Jump to content
IGNORED

Advice for someone getting into the VIC-20


zetastrike

Recommended Posts

The classic "Outworld" has a very attractive gamescreen with a lot going on; it looks almost C64-ish. The newer "Pulse" is also attractive with its fast-moving, side-scrolling software sprites and landscapes.

 

Writing from Prague, the Czech Republic,

Robert Bernardo

Fresno Commodore User Group

http://www.dickestel.com/fcug.htm

 

I'm not saying all games for the VIC are unattractive. If you look at the ports of games on other systems, the graphics are a bit "blocky". However, I do think the color palettes are fantastic.

 

I also ADORE the sounds of the VIC-20.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I'm not saying all games for the VIC are unattractive. If you look at the ports of games on other systems, the graphics are a bit "blocky". However, I do think the color palettes are fantastic.

 

I also ADORE the sounds of the VIC-20.

Yeah, I find myself noticing the colors in the games. C64 has a pretty drab palette in comparison. The sound reminds me of Intellivision for some reason. I have to get some heatsinks because I'm afraid to use the thing for more than a half hour.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J727AZ using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ahh..the Vic. My first (and favorite!) computer. I really really love the Vic. The Behr-Bonz multicart is an incredible value for cart based games as it is around $40 IIRC and has around 120 titles. I would only recommend the Penultimate if you are planning on using SD2IEC as it has the ram expansion you would want/need and includes a really simple way of launching the SD2IEC interface. The game selection on it is weak and some games are PAL only. I have a MegaCart myself which is in my opinion the best, but it is a pain to get. Took me around 5 years and I only got it because a member here on AA sold it to me. Forget getting it from the developer.

 

And, if you haven't tried DragonFire for the Vic you should. I personally think it is the best port of the game on any platform ;)

Edited by eightbit
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to get some heatsinks because I'm afraid to use the thing for more than a half hour.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J727AZ using Tapatalk

If you REALLY love your Vic these are great:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00377JXWE/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

I used these on the VIC chip, kernel rom and some others. I have no heat issues with the Vic with these. I can probably leave it on for weeks...although I wouldn't do that to my friendly computer ;) Also, make sure to remove the metal cover that is covering the VIC chip and toss it. Even if you do not have heatsinks yet (you will need to remove it to add them and you will not be able to put the cover back on when you do anyway) you should remove it immediately. That is a lot of the reason the VIC chip burns out.

 

I haven't spent a lot of time recently with my Vic due to work/life, but this thread had me thinking about it and I fired it up tonight and played a few titles. The Vic never disappoints. This is the computer that should have an active homebrew scene and new game releases. It really deserves the love.

Edited by eightbit
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do believe there is an active homebrew scene at Denial, plus that a number of demo groups from the C64 scene increasingly are getting interested in the VIC-20. Of course very little of it is advertised here on AtariAge, but that isn't to say it doesn't exist.

 

I was not aware of the homebrew scene for the Vic to be honest. I guess I should do some more research :) The only drawback I have found is that a lot of the new demos and stuff are PAL only and do not run correctly on my NTSC VIC :(

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Some people already replied, but I'd like to give my viewpoint as well.

 

I am in the strange land between 'knowledgeable about the VIC-20' and 'also wanting some help and resources'.

 

I have the Behr-Bonz and an old Expansion memory cart (can't use both simultaneously), and I use the SD2IEC device, as with small files, like these, you don't need anything fast.

 

 

Do the games hold up as well as C64 or A8bit?

 

Well, that depends on which games you think 'hold up well', and in fact, what you actually mean by 'holding up'.

Maybe we can start by defining the terms and drilling into the core of this whole thing;

Any game that was good in the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s or 2000s, is still just as good. This is the statement that I live by. Anything that seemed to be good back 'then', and is now complete crap, was ALWAYS crap, but it just dazzled people (in some way) into thinking that it was good.

A good game made in 1978 will be a good game in the year 297 789 551.

(I am sure it will still exist because of some sort of interplanetary and perhaps even inter-dimensional emulation. I mean, only the physical gets destroyed, data exists 'everywhere' and thus is very difficult to completely eradicate, especially after ther internet goes truly 'Universal' (or more like, joins the already existing Universenet, but that's perhaps a topic for another post))

Therefore, any good VIC-20 game will always "hold up".

It's difficult to know how to compare 'holding up' (such an esoteric, and difficult-to-define term) between platforms. Does Pharaoh's Curse's C64 version 'hold up' as well as Atari 800 XL's version of the same game?

