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Which system do you think has been pushed the most?


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#51 Osgeld ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 3, 2017 10:46 PM

better graphics! still 2 buttons =(



#52 Austin OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 3, 2017 11:06 PM

better graphics! still 2 buttons =(

 

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#53 save2600 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Dec 4, 2017 12:39 PM

I have a few of those Ave6 pads and use them for all my PC Engine/TG-16 gaming. Haven't touched the regular 2 button since. ;)

#54 DJ Clae OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 5, 2017 1:59 PM

Sure PC Engine can do that. And what size card were they planning to release this on in 1992? The realities of the game market at the time matter.

#55 CatPix OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 5, 2017 8:37 PM

In Japan, by 1992, the CD-ROM² was the main media for the PC-Engine. In fact, early Pc-Engine fans sent letters to NEC-Hudson to beg them to keep released Hu-Card so they could use their older systems and use the portable PC-Engine.

This is one of the reason they released SFII on Hu-Card, so people could use it on portable systems. Else, it would have certainly bene released on CD-ROM.

It's estimated than in 1996, about half of the owners of a Pc-Engine in Japan were owning a CD-ROM² system of one form or another, add-on or Duo system.

 

Which is certainly the definitive best-selling add-on for any system ever.


Edited by CatPix, Tue Dec 5, 2017 8:38 PM.


#56 Bill Loguidice OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 5, 2017 8:43 PM

In Japan, by 1992, the CD-ROM² was the main media for the PC-Engine. In fact, early Pc-Engine fans sent letters to NEC-Hudson to beg them to keep released Hu-Card so they could use their older systems and use the portable PC-Engine.
This is one of the reason they released SFII on Hu-Card, so people could use it on portable systems. Else, it would have certainly bene released on CD-ROM.
It's estimated than in 1996, about half of the owners of a Pc-Engine in Japan were owning a CD-ROM² system of one form or another, add-on or Duo system.
 
Which is certainly the definitive best-selling add-on for any system ever.


Wouldn't that be Kinect for Xbox 360?

#57 CatPix OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 5, 2017 10:21 PM

It is?

I only know one people that have one :D

 

Well I looked, and while it was successfull, it sold 24 millions, on 85 millions of Xbox360 sold, so, not quite "half of the system equipped".

But on brute numbers, it's probably the best-selling one.



#58 Austin OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 6, 2017 1:21 AM

But on brute numbers, it's probably the best-selling one.

 

I think that was the point.



#59 CatPix OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 6, 2017 7:23 AM

Yeah, but the era isn't the same.

The PC-Engine selling 4 millions in Japan was a success; today that wold be... the Wii U :D

You can enjoy the whole Xbox 360 without a Kinect.

You cannot enjoy the PC-Engine without the CD-ROM addon and the associated game library, and this is certainly a better proof of the importance of an add-on than brute numbers.



#60 Bill Loguidice OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 6, 2017 9:13 AM

You can enjoy the whole Xbox 360 without a Kinect.

You cannot enjoy the PC-Engine without the CD-ROM addon and the associated game library, and this is certainly a better proof of the importance of an add-on than brute numbers.

 

That's a stretch. There are tons of fantastic Hu-Cards. An add-on is still an add-on.



#61 CatPix OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 6, 2017 10:17 AM

I didn't said that.
Just that not getting the Kinect for the Xbox360 isn't a big issue to enjoy the library of the Xbox 360, but that you're missing great games by mising the CD-ROM² attachment.
Unless you only consider the Turbografx-16, of course.
 
But you cannot seriously pass on the CD-ROM² if you like the PC-Engine.


#62 Schizophretard OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 6, 2017 10:27 AM

I thought the Kinect was more like a motion detecting controller than an add-on?



#63 Bill Loguidice OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 6, 2017 10:42 AM

I thought the Kinect was more like a motion detecting controller than an add-on?

