In defense of Pac-Man...

[jaybird3rd]

In case it might be helpful in the future, I made an index for my history pages so we can quickly find the actual release month/year or best guess month/year for just about every Atari 2600 NTSC game that was released in North America between 1977 and 1992:

 

randomterrain.com/rt-atari-2600-game-index.html

 

I got behind when I was moving and getting my gallbladder operation, so not all games have links and links for games from 1987 to 1992 don't go anywhere yet, but I'm trying to finish the rest of the pages as fast as I can.

Very useful indeed! Thank you!

[ubersaurus]

Ms Pac Man was also developed externally at GCC, who also were behind other crazy good arcade ports: Galaxian and Moon Patrol. Those dudes were miracle workers... and also did the arcade game, so they were pretty into what elements needed to be carried over for a good port.

Edited March 24, 2018 by ubersaurus

[Andromeda Stardust]

Ms Pac Man was also developed externally at GCC, who also were behind other crazy good arcade ports: Galaxian and Moon Patrol. Those dudes were miracle workers... and also did the arcade game, so they were pretty into what elements needed to be carried over for a good port.

Awesome. I knew there was no way in Haydes that the same company responsible for the abysmal Pacman port could just do a 180 and pull a stellar Ms Pacman out of their butts one year later. Same guys who made the original Ms Pacman did a fine job on the vcs port. Who programmed Jr Pacman vcs?

[Andromeda Stardust]

bah-dae-dah-dee! bonk. bonk. bonk. bonk-bonk-bonk. bonk. bonk. bonk. boooooooop. bonk. bonk. bonk. bonk. bonk-bonk-bonk......... I just enjoy that sound whenever Pac-Man eats a dot (lol)..... oooops, I meant when he eats a dash, and also the booooooooop sound he makes when he eats either a power pill or a bonus pill where the fruit should be at.

Another thing that I can't get out of my mind... Every time I put in Pacman... That obnoxious sound effect when pacman dies... I can't not think of the giant wanker from beat em every time i hear that sound effect... Some guy here at AA still uses it as his avatar... Mystique ripped the sound effect straight out of pacman, and it fits the theme perfectly...

[retrorussell]

I "won" it after I got good grades/did all my homework. I was more lenient towards it than most gamers. I enjoyed it-- knew it was highly inferior to the original-- but that made my eventual return to the local arcade (when I could play the real thing) that much more sweet. The 2600 version filled a hole for the time being. I had to play the hardest version (fast ghosts) because I would hog the game from my sister otherwise.

[ubersaurus]

Awesome. I knew there was no way in Haydes that the same company responsible for the abysmal Pacman port could just do a 180 and pull a stellar Ms Pacman out of their butts one year later. Same guys who made the original Ms Pacman did a fine job on the vcs port. Who programmed Jr Pacman vcs?

Ava-Robin Cohen, from GCC, according to atariprotos.

[+Spriggy]

A mild expansion on my previous comment ... At 10-11 years old... I didn't know any different or give a f#%k! (from memory). Smashed the 2600 port/version! Didn't have to tip-toe or stand on a crate to play the arcade with poise. Could sit at home on the furry 80's lounge and play the 'Pac' for free!

Edited March 25, 2018 by spriggamortis

[Mr SQL]

This thread raises some interesting questions - what defines Pacman more, the gameplay or how the characters look?

 

I think Todd did an awesome job with the gameplay mechanics and I like the look on CRT, particularly with the alternate palette set (black and white).

 

But I think KC Munchkin shouldn't have lost in court because the dots and power pellet were moving characters and the maze constantly changed resulting in significantly different gameplay, would have been much cooler to see this genre on the VCS instead of taking KC away from all systems.

 

Ironically unchallenged games like Alien and RacerBall had different looking characters and less flicker, but they featured the same gameplay with inferior mechanics:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl34YqQVV4w

 

 

[pacman000]

Going from memory: the court basically said the gameplay wasn't copyrightable, but the characters were.

 

It's like a cartoon starring Micky Mouse in a mask. Plot may be original, but you still can't use someone else's character.

[Mr SQL]

I wonder what could have exempted the game board from being included with that line of reasoning along with the characters.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Going from memory: the court basically said the gameplay wasn't copyrightable, but the characters were.

 

It's like a cartoon starring Micky Mouse in a mask. Plot may be original, but you still can't use someone else's character.

It was IMO a bad court decision which was later found that game mechanics are non-copyrightable.

 

Space Invaders = A space ship that shoots aliens. That means no Galaxian, no Galaga, ect...

 

Pacman = Navigate a maze and collect pellets. Okay. That means no Munchkin, no Ladybug, no maze games ever, etc...

 

Pitfall = Run and jump. Sweet. No Super Mario Brothers, no sonic, or the myriad of other platformers that crowded the 3rd and 4th generations and beyond...