I can't even compare 'holding up' between games on the same platform. Does Impossible Mission hold as well as Wizard of Wor? How can this be measured? Holdup-o-meter?

The Commodore VIC-20 has good games and bad games. It also has mediocre games, just like any platform. I wasn't that interested in the VIC-20, except as a weird curiosity that I never got to see as a kid (I always saw commercials on TV, but then I saw C64, and the rest was history).

However, one day, I decided to delve into it a bit deeper, and see what the fascination is all about. I had thought it's like a poor man's Atari 2600 (which has surprisingly excellent and colorful games with magnificent sound made for it).

The first difficulty was 'how can I load a game into a VIC-20 emulator'. It was surprisingly complicated, compared to C64-emulators and even Atari emulators.

Once I got it figured out, I just started going through all kinds of games, and I started noticing a beautiful charm about them. I liked the games, it was like something between Game & Watch and C64 (charmwise, that is).

I also watched the LGN review of VIC-20, and started realizing I had been missing out on something by never experiencing the system. Eventually, after finding many games that I liked a lot, I started itching to test how it would feel to play them on a real VIC.

After many hardships, I finally achieved my goal and now own a real VIC-20 - a real beauty with its smooth, white curves and brown function keys.

It's such a fun thing to program (simple programs in BASIC, at least), and to type on, and I love the 'feel' a lot.

To me, the games 'hold up'. You just have to have a separate VIC-mode, or perhaps attitude towards them. If you don't expect the graphics to look as good as C64 or sometimes, even Atari 2600 (those colorful 'rainbows' and raster bars are usually missing - but the games can be very cool, like 'Demon Attack' proves - same game, better on the Atari, but the VIC-20 version is pretty darned amazing anyway).

I also have a soft spot for Pharaoh's Curse - it has just such atmospheric graphics on the VIC. Then again, I also happen to love the Atari 800 XL's expression of that game, as well as the Commodore 64's effort. An I even stumbled upon the Amiga conversion that my Amiga 1200 gladly lets me play, too.

(Though it's very similar to the C64 version)

 

 

Other users and I are particularly impressed with Pulse, which was released last year.

 

What do you mean by 'last year'? Mobygames lists it as 2014 game.

 

I want to check it out, nevertheless.

 

 

Check out the Scott Adams adventure series if you haven't played those games elsewhere.

This I don't really understand. I have those adventures in the Behr-Bonz cart (which is wonderful and amazing and great and ooh.. it's SO fast, you can't even blink before a game is loaded), but.. just out of curiosity, I decided to check other versions as well.

Atari 800 XL showed me its interpretation, which was a bit difficult to read. Then I saw the C64-version - THAT HAS GRAPHICS !! (and most pleasant colors and most clear text) - and can't really figure out why the heck anyone would play any other version. The C64 versions of these adventures are clearly superior. Why play the VIC-20-version, when you can play the C64-version? I only checked one of the games, though, this might not apply to all of them.

I am not mocking anything, I just honestly would like to know. (To me, it is like playing the C64-version of Golden Axe, if you can play the Arcade version, or even the Amiga version).

 

 

The sound reminds me of Intellivision for some reason.

 

I am not sure how Intellivision sounds (I've only emulated it a bit, as the games mostly seem either too weird or too garbage, but Tron is pretty good), but I am sure it doesn't have VIC's quirky noise wave.

 

The interesting thing about the sound of these old machines, is that their sound chips are sort of unique and quirky. From the first listen, you'd think they all give the same pulse wave, etc.

But when you really study this, you will notice that C16 square wave looks different to VIC-20 square wave (and sounds slightly different, too).

To me, the most interesting sound wave is the noise wave, though. Sadly, for the Atari 2600 jr., The C16 and the VIC-20, it's not 'randomly generated', but table-based. Kind of a bummer. It will sound 'repetitive' instead of 'random'.

As good news, though, C64's and Atari 800 XL's noise wave is 'randomized', and combining these noise waves in various ways is always fun, you get really cool sounds. (I made all kinds of different noise waves on the C64 alone the other day, using all three channels for noise, but varying pitch, varying filter, cutoff, etc., and of course did the same with Atari 800 XL BASIC commands, as it has four sound channels, so you can create quite interesting noise wave combos)..

