Jump to content
IGNORED

CRT TV vs Modern TV for retro games


Recommended Posts

 

How much time do you imagine it takes? Space is certainly a legit issue in the realm of CRT discussions (as are hernias!) but time to maintain? I dust my systems once in a while. That's about it.

CRTs do require a fair amount of convergence and color correction as time goes on... it's either that or live with a gradually drifting image. Eventually, you'll probably have to recap them or do some other major repair.

 

I also get the impression that "time to maintain" also includes seeking out, bringing home, and testing secondhand CRTs. It seems like the people who are CRT fans are trying to make sure their personal supply always contains some extras, because while there are lots of tube TVs in the world, the percentage that are actual quality sets is considerably smaller. For every pristine Trinitron, there are probably 10,000 Philcos with off-center screens.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

How much time do you imagine it takes? Space is certainly a legit issue in the realm of CRT discussions (as are hernias!) but time to maintain? I dust my systems once in a while. That's about it.

 

Besides, you don't need the biggest CRT out there to play games. I wouldn't get anything over 27" because of the weight issue.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have both in my tiny game room (excuse the mess!).

 

NM2GMLWl.jpg

 

I like the CRT (a 25" Samsung), but mine only has composite A/V inputs. I thought about replacing it with a 27" WEGA, but this works well enough for now. The little flat screen is only a 20", and I'd like to upgrade to something a little bigger, but it works for now. It has all sorts of inputs, including HDMI, R/G/B Component, VGA and another RGB port of some sort, which is cool.

 

I also have a 42" Panasonic Viera 1080P plasma that I've hooked up old consoles to before. They look great on that thing and have practically zero lag.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think "authentic" is a nearly-useless word in this context; it makes it sound like it's the best or only way to play. I've found that I definitely prefer playing older games on a CRT, but if you like playing them on a modern TV there's nothing wrong with that.

 

Though I will say that I don't use any of the other things you just listed lmao. I put my old carts/discs in my original console and plug them in either via composite or rca. If I ever get to the point where I'm trying to make my retro games look as HD as possible on a CRT TV, I've defeated the purpose I started with and I'll just go back to modern probably.

There's nothing "HD" about getting a CRT picture that isn't a blurry mess. If anything, you'd be getting close to the picture of arcade cabinets of the period.

 

Your stance would be like saying you're cool with the wailing screech of the built in PC speaker for old 486 stuff. And if you wanted better sound you'd just go back to modern PC gaming.

Edited by keepdreamin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

CRTs do require a fair amount of convergence and color correction as time goes on... it's either that or live with a gradually drifting image. Eventually, you'll probably have to recap them or do some other major repair.

 

I also get the impression that "time to maintain" also includes seeking out, bringing home, and testing secondhand CRTs. It seems like the people who are CRT fans are trying to make sure their personal supply always contains some extras, because while there are lots of tube TVs in the world, the percentage that are actual quality sets is considerably smaller. For every pristine Trinitron, there are probably 10,000 Philcos with off-center screens.

 

Honestly in my case, the second precludes any of the first. I'd have a HELL of a time finding a tech who could work on a CRT in my area, and I am not getting into maintenance menus etc. But that's really not an issue for me, as they are still relatively plentiful around here, for free. I've brought home bad ones...they just go back to the dump the next week. And I have to go to the dump every week anyway.

 

Now...the supply, as you point out, isn't getting more plentiful. So this situation won't last forever. But so far as time spent on maintenance for me right now...it could literally be zero if I didn't hate seeing dust on my shiny Atari bezels. :-D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How much time do you imagine it takes? Space is certainly a legit issue in the realm of CRT discussions (as are hernias!) but time to maintain? I dust my systems once in a while. That's about it.

I have a handful of old systems in the basement. I find that the hardware is aging and brittle, many of my floppies don't even work. So if I want to play on a real system, it would take time to dig out the system, dig out my last CRT TV, hook it up, and play, then pack it all back up when I'm done. So yes it takes a considerable amount of time vs playing on an emulator.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a handful of old systems in the basement. I find that the hardware is aging and brittle, many of my floppies don't even work. So if I want to play on a real system, it would take time to dig out the system, dig out my last CRT TV, hook it up, and play, then pack it all back up when I'm done. So yes it takes a considerable amount of time vs playing on an emulator.