 

Okay so Tetris exists. No falling block games, ever again. No Columns, no Bust a Move / Puzzle Bobble, no Puzzle de Pon, no Bejeweled, Candy Crush, etc...

 

PONG means no breakout, Arkanoid, etc...

 

Combat simulators with a first person perspective where you try to gun down enemy combatants. Yeah, there was like just one of those...

 

Basically copyrightable game mechanics means one company gets a monopoly on the entire genre for the rest of time. That would stifle creation pretty quick.

[pacman000]

https://openjurist.org/672/f2d/607/atari-inc-v-north-american-philips-consumer-electronics-corp

 

Here's the decision for the Pac-Man/K. C. Munchin' lawsuit.

[zzip]

Remember, though, that Ms. Pac-Man was released in 1982 instead of 1981, and is an 8K game rather than 4K. It also lacks a two-player mode.

Pacman was released at the start of the 8K era, other releases around it got 8K. That they denied 8K to what should have been their flagship title is baffling. I guess they just figured it would sell based on its name.

[JBerel]

It was IMO a bad court decision which was later found that game mechanics are non-copyrightable.

 

Space Invaders = A space ship that shoots aliens. That means no Galaxian, no Galaga, ect...

 

Pacman = Navigate a maze and collect pellets. Okay. That means no Munchkin, no Ladybug, no maze games ever, etc...

 

Pitfall = Run and jump. Sweet. No Super Mario Brothers, no sonic, or the myriad of other platformers that crowded the 3rd and 4th generations and beyond...

 

Okay so Tetris exists. No falling block games, ever again. No Columns, no Bust a Move / Puzzle Bobble, no Puzzle de Pon, no Bejeweled, Candy Crush, etc...

 

PONG means no breakout, Arkanoid, etc...

 

Combat simulators with a first person perspective where you try to gun down enemy combatants. Yeah, there was like just one of those...

 

Basically copyrightable game mechanics means one company gets a monopoly on the entire genre for the rest of time. That would stifle creation pretty quick.

 

From my read of the court decision, the timing and exposure of the original Pac-Man in relation to the defendant's release figured heavily into the decision. While they wrote a fair amount about the visuals and characters, what seemed to sway the judge was the fact that the creators had opportunity to see the original Pac-Man well in advance of creating their product, and their product was motivated by the original. Since Atari and Midway had a license for the first home release based on the original, I think that tipped the scales against Magnavox. Had Magnavox just released their product the same day or after Atari Pac-Man, I doubt there would ever have been a case. Given the context of the time, I think it was a reasonable decision. The marketing world was abuzz about the forthcoming Pac-Man release on the 2600 for many months, so there was a lot hanging in the balance. The seemingly endless time between announcement and release contributed to the disappointment in the final release. Then, as today, Atari showed they were better at teasing, suing and disappointing than meeting customer demands.

[pacman000]

Keep in mind, the court made it very clear that the basic gameplay elements weren't copyrightable; Magnavox could've made a dot collecting maze game & gotten away with it. The court thought the characters were too similar; that's why they considered K. C. Munchin' infringing.

 

(The fact that some of Magnavox's dealers called the game their version of Pacman didn't help.)

[Galactus]

I loved it. We played it for hours, though it was most likely a timing thing.

[Galactus]

I loved it. We played it for hours, though it was most likely a timing thing.

[VectorGamer]

I loved it. We played it for hours, though it was most likely a timing thing.

[+save2600]

I loved it. We played it for hours, though it was most likely a timing thing.

 

 

I loved it. We played it for hours, though it was most likely a timing thing.

 

 

I loved it. We played it for hours, though it was most likely a timing thing.

 

 

[Inky]

I loved it. We played it for hours, though it was most likely a timing thing.

 

 

I loved it. We played it for hours, though it was most likely a timing thing.

 

 

I loved it. We played it for hours, though it was most likely a timing thing.

 

 

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/amazing-alexander/n9457

[retrorussell]

Hello? Hello? Hello? Echo! Echo! Echo!

[Andromeda Stardust]

I loved it. We played it for hours, though it was most likely a timing thing.

Children will play crappy games for hours if they don't have something better to entertain themselves with. Adults are more discerning with our free time. Plus there's thousands of games at our disposal and the Internet to tell us what's good and what sucks.

 

Kids bitd played whatever mommy and daddy spent their hard earned money for, and they'd better damn appreciate the gesture if they have any hopes of getting more in the future.

 

Now children these days are getting spoiled on smartphones and tablets, and wouldn't know a good game if it bit them in the ass, let alone how to use a joystick.

 

I loved it. We played it for hours, though it was most likely a timing thing.