The peculiar thing about VIC-20 is that its noise wave is the MOST weird of all! It hardly even sounds like noise sometimes. I have no idea how the heck it's generated, but it's softer and more 'electric'-sounding, perhaps more 'round'-sounding? than the others. Atari 800 XL has a very crunchy and explosive, almost ripping noise wave that C64 can't imitate, but then, the C64 has those filters and despite the 'softness' of the noise wave, can create really cool effects (playing the lowest possible note without and with filter creates neat variations).

So anyway, VIC-20's sound capabilities are a little weak and limited, as you can't have three notes freely playing together, for example, but there are different 'ranges' that you must utilize, and I think if you play noise, it can 'affect' the other sound (not sure about this), etc.

I could talk about sound experiments and these wonderful 8-bit machines all day long, but suffice to say I plan to utilize these sounds in my own productions, and have already created an EoTB-like "lightning" background for one production, and utilized a VIC-20 noise wave fluctuation for my adventure game.

I also learned how to utilize a C16-palette to draw pics that I can show on my real C16, but that's a topic for another discussion. (C16 has a -weird- palette, when you really get down to it - so many 'similar' colors, and yet not very dark colors at all)

(I'd like to learn to do the same to Atari 800 XL and VIC-20 - I saw a fantastic 'Pharaoh' pic that someone called 'Mike' had drawn for the VIC, but the PRG download didn't work, and I am still not sure how to do graphics for the VIC)

 

And, if you haven't tried DragonFire for the Vic you should. I personally think it is the best port of the game on any platform

Wow. Did you ever try the Atari 2600 version? What makes you think the VIC-version is the best? To me, it's pretty much the same game, but I'd rather play the Atari version, as it looks better.

As a sidenote, VIC-20's version of Gorf is the only one I have trouble completing. Well, Atari 800 XL's version is difficult, too. But even the Arcade version is easier, and the C64-version can be completed without any problems.

 

BTW, here's my VIC-20 in action.

 

VIC-20_Showing_off_Atari_version_of_Nint

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another site you might find helpful is:

 

http://www.melon64.com/forum/index.php?sid=61ef32d5a71cf5672737f51f3279982a

 

While there are loads of cartridge games availble, you might want to read up on using a real disk drive too. Along with of the new SD card readers, and super cartridges, it can be handy to have a real disk drive too.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I remember that Scott Adams' adventures first were relased as text only for the C64 by Commodore (assigned license from the VIC-20 sales?) and later re-released with graphics by Adventureland International, probably also extended in gameplay as they had to optimize it a lot to fit interpreter + game data in 16K ROM on the VIC-20 games.

 

As for sound, you can definitely use all three square waves + noise channel at the same time. It is hard to make them play in tune, and one must not exceed a certain global volume to avoid clipping. It is true that the voices are arranged one octave apart which makes it a little more of a challenge to arrange music, but definitely doable - I've done it on and off for 20 years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a paper somewhere (@Tursi provided a link in the TI forum regarding the unpredictable oscillator output of the 9919) in which the author describes a method for not only predicting but controlling the audio oscillator output of the VIC. This way when playing the same frequency from multiple generators you do not run into the problem of opposing phase output cancelling each other.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

The classic "Outworld" has a very attractive gamescreen with a lot going on; it looks almost C64-ish. The newer "Pulse" is also attractive with its fast-moving, side-scrolling software sprites and landscapes.

 

 

Wow those are some pretty sweet Vic 20 games from te videos on youtube. Thanks for sharing. Spider City and Bandits were my favorite Vic-20 games back in the day..

Edited by thetick1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the acknowledgement, a hidden gem of the Commodore era.

 

I would hit the function keys on the Commodore to change the default colors. I like the back ground to stay black as in outer space and change the "vector" lines to yellow. The C64 version played the same, but had "skinny" graphics.

 

Try the Arcade emulated on Mame, even if no Spinner the Mouse works out well. One button for fire, the other for thrust. There are other "Space War" themed Arcade games to discover from that lost era. look for Blasto and Rip Off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I bought the Penultimate cartridge, aptly named as I quickly realized that I couldn't put the Scott Adams games into it. My fault for not paying attention, though still it comes with 40 games and more, like the Super Expander function, and arrived in California only a week after ordering.

 

I fear the two-prong power brick only moves the other parts of a psu inside the main unit, there are still things that can fail in the psu - only they are inside the computer in this case. Speaking of failing, my audio output doesn't work. The VIC I found was missing some keys, but one of those cheap Archer NOS C16 keyboards fixed that right up, I popped off the required missing keys and put them on the VIC.

2018 01 18 20.43.00

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...