dumper that dumped the 2 games. I also know others that were involved in making this happen. Please private IM me. I am curious what involvement you had / who you are.



#202 First Spear OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:13 PM

It would be cool (?) to have some kind of detection that could be done in/through IntyBASIC so a subtle change could be made to font or graphics in some way....

 

 

 

Hmm, StudioVision will spot the existence of the extra GRAM in a TutorVision and switch to full screen mode, does this mean it is the first Tutorvision specific homebrew?

[snip]



#203 freewheel OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:42 PM

It would be cool (?) to have some kind of detection that could be done in/through IntyBASIC so a subtle change could be made to font or graphics in some way....

 

 

 

Checking for the extra GRAM *should* be as simple as writing to the expanded RAM, and seeing if the value persists. Try a POKE to $400, then a PEEK. See what you get :)



#204 Lathe26 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:13 PM

 

Checking for the extra GRAM *should* be as simple as writing to the expanded RAM, and seeing if the value persists. Try a POKE to $400, then a PEEK. See what you get :)

 

Detecting the extra GRAM is almost that simple.  There are 3 known configurations out there:

  • Normal Intellivision or normal Intellivision II GRAM: 0.5KB located at $3800-$39FF and mirrored at $3A00-$3BFF, $3C00-$3DFF, $3E00-$3FFF
  • Modified Intellivision II GRAM: 1KB located $3800-$3BFF and mirrored at $3C00-$3FFF.  I'm only aware of JZ performing this modification as a one-off experiment.
  • Tutorvision GRAM: 2KB located at $3800-$3FFF

A IntyBASIC program could POKE the values 4, 2, 1 into memory locations $3E00, $3A00, $3800, respectively and in that order.  Then it would PEEK the value at memory located $3E00:

  • 4 -> 2KB GRAM (Tutorvision)
  • 2 -> 1KB GRAM (modified Intellivision II)
  • 1 -> 0.5KB GRAM (normal Intellivision or normal Intellivision II)

At least that's my understanding from the documentation.  I could be wrong.



#205 freewheel OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:33 PM

Right. I was thinking of the expanded system RAM, not GRAM. And I goofed anyway - $400 gets used by the Inty 2 EXEC. Not sure what the behaviour is there, if you try what I suggested :P



#206 Lathe26 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:07 PM

I and David Harley dumped the roms of 3 tutorvision games:

 

- Geo Graphics
- Map Mazes
- Shapes In Space
 

We could produce these games with box, manual and all, BUT they would work only on tutorvision consoles and on some (not all) of Super Pro System consoles.

 

So, they would be mainly pieces for collectors (but could be played on emulator on pc).

 

If we do it, anyone would buy them?

 

Thanks:)

 

Alessandro

 

Throwing WAAAAAAY back to the original post, it might be worth considering whether to sell the games in original and/or with 1/2 the WBEXEC merged with it (or offer a bootup menu to select between the two).  Not sure if this helps or only will add customer confusion.  Just thinking out loud here...



#207 freewheel OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:11 PM

 

Throwing WAAAAAAY back to the original post, it might be worth considering whether to sell the games in original and/or with 1/2 the WBEXEC merged with it (or offer a bootup menu to select between the two).  Not sure if this helps or only will add customer confusion.  Just thinking out loud here...

 

Bootup menu. I'm willing to bet that there are more TutorPros out there than Tutorvisions :)



#208 freewheel OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:22 PM

The last techie test I ran was the ROM from Test Cart version 4.1b (the MTE-201 test cart has an older version 3).

Summary: Tests fail, but isn't surprising.

The 4.1b cart has a cool feature where it tries to identify the system it is on. In the lower left, "O2" is displayed. This value changes based on what system you run it on. The values I've seen there are:

  • M1 - original Intellivision EXEC
  • M2 - Intellivision II EXEC (going from my memory, I'm 99% confident)
  • O1 - Sears Intellivision EXEC
  • O2 - my Tutor Pro (hmmm...)

 

Since we're bringing back old posts...

 

You get O2 on an INTV2 EXEC as well. Which is kinda interesting that your TutorPro gives the same result. I guess it's seeing stuff loaded at $2000 and just going with it.