 

It recognized motion, depth, and sound from multiple sources. You could use it to control the operating system/menu in a completely different manner with motion or voice. It functions and integrates differently from a typical controller. However, the point is well taken. You can certainly argue it was just a fancy controller, despite the blurring of the concept with the inclusion of vision and audio input.



#64 Bill Loguidice OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 6, 2017 10:46 AM

 

I didn't said that.
Just that not getting the Kinect for the Xbox360 isn't a big issue to enjoy the library of the Xbox 360, but that you're missing great games by mising the CD-ROM² attachment.
Unless you only consider the Turbografx-16, of course.
 
But you cannot seriously pass on the CD-ROM² if you like the PC-Engine.

 

 

There are lots of things modern users of these types of vintage systems don't want to pass on that were optional back in the day, but the point stands that it's not a requirement for the core experience. The core experience is HuCards. With that said, NEC definitely did a great job squeezing every ounce of performance out of what started out as a capable, yet modest system. Seven years is nothing to sneeze at, and in that time, they really released some amazing stuff.



#65 Flojomojo OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 6, 2017 11:37 AM

I thought the Kinect was more like a motion detecting controller than an add-on?

 

I seem to recall them marketing it as a "whole new system." There were exceptions, but most games that supported Kinect *required* it, like the Super Action Controller or Driving Module games for ColecoVision. 

 

As for the NEC system, just give me Bonk and Devil's Crush and I'll be happy. I don't need that dinosaur of a CD attachment. 



#66 Swami OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 6, 2017 12:36 PM

I thought the Kinect was more like a motion detecting controller than an add-on?

I think it is a controller as much as the WiiMote, it was apparently just a lot harder to support; Not that game support for the Wiimote was anything to write home about. If it had really taken off with the third party manufacturers, it would have been thought of as more integral and as a requirement. Microsoft did this half-a$$ed with the Kinect 1.0. They tried in earnest with the XBox One and Kinect 2.0 by putting the cart before the horse, but that did not work well at all for them.



#67 CatPix OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 6, 2017 2:20 PM

 

 were optional back in the day, but the point stands that it's not a requirement for the core experience.

 

It is.

 

Playing PC-Engine without the CD-ROM would be like playing a PS4/Xbone without downloadable games and online gaming. It does work, but it's not the complete experience.

It's the reason why Nec made the Duo, rather than keeping the Coregrafx+ CD-ROM attachment couple to save money.

There are excellent games on Hu-card for sure, and that stand true until the very last Hu-Card released (in 1998 or 1999 I think) but there are several games that are integral part of the PC-Engine that are only on CD-ROM; one would think immediately of Castlevania X, but there is also the Ys games, Wonder Boy III, Dungeon Explorer II, etc...

Hardly anyone I know that liek the PC-Engine pretend that they can pass on the CD-ROM.

not getting the real thing because of the reliability issue and price? Sure. But plain passing on it and not even try on emulation? haven't heard of, yet.



#68 Bill Loguidice OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 6, 2017 2:33 PM

 

It is.

 

Playing PC-Engine without the CD-ROM would be like playing a PS4/Xbone without downloadable games and online gaming. It does work, but it's not the complete experience.

It's the reason why Nec made the Duo, rather than keeping the Coregrafx+ CD-ROM attachment couple to save money.

There are excellent games on Hu-card for sure, and that stand true until the very last Hu-Card released (in 1998 or 1999 I think) but there are several games that are integral part of the PC-Engine that are only on CD-ROM; one would think immediately of Castlevania X, but there is also the Ys games, Wonder Boy III, Dungeon Explorer II, etc...

Hardly anyone I know that liek the PC-Engine pretend that they can pass on the CD-ROM.

not getting the real thing because of the reliability issue and price? Sure. But plain passing on it and not even try on emulation? haven't heard of, yet.