Children will play crappy games for hours if they don't have something better to entertain themselves with. Adults are more discerning with our free time. Plus there's thousands of games at our disposal and the Internet to tell us what's good and what sucks.

 

Kids bitd played whatever mommy and daddy spent their hard earned money for, and they'd better damn appreciate the gesture if they have any hopes of getting more in the future.

 

Now children these days are getting spoiled on smartphones and tablets, and wouldn't know a good game if it bit them in the ass, let alone how to use a joystick.

 

I loved it. We played it for hours, though it was most likely a timing thing.

Children will play crappy games for hours if they don't have something better to entertain themselves with. Adults are more discerning with our free time. Plus there's thousands of games at our disposal and the Internet to tell us what's good and what sucks.

 

Kids bitd played whatever mommy and daddy spent their hard earned money for, and they'd better damn appreciate the gesture if they have any hopes of getting more in the future.

 

Now children these days are getting spoiled on smartphones and tablets, and wouldn't know a good game if it bit them in the ass, let alone how to use a joystick.

[VectorGamer]

Children will play crappy games for hours if they don't have something better to entertain themselves with. Adults are more discerning with our free time. Plus there's thousands of games at our disposal and the Internet to tell us what's good and what sucks.

 

Kids bitd played whatever mommy and daddy spent their hard earned money for, and they'd better damn appreciate the gesture if they have any hopes of getting more in the future.

 

Now children these days are getting spoiled on smartphones and tablets, and wouldn't know a good game if it bit them in the ass, let alone how to use a joystick.

 

Children will play crappy games for hours if they don't have something better to entertain themselves with. Adults are more discerning with our free time. Plus there's thousands of games at our disposal and the Internet to tell us what's good and what sucks.

 

Kids bitd played whatever mommy and daddy spent their hard earned money for, and they'd better damn appreciate the gesture if they have any hopes of getting more in the future.

 

Now children these days are getting spoiled on smartphones and tablets, and wouldn't know a good game if it bit them in the ass, let alone how to use a joystick.

 

Children will play crappy games for hours if they don't have something better to entertain themselves with. Adults are more discerning with our free time. Plus there's thousands of games at our disposal and the Internet to tell us what's good and what sucks.

 

Kids bitd played whatever mommy and daddy spent their hard earned money for, and they'd better damn appreciate the gesture if they have any hopes of getting more in the future.

 

Now children these days are getting spoiled on smartphones and tablets, and wouldn't know a good game if it bit them in the ass, let alone how to use a joystick.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Didn't read

[+darryl1970]

Had no idea until today that Will Lee a.k.a. Mr. Hooper from classic Sesame Street was in this Atari commercial for Pac-Man.

 

 

 

 

Now when I think about it, someone at Atari may have seen the arcade and looked at it sideways? Who knows.

pac_man_tilted.jpg

 

 

 

Except that's not what he did. He just threw in that sad repeating pattern that doesn't resemble the arcade at all.

 

Now this is what a sideways arcade maze looks like:

 

 

One thing to keep in mind is that the sideways maze would be EXTREMELY difficult on a VCS. It isn't difficult on a the A8's, because they have bitmap modes.

 

Most of the playfields on the VCS are mirrored, so the right side is a mirror image of the left. Coincidentally, the arcade Pac-Man/Ms Pac-Man games are mirrored too. (Probably more of a programming choice than limitation)

So, the scaled-down Ms Pac-Man mazes were WAY easier, and less resource intensive to implement, than a sideways reproduction on the VCS.

 

Attempting to create a non-symmetrical maze on the VCS would have left even less available for accurate gameplay. I am not an expert on the VCS, but Gary Kitchen explained that was one of the major hurdles for him with Donkey Kong. In his case, he felt the ramped levels were necessary, and he worked magic to make it happen. The ramps on DK took up a lot of cart space.

Edited March 30, 2018 by darryl1970

[+darryl1970]

Changing "monsters" to "ghosts" was an improvement.

 

I can see why one might feel this way, but I truly mourn the accuracy of the game's history.

 

There weren't a lot of adventure type games back in the day. It was exciting to get tot the second and third intermissions, to learn that the enemies were truly flesh and blood. It gave the game one more level of depth.

 

Made sense, since they aren't spiritual and floating through maze walls.

 

The costumes are ghost-like in appearance. Other than that, they really didn't have any characteristics of ghosts.

 

If you grew up AFTER the Pac-Man craze, Atari and the cartoon lost track of that. At least the cartoon referred to them as, "ghost monsters."

 

The Atari had no intermissions. The "Ghosts" were flickery, blocky, white blobs. They didn't have personality. They just kind of floated randomly.

 

Insignificant subtleties may not seem important individually, but things are completely changed when you add them all up. It would be nice to see history preserved as purely as possible.