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Upgrade Atari 800XL Basic to revision C

basic rom internal 800XL atari

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#1 ColorComputerStore OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:22 PM

Hello,

 

I picked up an Atari 800XL a few months back and will soon start to enjoy it. I understand that they came with BASIC revision B and later Atari models had a less buggy version called revision C. To upgrade the 800XL, are the two options (1) buy a revision C cartridge or (2) upgrade the BASIC ROM?

 

For option 2, would I just buy something like this off of eBay?

https://www.ebay.com...7?ul_noapp=true

 

I do have a EPROM burner so is another option to find revision C online and burn it to EPROM?

 

In either case, is it a matter of popping out revision B ROM and putting in revision C? (assuming the ROMs are socketed.)

 

Thanks

 

 



#2 slx OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:30 PM

All methods should work.

If you dont find the Rev. C ROM theres an article on how to patch B to C.

http://www.atarimaga...cconverter.html

#3 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:03 PM

burn it to rom and swap it up.. that's the best way to go about it... but you could cannibalize the rev c cart to do so.. that leave things looking nice and official inside the Atari :)



#4 zzip OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:57 PM

Hello,

 

I picked up an Atari 800XL a few months back and will soon start to enjoy it. I understand that they came with BASIC revision B and later Atari models had a less buggy version called revision C. To upgrade the 800XL, are the two options (1) buy a revision C cartridge or (2) upgrade the BASIC ROM?

 

For option 2, would I just buy something like this off of eBay?

https://www.ebay.com...7?ul_noapp=true

 

I do have a EPROM burner so is another option to find revision C online and burn it to EPROM?

 

In either case, is it a matter of popping out revision B ROM and putting in revision C? (assuming the ROMs are socketed.)

 

Thanks

 

 

 

Depends what you want Basic for, do you plan on programming?   IIRC, the worst bug in Rev B was that it would sometimes freeze while you were typing in programs.   If you aren't typing in programs, then B wasn't all that bad.   But if you are planning on doing Basic programming, you may want to check out one of the improved 3rd party basics


Edited by zzip, Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:57 PM.


#5 BillC OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:18 PM

 

Depends what you want Basic for, do you plan on programming?   IIRC, the worst bug in Rev B was that it would sometimes freeze while you were typing in programs.   If you aren't typing in programs, then B wasn't all that bad.   But if you are planning on doing Basic programming, you may want to check out one of the improved 3rd party basics

IIRC it was Rev.A(cartridge) that would lock-up. Rev.B added some extra bytes to the program every time it was saved, the extra bytes could be removed by using LIST to write the file to disk, then using ENTER to reload it.



#6 kheller2 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:32 PM

A and B would lockup.  B was worse.

B also make your programs grow in size when saving/loading.



#7 Nezgar OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:37 PM

While you're at it, burn extra Rev. C eproms and replace the ROM in the old Atari Basic carts too :D

 

Learning how to use the eprom burner I got from DropCheck has been on my to-do list for a long time.. I have lots of 600XL's and 800XL's that would be an easy chip swap upgrade.



#8 BillC OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:31 PM

While you're at it, burn extra Rev. C eproms and replace the ROM in the old Atari Basic carts too :D

 

Learning how to use the eprom burner I got from DropCheck has been on my to-do list for a long time.. I have lots of 600XL's and 800XL's that would be an easy chip swap upgrade.

It wouldn't just be a chip swap in the Rev.A BASIC cartridge, its PCB used 2-4k 24-pin ROM chips.

 

I have done it using a 16k EPROM cartridge PCB, disabling a trace to the edge connector as per the post linked below to make it only 8k.

http://atariage.com/...-1#entry2223087



#9 ColorComputerStore OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:42 PM

 

Depends what you want Basic for, do you plan on programming?   IIRC, the worst bug in Rev B was that it would sometimes freeze while you were typing in programs.   If you aren't typing in programs, then B wasn't all that bad.   But if you are planning on doing Basic programming, you may want to check out one of the improved 3rd party basics

 

 

Yes, I plan to program.

 

Cheers



#10 ColorComputerStore OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:44 PM

If I burn an Eprom, what modern Eprom is recommended? I have a TL866A Eprom programmer.

 

As for the cartridge route. The C version is the one with the silver label?

 

Thanks



#11 SoundGammon ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:49 PM

Compute magazine had a program that would copy basic in to ram, load a patch that would turn it into Rev. C! 



#12 tep392 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:49 PM

My 800XL came with Rev C.  Check your machine before you go thru the effort to swap out roms.  This link will tell you how.

http://atariage.com/...e/#entry3114448



#13 ACML OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:13 PM

Just buy the chip on eBay

https://www.ebay.com...msAAOSw7ehXRtWU

It's cheap and is OEM!!



#14 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:24 PM

good place to deal with and to be honest good prices and sometime you can make good deal with them... better place to get stuff. and yes mostly cheaper with shipping than the places here in the states... they have a websites too...


Edited by _The Doctor__, Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:25 PM.