#209 Chuck Gill OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:27 PM

I and David Harley dumped the roms of 3 tutorvision games:

 

- Geo Graphics
- Map Mazes
- Shapes In Space
 

We could produce these games with box, manual and all, BUT they would work only on tutorvision consoles and on some (not all) of Super Pro System consoles.

 

So, they would be mainly pieces for collectors (but could be played on emulator on pc).

 

If we do it, anyone would buy them?

 

Thanks:)

 

Alessandro

Alessandro, I dumped two of those using David Harley's dumper. Map Mazes and Shapes in Space were mine, where did the third game come from?

 

Chuck



#210 Steve Jones OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:15 PM

There's a guy on facebook in the Intellivision Invasion group named Steve Ettinger who says he programmed 5 Tutorvision games including these ones, you guys should get in touch with him.



#211 cmart604 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:06 PM

There's a guy on facebook in the Intellivision Invasion group named Steve Ettinger who says he programmed 5 Tutorvision games including these ones, you guys should get in touch with him.


I met Steve a few years back at The Vegas expo. Very nice guy. 👍🏻

#212 freewheel OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:15 PM

Anyone wanna guinea pig something for me? Especially *cough* Lathe *cough* as I'm curious what his system says with this ROM. I whipped up something that in theory tests all of the various chips that make a Tutorvision (or a TutorPro). I can't actually test for Lathe's system (it has the motherboard but not the EXEC, which can't currently be tested in an emulator) so I'm really interested if I got this right.

 

This'll also detect anyone with a SuperPro or INTV III, that has the INTV 2. At least I think so. Those are out there, so it's worth knowing in case you want to play Donkey Kong and just can't.

 

If someone could try this on a full-blown Tutorvision that'd be swell!

 

 

Attached Files



#213 Lathe26 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:43 AM

Anyone wanna guinea pig something for me? Especially *cough* Lathe *cough* as I'm curious what his system says with this ROM. I whipped up something that in theory tests all of the various chips that make a Tutorvision (or a TutorPro). I can't actually test for Lathe's system (it has the motherboard but not the EXEC, which can't currently be tested in an emulator) so I'm really interested if I got this right.

 

This'll also detect anyone with a SuperPro or INTV III, that has the INTV 2. At least I think so. Those are out there, so it's worth knowing in case you want to play Donkey Kong and just can't.

 

If someone could try this on a full-blown Tutorvision that'd be swell!

 

I'll try this out when I get the chance.  However, it will be a while since my current laptop is literally dying on me (after 8 years of loyal service).  I have received a replacement laptop but will be busy setting it up over the next week.

 

Feel free to ping / reminder me next week if I haven't reported back by then.



#214 freewheel OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:47 PM

 

I'll try this out when I get the chance.  However, it will be a while since my current laptop is literally dying on me (after 8 years of loyal service).  I have received a replacement laptop but will be busy setting it up over the next week.

 

Feel free to ping / reminder me next week if I haven't reported back by then.

 

Sweet dude. I've already got some encouraging news but I need to make one small tweak to the ROM to make it work on a TutorPro (which I just call an INTV88 motherboard; stealing from others here).

 

If this checks out on a few more consoles, I think we have a one-step TutorPro/Tutorvision detection ROM :)

Attached Files



#215 Chuck Gill OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:26 AM

Neat icon_mrgreen.gif It means you have the Tutorvision GROM. Next step is to try to play Worm Whomper on it. Apparently the worms won't look right, if you have the full board.

 

Also weren't the Tutorvision ROMs released on one of these threads? Couldn't a person just put them on an LTO Flash! and see what happens?

Brilliant idea, I did release the roms of the two games I have.



#216 mthompson OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:38 AM

Chuck: have you been able to try Freewheel's "Tutorvision Checker" ROM (above)? You're probably the only one who can see what it reports when run on an authentic World Book Tutorvision.