 

I still don't get what you're arguing here. Just because it was integrated eventually, doesn't mean much for the purposes of this discussion. There was something like a dozen different PC Engine-related systems, including the SuperGrafx and PC Engine GT/Turbo Express. Are you saying the latter group is not getting the real PC Engine experience because you can't play CD games on the portable? What about the Sega CDX or JVC X-Eye? Does that mean that the Sega CD was integral to the Sega Genesis experience? An add-on is an add-on, period.

 

And yes, as I've stated many times, there's no reason for a modern user of one of these vintage videogame or computer platforms not to have the full experience. It doesn't change what something is or isn't.



#69 high voltage ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 6, 2017 3:08 PM

NES, I always push it of my desk



#70 Schizophretard OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 7, 2017 5:43 AM

 

It recognized motion, depth, and sound from multiple sources. You could use it to control the operating system/menu in a completely different manner with motion or voice. It functions and integrates differently from a typical controller. However, the point is well taken. You can certainly argue it was just a fancy controller, despite the blurring of the concept with the inclusion of vision and audio input.

 

I didn't get to that point yet to even be taken because I was seriously asking out of ignorance. I haven't experienced the Kinect or XBOX 360. So, when you referred to it as an add-on I thought I was misunderstanding how it functioned because it gave me the impression that it somehow increased it capabilities like a SEGA CD or something. Anyway, since I wasn't misunderstanding to me it seems more in the controller/accessory category than the add-on category. I would probably put a PS2 memory card more in the add-on category than a Kinect because it adds a capability to the games that isn't already on the discs or in the machine which is adding the ability for games to save which in more earlier systems would have been in the carts. In other words, I think of an add-on as some kind of upgrade to the system.



#71 Bill Loguidice OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 7, 2017 7:38 AM

 

I didn't get to that point yet to even be taken because I was seriously asking out of ignorance. I haven't experienced the Kinect or XBOX 360. So, when you referred to it as an add-on I thought I was misunderstanding how it functioned because it gave me the impression that it somehow increased it capabilities like a SEGA CD or something. Anyway, since I wasn't misunderstanding to me it seems more in the controller/accessory category than the add-on category. I would probably put a PS2 memory card more in the add-on category than a Kinect because it adds a capability to the games that isn't already on the discs or in the machine which is adding the ability for games to save which in more earlier systems would have been in the carts. In other words, I think of an add-on as some kind of upgrade to the system.

 

Again, blurred lines. Memory card saving is optional. Integrating Kinect support was either optional or a requirement, depending upon the game. It gave the console new capabilities, hence why it can be classified as an add-on. If we restrict our definition to add-ons/accessories that augment RAM or processing power - which is fine - then that eliminates a whole range of such things. Clarity is not a bad thing here.



#72 Flojomojo OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 7, 2017 10:47 AM

I could see how one could argue that releasing a bunch of expensive add-ons in the highly competitive marketplace would qualify as "pushing the system the most." 

 

Nobody would bother making a Game Genie for the Atari Jaguar, for example. 

 

I think these guys win by this definition:

 

Atari VCS: many custom controllers, Supercharger. Many plug-n-play re-creations. 

Intellivision, Odyssey 2: Voice module

ColecoVision: System changer, driving controller, roller controller, Super Action controllers

Sega Genesis: Power Base Converter, Sega CD, 32X, Activator, Menacer, Game Genie, Sega Channel, Mega CD Karaoke ... in addition to being cloned many different ways



#73 Jess Ragan OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 7, 2017 3:03 PM

The Atari 2600 gets my vote, with the Intellivision close behind. The 2600 in particular was never supposed to be more than an evolution of the Pong units Atari had been selling, with a small amount of RAM and no video memory... everything had to be drawn on the fly. Yet despite that, the 2600 was supported through the 1970s, 1980s, and even a tiny bit of the 1990s, playing games that probably should have been well beyond its grasp. Commando! Ikari Warriors! Fatal Run! Solaris! Midnight Magic! Even Secret Quest, which was the 2600's answer to The Legend of Zelda.

