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Arcade to Jaguar ports you would like to see.

Capcom Taito porting Data East Midway Toaplan IREM SNK Namco

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#201 philipj OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:39 AM

It's not coin op related and i can only assume the original didn't sell in sufficiently well enough to justify a sequel. ...

But i so wish Core had done more with this:




Instead we got Herdy Gerdy, Shellshock, Swagman etc..

Shame....

 

That brings good memories... I rented that game and the Sega CD system when it first came out. That's more like mode 7 style graphic affects using the CD unit hardware that supported scaling and rotating. What that game company did with "Soulstar' was incredible; Galaxy Force 2 was absolutely possible it's too bad Sega never released their legacy super-scale based games for the CD unit. It would be great for more of the Sega Arcade games were ported to the Jaguar, it might attract more gamers to the system. All of the superscaler arcade stuff is totally possible even if the screen resolution was a little lower to make room for graphics just like it is with this game.


Edited by philipj, Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:42 AM.


#202 VladR OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:32 PM

 ... and that the Jaguar can match Sega Coin-Op hardware, it'd be Galaxy Force you'd be looking to replicate, not Afterburner...

Please excuse my oblivious ignorance on the console matters of the time, but I was always under the impression that AfterBurner was a killer title spanning several generations and reached a worldwide fame. Hell, it even made it into the PC-centric magazines I used to buy at the time, and it was always put on pedestal there, if consoles and arcades were mentioned.

 

Didn't AfterBurner gain a lot of traction in U.S. at the time ? Or is there another reason why you put Galaxy Force before AfterBurner ?

 

Awesome find on that BattleCorps! It's SoulStar on steroids and on jag could run very easily in high res, given that only small subsection of screen has mode7/textured floor.



#203 Lost Dragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:02 PM

Afterburner (and indeed Space Harrier) for myself was very much a killer title, in it's natural, arcade environment.

Strip it off that setting and custom cabinet and it showed it's flaws.

I've had same feelings with Paperboy.

Some games i simply loved in the arcade, but found didn't translate well to home systems where you'd play them for long periods of time.

#204 VladR OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:24 PM

I see, that makes sense. Too bad I never played AfterBurner in arcades...

 

On another note, it's a natural progression to try the SuperScaler thingy in higher resolution and these are the results I got:

 

640x200 (128,000 px), 8 different depth layers, roughly identical pixel coverage amongs all layers (to best represent the in-game scenario)

______________________________________________

 

60 fps:    348 sprites,     201,792 pixels,     1.57x overdraw

30 fps:    696 sprites,     403,584 pixels,     3.15x overdraw

20 fps: 1,044 sprites,     605,376 pixels,     4.73x overdraw

______________________________________________

 

The 60 fps would be suitable for something fast-moving - like AfterBurner

The 30 fps would be suitable for something less fast - like car/bike

The 20 fps would work for some tank - like the BattleCorps

 

Of course, at 640x200, the base sprites take up twice as much memory, so less sprite variety (e.g. different environments) - but it's still pretty impressive performance for such an old kitty...

And, unlike Object Processor, who would glitch out loooong before reaching the numbers above, Blitter is perfectly stable and glitch-free.

 

 

What looks really cool (and I just tried it :) ), is the centered 640x200 subwindow from within 1409x200, so it's really sharp and feels hires (well, because it actually is HiRes) even on large LCD. That actually feels next-gen :)

 

 

 

Oh, man, what a wasted opportunity by Atari quarter century ago. What a shame !!!



#205 Lost Dragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:43 PM

It's purely personal choices..these were by far not the only games i felt simply didn't translate well.

The custom cabinets were designed to draw you in and take your money,which they did bloody well :-))

But whilst playing Operation Wolf with a mouse for example offered you precision, there was no way it came close to the experience of using the gun controller from the arcade.

Rampage was another that gameplay wise is great in short bursts,with friends,but far too repetitive for long periods of play on the home systems.

720 another great arcade cabinet, but take it out of that environment, you do loose a lot.

For all it's many flaws, the concept behind the Konix Multisystem with moldable controller,powerchair and lightgun, was if nothing else someone realising there was such a gulf between the arcade and home experiences.

#206 philipj OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:57 PM

Here's a game that's super rare made by "Capcom" called "Slip Stream" released in 95, which is a pretty late start for such a game during all of the 3D craze that was going on in the arcades at that time, but I guess people were still hitting those soon to be dated games. This game was made using the "Sega System 32 Hardware"; a NEC-60 RISC based system, but the graphic style is very much like "Super Burnout" for the Atari Jaguar without all of the elaborate sprites to simulate bridges and what-have-you like in the game "Power Drift". I think the pseudo 3D effects are considerably done pretty good; it almost has a decent 3D thing going on the way the road and the cars are presented.

 



#207 Lost Dragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:37 AM

Wow.

Never seen Slip Stream before,thanks for sharing.

Looks like something Capcom could of brought to the Sega Saturn.

#208 Lost Dragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:54 AM

Turning thread on it's head just for a moment...