 

Ok....but that's not maintenance IMO....that's a space issue. Again. I get that space is an issue with CRTs and real systems, no way around it.

 

You don't have space to leave that stuff set up (or you just don't want to, also fine). I can sympathize, I certainly didn't use to have space for my set up either.

 

Maintenance to me is, you know, changing the oil on the car, replacing wipers, new tires, etc. Wear issues. Even when consoles have issues such as those (caps, connectors) they'd be more accurately labeled repairs IMO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Besides, you don't need the biggest CRT out there to play games. I wouldn't get anything over 27" because of the weight issue.

 

Yeah, I almost got a 36" Trinitron that someone posted locally until I saw that it weighs something like 175 pounds. Considering that growing up, most of my gaming was done on a 13" TV (sometimes even a small black-and-white TV), I'm perfectly fine with my 27" TV.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok....but that's not maintenance IMO....that's a space issue. Again. I get that space is an issue with CRTs and real systems, no way around it.

 

You don't have space to leave that stuff set up (or you just don't want to, also fine). I can sympathize, I certainly didn't use to have space for my set up either.

 

Maintenance to me is, you know, changing the oil on the car, replacing wipers, new tires, etc. Wear issues. Even when consoles have issues such as those (caps, connectors) they'd be more accurately labeled repairs IMO.

It is maintenance. When I say aging hardware, I mean that the power supply in one thing is flakey, some keys on this computer don't work, joysticks don't work in one direction, trackball doesn't feel right, half my floppies don't boot and I'd need to download replacements. It all takes time and effort to restore, and I have other projects I'd rather work on than refurbishing 30 year old hardware.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is maintenance. When I say aging hardware, I mean that the power supply in one thing is flakey, some keys on this computer don't work, joysticks don't work in one direction, trackball doesn't feel right, half my floppies don't boot and I'd need to download replacements. It all takes time and effort to restore, and I have other projects I'd rather work on than refurbishing 30 year old hardware.

 

Well, you tied the TIME element to the process of getting it out of your basement and putting it back, not janky hardware, but I guess it's tomato-tomatoe anyway. To me, these are largely things that once repaired, they're done. My working joysticks, trackballs, and PSU will likely remain working, if unabused, for years and years and years. So I'd not call them maintenance, but repairs or even replacements.

 

Maintenance to me is ongoing and there I'll admit you're dealing with a different situation than I, as I don't use any media as fragile as floppys. But again, tomato-tomatoe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It seems like the people who are CRT fans are trying to make sure their personal supply always contains some extras, because while there are lots of tube TVs in the world, the percentage that are actual quality sets is considerably smaller. For every pristine Trinitron, there are probably 10,000 Philcos with off-center screens.

 

Sometime around the 1990s (really, almost around the start of that decade) manufacturing of consumer televisions started to shift to an emphasis on overseas production, where Quasars and Zeniths once were produced in North America (and sometimes Mexico), television sets started coming in from Japan, Korea and then China. This was also the start of a trend for brand re-badging which is a major aspect of electronics today. A Sony or Samsung CRT was likely manufactured in the same plant as Orion or Sanyo, and maybe they had a specification for higher quality capacitors or 'luxurious' designs like multi-input with stereo sound and a magnetically shielded subwoofer. While the cheaper budget brand just had one speaker for mono audio, only a/v jacks and a coaxial antenna connection. The tubes that went in either were pretty much all the same and even the 'Trinitron' designation meant nothing because the patents had run out and everyone had since come up with their own variation of the aperture grille.

 

Heck, I've found some Sony sets to be engineered in such a way that they became problematic because they liked to use custom one-off parts while a budget set is cobbled together with more robust, proven chips that are easily replaced. Off-center display? Horizontal hold's gone wacky? That stuff's fixable.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As mentioned, CRTs have pretty much zero lag. I can handle gaming on a modern TV, but it's definitely a plus for CRTs. On that note, maybe I should see what used Guitar Hero and Rock Band parts I can get for older consoles?

