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2k Is No Limit - a new 2k demo


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#1 SvOlli OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Oct 2, 2017 2:33 AM

As a short notice: I've released a fun little demo for the 2600 on the demoparty "Deadline" that happened last weekend in Berlin.

 

Here's the Pouet link: https://www.pouet.ne...php?which=71871

And here's the link to my little website containing source code and other stuff: https://xayax.net/2k_is_no_limit/

 

It's implmented for a PAL machine, but this should be my first demo, where porting to NTSC should be doable.

 

Hope you enjoy running it as much as I did making it.

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#2 explorer OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Oct 2, 2017 9:07 AM

¿What Assembler and linker used?


Edited by explorer, Mon Oct 2, 2017 9:08 AM.


#3 nanochess ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Oct 2, 2017 10:36 AM



#4 SvOlli OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Oct 2, 2017 12:01 PM

¿What Assembler and linker used?

ca65 of the cc65 development sute: https://cc65.github.io/doc/



#5 Arenafoot OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 3, 2017 2:23 PM

Are all of the ROMs for the Atari 2600 listed on pouet.net demo's only??? I don't think I've seen an actual homebrew "game" posted on there.



#6 Osgeld OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 3, 2017 2:30 PM

Are all of the ROMs for the Atari 2600 listed on pouet.net demo's only??? I don't think I've seen an actual homebrew "game" posted on there.

 

well it is a website dedicated to the demoscene ... 



#7 SvOlli OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 3, 2017 3:07 PM

Are all of the ROMs for the Atari 2600 listed on pouet.net demo's only??? I don't think I've seen an actual homebrew "game" posted on there.

 

The site is demo orientated, but there are a few games in there as well, the most sophisticated probably being Assembloids2600:

Link to all games for the 2600 on Pouet: http://www.pouet.net...tari VCS&page=1



#8 Arenafoot OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 3, 2017 5:14 PM

 

well it is a website dedicated to the demoscene ... 

ohh i didn't know



#9 Osgeld OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 3, 2017 5:55 PM

ohh i didn't know


and now you do :)



#10 CurtisP OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:47 PM


It's implemented for a PAL machine, but this should be my first demo, where porting to NTSC should be doable.

 

Do you plan to do the NTSC port yourself?



#11 SvOlli OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:11 PM

 

Do you plan to do the NTSC port yourself?

 

Not very soon. Right now, I've got to attend to other projects and also clean up my website, add some cartridge labels for my releases, etc. And I'm not very sure that there  really is a demand for it... I also noticed that I already did an NTSC capable demo: http://xayax.net/plasma/ can be configured via the difficulty switches: 50/60Hz and PAL/NTSC palette.

 

The 50Hz vs 60Hz timing shouldn't be much of a problem, colors neither. The main effort will be the music. It might need some workover, but I'm not a musician. If you would like to give it a shot, let me know via PM, and I'll explain how I did the conversion of the generated dasm assembler to ca65.



#12 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:00 AM

The 50Hz vs 60Hz timing shouldn't be much of a problem, colors neither. The main effort will be the music. It might need some workover, but I'm not a musician. If you would like to give it a shot, let me know via PM, and I'll explain how I did the conversion of the generated dasm assembler to ca65.

Couldn't you simply update the music in fractional frames? It is updated every 4 frames, right?

 

Then, for PAL, you would have to update every 4/60*50 = 3.33... frames. This can be achieved by adding 256/3.33 = ~77 to a variable (e.g. tt_timer) every frame. And when the carry is set afterwards, it is time to update the music.

 

And, to stay in sync, you would have to do the same with all animations of course.


Edited by Thomas Jentzsch, Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:06 AM.


#13 JAC! OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:42 PM

Couldn't you simply update the music in fractional frames? 

I did that several times also on and it works very well normally. 



#14 SvOlli OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:18 PM

I asked SunSpire (the musician) if he could doublecheck if the NTSC export of TIA Tracker would also work, and meets his demands, or if it will need changes.

 

Once this is decided, I'll compare the dumps and decide if I want to go for a branched version of a single source with defines.



#15 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:57 AM

AFAIK the TIA tracker doesn't support fractional timings (yet). But the required code change is just minimal, so you can easily do that on your own. Also I am not sure how your musician can help you here.



#16 SvOlli OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:39 PM

It's implmented for a PAL machine, but this should be my first demo, where porting to NTSC should be doable.

It is done.

 

Do you plan to do the NTSC port yourself?

Yes.

 

Couldn't you simply update the music in fractional frames? It is updated every 4 frames, right?

 

[...]

 

And, to stay in sync, you would have to do the same with all animations of course.

I changed the speed to every 5th frame on NTSC. So we've got 180 BPM vs 187.5 BPM on PAL. Close enough.

 

I didn't do anything else to stay in sync, as the animation was completely driven by the variables of the music.

 

This means the colors when flashing are different... have fun.

 

I also added some labels to the website, in case someone really wants to order a custom cart in the store... ;-)

 

Also think of the NTSC version more than a proof of concept than a true release, and I don't think that I won't do another NTSC port anytime soon.



#17 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:31 AM

If you don't want to use the (superior!) fractional approach, you could reduce the number of scanlines to (312 / 5 * 4 =) ~250, then the beats would be (almost 100%) identical too. 



#18 Kylearan OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:08 AM

Note that PAL vs. NTSC music is not only about speed but also about pitch. TIA Notes have slightly different frequencies and thus sound differently when played with 50Hz vs. 60Hz. It's a small difference, but it might mess with what the composer (or listener) considers to be an acceptable level of "out of tune" for a given song. :)



#19 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:18 PM

In relation to each other, the notes are 100% identical out of tune. Just the overall pitch is slightly different.



#20 JAC! OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:16 AM

Reading this discussion really puts a smile on my face. Grown up coders discussing the appropriate amount of "out of beat" and "out of tune" of a 2 channel port of a 90ies techno pop song. I love this hobby :-)

 

And as a big fan on the original song, I can confirm the NTSC and PAL version sound great.






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