Jeff Minter had been asked about the possibilities of Jaguar Tempest 2000 being turned into a coin op and said:

Jeff: Atari *really* wanted to do this. They had a meeting with Atari Games
at the end of January, with a view to Atari Games producing a coin-op
T2K. Apparently, AG were not interested because 'it isn't a driving game
or a fighting game'.

Looks like all future AG coin-ops are going to be really diverse and
original then... ;-)

\
(:-)
/

Then after being scolded by Atari Games Jeff wrote:

Jeff: I have just received quite a stiff Email from Atari Games regarding
their decision not to produce T2K The Coinop - they took exception to my
posting earlier. There was obviously some kind of communications
foulup... here is the text of the message...
>You made a statement about our decision making process which I found
>absurd. It is myopic for us (Atari Games) to say we don't want to
produce
>a game because it is not of Type A or Type B (i.e. fighting or driving).
>We will produce a game if it makes money and makes sense. In the case of
>Tempest 2000, it may have had the potential to make a great deal of
>money, but for various reasons we could not get the game
>to market in a reasonable time-frame given the requirements a
>Tempest 2000 arcade game should have (which are clearly different
>from a Tempest 2000 home game).

There you go. From the horse's mouth.

-- Y a K

\
(:-) (lightly toasted)
/

Ouch

#209 phoenixdownita OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:52 AM

Or, just possibly.. you'd rotate the 3-4 spirtes *just once* to the correct angle for the line and blit those like they were being done before, maintaining that 512 or so sprite limit......
 
But what would I know, I'm no expert in these matters.
 
/smfh.
It's like Numberwang had a child with Clueless. Maybe you should go and actually write a game before explaining to others how to do it ;)

 

Oh, darling. Be careful, or you might pop a vein !
 
And there goes my weekend entertainment :)


... @VladR .... and even after your sarcasm you still know he's right.

BTW: the one time you could have used YT to get to know that the ST version of Outrun is pathetic (and please ... no ... no amount of good will would allow an ST or Amiga to get close to Outrun Arcade) you decided to make a totally unfounded statement about it .... priceless.

 

I think he's right on the money: Numberwang did meet Clueless.



#210 CyranoJ ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:58 AM

no ... no amount of good will would allow an ST or Amiga to get close to Outrun Arcade)

 

The ST version of Outrun is total doggy poo, which is why I never bothered finishing the port, and never will.



#211 LinkoVitch OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:41 AM

Turning thread on it's head just for a moment...

Jeff Minter had been asked about the possibilities of Jaguar Tempest 2000 being turned into a coin op and said:
 

 

Hmmm, To double down the thread flipping... :)

I wonder just how much of a headache porting T2K to a Co-Jag would be.  Obviously choose a 68020 based version.  Might be a fun oddity to create, especially if you could get the cabinet artwork looking the part and wheel it in-front of Jeff at a show :D  That probably would give him a giggle :D

I'll add it to my ever growing list of bizarre ideas that I'll probably get around to completing sometime after I am dead :D



#212 Lost Dragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:32 AM

Imagitec Design talked of having a version of Tempest 2000 running on the 3DO M2 if my memory serves...

If your reading Andrew Seed, perhaps you could shed more light on this?

#213 VladR OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:28 AM

 


... @VladR .... and even after your sarcasm you still know he's right.

BTW: the one time you could have used YT to get to know that the ST version of Outrun is pathetic (and please ... no ... no amount of good will would allow an ST or Amiga to get close to Outrun Arcade) you decided to make a totally unfounded statement about it .... priceless.

 

I think he's right on the money: Numberwang did meet Clueless.

Why on earth would I want to study ST's version of anything or claim it could come close to arcade? I don't give two flying fucks for ST.

 

I never claimed I am intimately aware of jaguar's 2D pixel pushing powers. Do not confuse that with bandwidth.

 

This was the first time I did a 2D-only sprite benchmark on jag, in a scenario that at least remotely resembles in-game load (8 depth layers, 4 different sprite sizes) for one specific 2D game type.

 

 

 

Yes, based on my high-res 3D engine coding, I knew that jag has some spare bandwidth when it comes to resolutions above 320x200, but from road rash coding I also knew that there's a world of difference in Blitter's performance the moment you make it transfer pixels (not just fill them with constant - flatshading).

 

 

So, yes, it was kinda unexpected for me to see how many pixels it can push in 640x200. Oh, and since last 3 days I got few other optimization ideas and different approaches how to handle the rotation (not just that simple one CJ came up with).

 

 

The Superscaler games, yes - I could be talked into those on jag. There's a very specific charm about them. But it needs a proper pixel artist. I am afraid the pre-rendered sprites from 3dsmax would look like shit...



#214 madman OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:13 PM



The Superscaler games, yes - I could be talked into those on jag.

Look guys, hints at more of VladR's upcoming releases! We just gotta talk him into it!