 

Though weight and space are real issues -- my CRT is around 36" and it weighs a ton. My dad and I had trouble carrying it from the car, while a modern 50" can be carried with one arm just fine. Also, I know it's going to eventually start breaking down, and the world's CRT supply will start going down. I almost wish somebody would start making lightweight CRT TVs to cater to the retro gaming crowd, but they would probably suck in some way and be really expensive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think we will see a specialty manufacturer of CRTs in a few years when the supply finally dries up. Many are dumped into landfills, left on the curb for bulk trash, or finally die. Demand will eventually overcome supply and someone will step in to fill the void. That being said, I'm sure the prices will easily be higher than most will be willing to shell out.

 

If a no lag converter priced under $100 comes available, then ignore everything I just typed above.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think we will see a specialty manufacturer of CRTs in a few years when the supply finally dries up. Many are dumped into landfills, left on the curb for bulk trash, or finally die. Demand will eventually overcome supply and someone will step in to fill the void. That being said, I'm sure the prices will easily be higher than most will be willing to shell out.

 

If a no lag converter priced under $100 comes available, then ignore everything I just typed above.

Perhaps someday. But I couldn't even give mine away for free, not even to the trash. I had to pay an electronics recycler to take them off my hands. I'd say we're a long way off from when there is actual demand for them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What do you hook your retro consoles into?

 

I haven't had a CRT TV in my house for several years now, so I've been plugging into an HD TV for a while. But I recently bought a huge tube-type from a friend of mine for $20, and it's made a pretty big difference in my opinion. No black bars on the sides, the pixels aren't so sharp, etc.

 

There's something so nice about living in a world where everything is "smart" and then plugging a console without an operating system into a TV without an operating system.

 

What's your opinion? Does the kind of TV really matter to you? Do you prefer HD TVs for retro games?

 

Secret option C: a PC monitor. My TVs all have too much input latency and I can't turn off post-processing on those specific TVs. There are others where you can and that's fine, or whatever. But I got a Viewsonic VA2759-SMH (1 HDMI, 1 VGA input, and one 1/8" stereo audio input for the VGA connection) and one of these S-Video to VGA converter boxes. The box has a switch that lets you jump between 4:3 and 16:9 so your 4:3 consoles look correct on the display, and signal quality is pretty good. I also already owned one of these Monoprice 4x1 HDMI switches and switching between different things like my RasPi3, SNES Classic, and modern consoles is easy. For audio I'm using some Logitech PC speakers plugged into the audio output on the monitor.

 

If you want to use light guns, you're kind of out of luck without a CRT, but if you are at least thinking about a "modern" approach, don't forget about PC monitors.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You'd be surprised. The Trinitrons that can handle component are already being sold as retro gaming TVs and are in the $20-$50 range. Goodwill no longer accepts CRT's, so places where one can find a GOOD CRT are already drying up.

 

I'm surprised you paid someone to take yours away. Curbside bulk trash is monthly around here and a Craigslist ad for a free CRT brings people around within hours.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are two different concepts at play here: "this is the way things were back then" and "this is the best way to do this". The two might mean the same thing to some people, but by no means is that necessary.

 

Yeah that's kind of what I was getting at too. Personally, up until a little while ago it had been years since I gamed at all on a CRT; not since I threw out my Samsung CRT HDTV (yes I had a CRT HDTV) about a decade ago. So I had forgotten what it was like.

 

Then I got a CRT monitor for some old computers I had more or less because I had to, because not all old computers will easily sync with a modern LCD and it actually seemed like the easiest thing to just get an old CRT that supports both analog and digital RGB as well as composite. But when I hooked it back up and started playing, I actually said "whoa!" out loud. I was shocked at how cool it looked. It all came back then and I remember thinking "why did we ever give this up??"

 

Of course now I hook all my old consoles up to that monitor as well.

 

My views on certain things like this have changed over the years too, and I've actually been registered here long enough that somebody could probably dredge up an old post of mine where I might have said the exact opposite. (When I joined here, I still had my last CRT TV and probably was hellbent on giving it up in favor of LCD at the time.)