 

The machine's quirky hardware and the ways developers took advantage of it was a big reason it was supported for so many years. It just seems to hold up better than its late 1970s contemporaries. The colorful layered graphics of the 2600 seem more subtle and clever than what you'd find on the Intellivision, the Astrocade, or the Odyssey2.

 

Intellivision games don't look great in 2017, but you have to give the system props for the complexity of its games. Even early ones like B-17 Bomber and Utopia have loads of depth, more than what you might find in the early NES library.



#74 Bill Loguidice OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 7, 2017 3:35 PM

The Atari 2600 gets my vote, with the Intellivision close behind. The 2600 in particular was never supposed to be more than an evolution of the Pong units Atari had been selling, with a small amount of RAM and no video memory... everything had to be drawn on the fly. Yet despite that, the 2600 was supported through the 1970s, 1980s, and even a tiny bit of the 1990s, playing games that probably should have been well beyond its grasp. Commando! Ikari Warriors! Fatal Run! Solaris! Midnight Magic! Even Secret Quest, which was the 2600's answer to The Legend of Zelda.

 

The machine's quirky hardware and the ways developers took advantage of it was a big reason it was supported for so many years. It just seems to hold up better than its late 1970s contemporaries. The colorful layered graphics of the 2600 seem more subtle and clever than what you'd find on the Intellivision, the Astrocade, or the Odyssey2.

 

Intellivision games don't look great in 2017, but you have to give the system props for the complexity of its games. Even early ones like B-17 Bomber and Utopia have loads of depth, more than what you might find in the early NES library.

 

The 2600 definitely has to be in any discussion like this simply because of its amazing longevity as a platform:

 

Apple II: 1977 – 1993 (16 years)
Atari 2600: 1977 - 1992 (15 years)
TRS-80 Model x: 1977 – 1991 (14 years)
NIntendo Gameboy: 1989 - 2003 (14 years)
Atari 8-bit: 1979 – 1992 (13 years)
Nintendo SNES: 1990 - 2003 (13 years)
Sony PS2: 2000 - 2013 (13 years)
Commodore 64: 1982 – 1994 (12 years)
Sony PS1: 1994 - 2006 (12 years)
Mattel Intellivision: 1979 - 1990 (11 years)
TRS-80 Color Computer: 1980 – 1991 (11 years)
Sega Genesis: 1988 - 1999 (11 years)
Microsoft Xbox 360: 2005 - 2016 (11 years)
Sony PS3: 2006 - 2017 (11 years)
ZX Spectrum: 1982 – 1992 (10 years)
Nintendo Famicom/NES: 1983 - 2003 (10 years)
Sega Mark III/SMS: 1985 - 1995 (10 years; date of production for last SMS system in Brazil with cartridge port?)
Nintendo DS: 2004 - 2014 (10 years)

 

(any that I missed?)

 

Special mentions, but ones I personally disqualify because of their dramatic architectural and OS changes through the years:
 
IBM PC and Compatibles: 1981 – Present (36 years and counting)
Apple Macintosh: 1984 – Present (33 years and counting)
 
Of that non-special mention group, I'd say on the console side the 2600 biggest had the biggest jump in quality from its launch software to its final years of titles.


#75 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 7, 2017 4:13 PM

 

I seem to recall them marketing it as a "whole new system." There were exceptions, but most games that supported Kinect *required* it, like the Super Action Controller or Driving Module games for ColecoVision. 

 

As for the NEC system, just give me Bonk and Devil's Crush and I'll be happy. I don't need that dinosaur of a CD attachment. 

 

Everybody markets everything as a "whole new" or "the all new" [insert consumer product here].. And when I fart there's a whole new atmosphere in my room!

 

As far as attachments go. I tended to dislike those system-smothering CD attachments. Aesthetically they were ugly no matter how 90's-melted "aero" they were. They were clumsy, big, obnoxious, unreliable, and expensive.

 

About as big and awkward I'd go is the VCS' SuperCharger or ColecoVision's VCS adapter. Ehh, through in the Intellivoice module too. Anything bigger and I start to dislike it.






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