#215 VladR OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:18 PM

;)



#216 philipj OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:30 PM

 

Hmmm, To double down the thread flipping... :)

I wonder just how much of a headache porting T2K to a Co-Jag would be.  Obviously choose a 68020 based version.  Might be a fun oddity to create, especially if you could get the cabinet artwork looking the part and wheel it in-front of Jeff at a show :D  That probably would give him a giggle :D

I'll add it to my ever growing list of bizarre ideas that I'll probably get around to completing sometime after I am dead :D

 

I've often wish the Co-Jag could be consolized like the Neo Geo just to take advantage of the enhanced hardware and extra ram it has... Not enough retro activity going on concerning the cojag with exception of the "Primal Rage 2" and even with that, they used the R3000 cpu to get the game working right instead of the 68020 version. It would be a dream project for me to make something really good the home console and then ported to the Co-Jag.



#217 VladR OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:39 PM

 

I've often wish the Co-Jag could be consolized like the Neo Geo just to take advantage of the enhanced hardware and extra ram it has... Not enough retro activity going on concerning the cojag with exception of the "Primal Rage 2" and even with that, they used the R3000 cpu to get the game working right instead of the 68020 version. It would be a dream project for me to make something really good the home console and then ported to the Co-Jag.

While we could argue how many of those 100-200 copies of jag games [that get sold] get actually played, there's no doubt they are actively / rabidly collected and at least majority of them [hopefully] played to some degree.

 

But CoJag ? How many actively played units are out there ? About ten ? Maybe Even Eleven, per chance ?

 

There's still a lot of new ground that can be broken in the core jag environment. No need to go for a total obscurity that cojag is...

 

Just grab a skunk,  an smac compiler and start producing some code...



#218 LinkoVitch OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:41 PM

 

I've often wish the Co-Jag could be consolized like the Neo Geo just to take advantage of the enhanced hardware and extra ram it has... Not enough retro activity going on concerning the cojag with exception of the "Primal Rage 2" and even with that, they used the R3000 cpu to get the game working right instead of the 68020 version. It would be a dream project for me to make something really good the home console and then ported to the Co-Jag.

 

Um, they did "consolize" the CoJag, it's called the Atari Jaguar :D  it's the same chipset (albeit with more RAM and ROM, and fatter buses), the general CPU is the only other difference, like all console versions of arcade hardware, the home version is a cheaper version.

Why not start by actually making something on the jaguar?  It's quite easy, instead of writing text into AtariAge, you stick it into your fave editor, and either compile or assemble it. 

 



#219 pacman000 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:56 PM

But CoJag ? How many actively played units are out there ? About ten ? Maybe Even Eleven, per chance ?

Area 51 sold 20k units. I hope more than 10 or 11 co-jags get regular use.

 

https://en.wikipedia...995_video_game)



#220 madman OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:15 PM

I've often wish the Co-Jag could be consolized like the Neo Geo just to take advantage of the enhanced hardware and extra ram it has... 

The co-jag is just a JAMMA board like the Neo Geo 1 slots. No reason you can't consolize it, but you'd need an enclosure unlike consolizing something like an Atomiswave or PGM board that have their own cases. The simpler thing to do would be to use a Supergun. Getting it to work in a home environment is the easy part.



#221 philipj OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:40 PM

I've seen SSD kits on ebay for the Cojag arcade boards where you can load games on an SSD hard drive... I thought that was pretty interesting.



#222 LinkoVitch OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:43 PM

I've seen SSD kits on ebay for the Cojag arcade boards where you can load games on an SSD hard drive... I thought that was pretty interesting.

Um, Are you sure that's not just an SSD replacement for the original HDD that was used in the games to store the video used?  As the original spinning rust devices are going to fail, so an SSD replacement would be a sensible change...

Pretty sure it's not going to be an everdrive type solution.  (One version of the cabinet did have Area 51 and Maximum Force on, but this was an official thing IIRC)



#223 phoenixdownita OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:09 PM

Why on earth would I want to study ST's version of anything or claim it could come close to arcade? I don't give two flying fucks for ST.
...

It was your statement that Outrun Arcade was a game even an ST could handle.

 

BTW look at the sequence of Outrun under the "log tunnel" or under the "cloudy sky" to check how much "overdraw" is in place.



#224 skip OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:37 PM

re: T2K arcade version - someone actually did a T2K arcade conversion (not sure I've seen it posted here at AA before).

http://forums.atari....arcade-cabinet/(and there are photos / info elsewhere e.g. Google+, do a search for "tempest 2000 arcade" and you'll find 'em)

Pros: amazing attention to detail with the cabinet and the artwork (it looks legit like you would expect an arcade conversion of T2K to look like), the 'best' version of T2K, the proper Jag version.
Con: the only con I can think of is that the Jag version of T2K can run @ 60Hz under emulation, you'll get the authentic slowdown with this.

Having run TxK on my PSTV, the release of a T3K rotary, and now I have T4K, my dream project would be to make / have an arcade machine that looks identical to the above, but has the ability to switch between T2K, T3K, TxK, and T4K. Could you imagine that...!  :lust:  :love:  :o



#225 Lost Dragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:15 AM

Looking back through some old UK Press,i found US Gold saying the last thing they wanted to do was rush ST Out Run as a poor conversion of the official conversion would only drive consumers to buy 1 of the clones that were appearing on the market..

And Argonaut's Jez San saying they had only 10 weeks to produce ST and Amiga Afterburner and the game was let down by the poor artwork which was produced.

:-))





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