 

But after going back to CRT for retro gaming, there's just no way anyone could convince me that it's not better. Obviously I am not against digital displays on "authenticity" grounds per se - it's not a philosophical point I'm making, but a practical one. CRT just looks better on older games. It probably doesn't on newer games; I don't think I've tried anything post-PS2 on a CRT, and I remember my PS2 even looking better on LCD. But anything with pixelated graphics and limited color palettes just really gets an added smoothness, depth and "pop" from CRT that would have been intentional on the part of the game designers - I mean that's how they were seeing it too. That might sound like I'm getting into the other side of the argument above ("this is the way things were"), but it's still just about the games looking their best. No developer was testing games on high resolution LCD's back then, so they had no idea and didn't really care how they would look on them. They put all their energy into making games look best on a CRT, and that's why they do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is true.. these consoles simply DO look better on CRT out of the box. Not sure how else to say it. At this point we all know now how a lot of classic console games look in hi-def... and that's nice and blocky :lol: No seriously.. you see every pixel and block and it just ends up looking odd unless you do more work and add some filters or whatnot. I don't "not" play on hidef sets and it's looking like that may soon be the only option for many things, but there is definitely a satisfaction (whether it's imagined or not) that I get playing original hardware + CRT. Just saying.

 

(pic courtesy of Bratwurst)

rcD1hAe.jpg

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

One question will answer that for you. How important are light gun games to you? If not, get an HD modern thing, if so, get a nice CRT.

 

Personally I like the real authentic experience. I use actual carts, not multicarts,ever drive or whatever. I use actual cables, usually av, yes composite existed back then, no the systems often weren't designed to use them. I use actual controllers, and no effin wireless, hell I'd prefer a wired one now, but nobody makes them. And of course an old SD CRT.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is true.. these consoles simply DO look better on CRT out of the box. Not sure how else to say it. At this point we all know now how a lot of classic console games look in hi-def... and that's nice and blocky :lol: No seriously.. you see every pixel and block and it just ends up looking odd unless you do more work and add some filters or whatnot. I don't "not" play on hidef sets and it's looking like that may soon be the only option for many things, but there is definitely a satisfaction (whether it's imagined or not) that I get playing original hardware + CRT. Just saying.

 

(pic courtesy of Bratwurst)

 

I <3 U 2

 

I later modded that same television for scart RGB input:

 

https://imgur.com/a/tduzo

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anyone says you need a CRT for an "authentic" experience is blowing smoke up your arse.

 

This is incredibly simple to break down:

 

-Ok, so your CRT is authentic... but what about those HD retrovision component cables? Did you have those back in the day, or were you using composite? Oh, so there weren't component cables for the Genesis then? Ok..

-I see you've got an Everdrive you've got over there, you have one of those too back in 93? No? Hmmmm

-What about those 8bitdo bluetooth controllers and receivers? You have those? No again huh?

-Hey look a PVM for the authentic experience, did you grow up gaming inside a TV studio with custom BNC cables you found on the internet? You didn't? That's odd.. :?

-etc.

 

So basically when you're telling me that I "need" a CRT you're cherry picking what you consider authentic. :thumbsup:

 

That said, I do have a small CRT for occasional light gun use, but otherwise it sits in a corner unplugged. :lol:

 

I'm used to the fast refresh rates of modern displays. 60hz 240P on a CRT is tolerable, but not ideal. 480i on a CRT? No thanks, you may as well break an onion open in my fa e. Same eye watering grimace.

 

My brain just hurt by reading all the BS what you wrote

 

We're talking about now, Not in 93 or so ....

 

CRT's are authentic when you play Consoles 2600 up to the PS2 on it

 

Don't give me this crap about not being authentic

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

ack, no way. That flicker is a headache, like staring at a fluorescent light bulb that's on its way out. When the DC hit with it's VGA box, it was like a curse had been lifted. I don't know if I said "oh, thank you Sega!" at the time. I like to think I did. :D

 

Any 480i games I play get routed through the xrgb mini's natural mode.

 

"Natural mode"? I'll have to look into that. 480i through my Framemeister looks like a dog took a crap and rubbed it all over my screen. If a different profile can fix that, I'm all for it. On a CRT you get that bouncy look, but it's super sharp in my eyes at least.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...