#217 Chuck Gill OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:38 PM

Anyone wanna guinea pig something for me? Especially *cough* Lathe *cough* as I'm curious what his system says with this ROM. I whipped up something that in theory tests all of the various chips that make a Tutorvision (or a TutorPro). I can't actually test for Lathe's system (it has the motherboard but not the EXEC, which can't currently be tested in an emulator) so I'm really interested if I got this right.

 

This'll also detect anyone with a SuperPro or INTV III, that has the INTV 2. At least I think so. Those are out there, so it's worth knowing in case you want to play Donkey Kong and just can't.

 

If someone could try this on a full-blown Tutorvision that'd be swell!

 

 

 

I tried it on my TutorVision and it did nothing but display a solid green screen. Hit reset , same result.



#218 Alex.Pace OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:15 PM

Alessandro, I dumped two of those using David Harley's dumper. Map Mazes and Shapes in Space were mine, where did the third game come from?

 

Chuck

 

I bought it on ebay from a sort of burglar :)



#219 Alex.Pace OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:15 PM

 

Throwing WAAAAAAY back to the original post, it might be worth considering whether to sell the games in original and/or with 1/2 the WBEXEC merged with it (or offer a bootup menu to select between the two).  Not sure if this helps or only will add customer confusion.  Just thinking out loud here...

 

Who can do this?



#220 freewheel OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:13 PM

 

I tried it on my TutorVision and it did nothing but display a solid green screen. Hit reset , same result.

 

Hey, thanks for testing it! We actually found a bug in the Tutorvision boards themselves - yes, we're debugging unreleased 30 year old hardware :)

 

Try this fixed version.

Attached Files



#221 freewheel OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:28 PM

 

Who can do this?

 

Any programmer, and probably anyone who can put a ROM onto a cart. There may be a better way to handle this though. We'll see. Either way, it's definitely possible to release games for the Tutorvision *and* INTV88 (the almost-Tutorvision that Lathe26 has).



#222 mr_me OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:13 AM

If you can activate the extended rom on the cartridge programmically, then you can first detect if it's on the mainboard and then turn it on so it's all automatic.

The term INTV88 comes from the fact that Tutorvisions [and a few INTV Intellivisions] have a big "INTV 1988" label stamped on the mainboard.

Edited by mr_me, Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:16 AM.


#223 Lathe26 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:51 PM

Rather than keep people in suspense, here's my analysis of the Super Pros on eBay.
 
These items that show signs of being or not being a Super Pro Tutorvision.  In some cases, sellers have inadvertently taken photos that help diagnosing which bucket the console falls into.
Super Pro System    A 7940      Metal shielding through vents
    https://www.ebay.com...04/292319947898
Super Pro System    A 8244      No shield (but board is inconclusive)
    https://www.ebay.com...e-/282634828110
Super Pro System    A 8800      INTV88 capacitor seen though vents
    https://www.ebay.com...04/173004152474
Super Pro System    A 11403     Mattel font, Hockey shows 159 pixels width
    https://www.ebay.com...on/311950478740
Super Pro System    A 16690     Mattel font
    https://www.ebay.com...on/132339644830
INTV System III     RH 094516   Mattel font, Baseball shows 159 pixels width
    https://www.ebay.com...ed/122838406709
 
In a nutshell, 8800 is a Super Pro Tutorvision, 8244 might be, and the rest likely aren't.  This assumes that there not other undiscovered combinations of Tutorvision parts (ex: maybe they later created a metal shield, maybe some had the Mattel font / GROM, etc, etc).


After further discussions, ser# 8244 is NOT a Tutor Pro. JoeZ pointed this out when he took a closer look at the photos.

#224 Utopia ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 7, 2018 7:28 PM

So, Will it ever be possible to play these Tutorvision roms on a standard console through LTO Flash?

I,m thinking some magical software is needed to make this happen.



#225 mr_me OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 8, 2018 3:30 AM

The rom files posted here will run on a standard Intellivision. The graphics will be messed up as seen at the end of the video. There's no way to add the extra gram through the cartridge port. Someone would have to rewrite the program to use less gram if that is possible.

http://atariage.com/...-real-hardware/

Edited by mr_me, Thu Feb 8, 2018 3:31 AM.





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