#15 ColorComputerStore OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:37 PM

Just buy the chip on eBay

https://www.ebay.com...msAAOSw7ehXRtWU

It's cheap and is OEM!!

 

 

Actually, I saw that and it was one reason that got me to post. I had asked the seller if it is just a matter of plugging the chip into the internal ROM socket and the seller said they didn't know. Kinda made me nervous that they didn't know.

 

Thanks



#16 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:39 PM

I you have the socket it fits in it will work... not all machines are socketed... and some pretty weird stuff is out in the wild...



#17 ACML OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:57 PM

 

 

Actually, I saw that and it was one reason that got me to post. I had asked the seller if it is just a matter of plugging the chip into the internal ROM socket and the seller said they didn't know. Kinda made me nervous that they didn't know.

 

Thanks

It's a 24 pin ROM, just like the one already in there.  If your mobo has sockets, it's plug it in and you're off.  Easy!



#18 1050 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:10 AM

If I burn an Eprom, what modern Eprom is recommended? I have a TL866A Eprom programmer.
 
As for the cartridge route. The C version is the one with the silver label?

Cartridge route you refer to is null and void being
false flag fake news as in you can't get there
from here.

Atari used extra special custom chips for all their
game cartridges with odd pin outs and chip select
polarities such that a standard eprom equivalent
doesn't exist. So you can't just plug and play.

On purpose. Think about the piracy that would
have existed if this hole were not plugged solid.

2364 at 300ns speed is the eprom used there, due
to lack of popularity you may find that finding
an eprom burner that does 2364 eproms may be a
challenge. But if you have that and you have the
code and you can find those eproms, then it's a
done deal.

Otherwise you can purchase an adapter board that
converts a standard 2764 over to 2364 pinout and
use that to sport a 2764 on your XL/XE mother
board.
http://store.go4retr...m/2364-adapter/

I've done this manually using a 2nd stacked
socket but it is a hack job and it looks like a
hack job. And that part can't be fixed.

The 23xx adapter also available there might be
made to work for Atari game cartridge eprom if
it were a SINGLE 8k chip, but the vast majority
of game cartridges are using two 4k chips which
don't fit the 2364 pin wise to begin with.

Cartridge route then really doesn't exist,
takeaway is it's not plug and play precisely
because Atari made it that way on purpose.

eBay guy is just being honest, he's never
done it so he wouldn't know but that's the
exact chip you need and it just drops in
there and works.

#19 scotty OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:55 AM

Use TurboBasic or Basic XL/XE.  No reason for generic Atari basic any more.


Edited by scotty, Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:56 AM.


#20 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:19 AM

so why couldn't he dump the rev c rom and burn it to an eprom and put it in his machine exactly? Or get a rom floating about the net? and do the same.... In any event I still suggest the Atari Freak route... it will work... it will be very clean and cheapest..

as for using the cartridge ...rev c came on cart and evryone can plug in a cartridge.. you loose the cartridge port for anything else though... and I have put a prom in a generic cart with basic c burned to it... but again the best most beautiful way is to buy the chip and put it in to the mobo


Edited by _The Doctor__, Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:29 AM.


#21 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:33 AM

It wouldn't just be a chip swap in the Rev.A BASIC cartridge, its PCB used 2-4k 24-pin ROM chips.

 

I have done it using a 16k EPROM cartridge PCB, disabling a trace to the edge connector as per the post linked below to make it only 8k.

http://atariage.com/...-1#entry2223087

thanks Bill, that's the way to take those useless rev a carts and make them useful, well the cart shell anyway. With all these new old stock and ancient hoards coming to the surface it was time to bring the info back to light.


Edited by _The Doctor__, Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:43 AM.


#22 ColorComputerStore OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:31 PM

Use TurboBasic or Basic XL/XE.  No reason for generic Atari basic any more.

 

Can you gives me links that would expand my knowledge on those two? I've never used an Atari so I'm not up to speed on the various BASICs. I assume with the two you recommended, the downside is only people with said BASICs can use programs written with them? Or do they compile to machine code?

 

Thanks



#23 Philsan ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:38 PM

 

Can you gives me links that would expand my knowledge on those two? I've never used an Atari so I'm not up to speed on the various BASICs. I assume with the two you recommended, the downside is only people with said BASICs can use programs written with them? Or do they compile to machine code?

 

Thanks

Turbo-Basic XL was released by Frank Ostrowski in 1985, it's compatible with Atari Basic but faster, compilable and with additional commands.

At the end of this post you can find language and two manuals: http://atariage.com/...ic-for-newbies/



#24 rdea6 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:08 PM

Most of the knowledge base can be found at http://seriouscomput...uage.basic.htm#

 

Turbo Basic and Basic XL/XE can except all of the Atari Basic syntax, but Atari Basic can not except any of the added improvements of TBXL or BASIC XL/XE.

Atari basic can be compiled with MMG basic compiler or ABC datasoft compiler.  Turbobasic also has a linker and runtime to combine source code to self loading file (com, or xex, or ANY extension you want to use. 



#25 Level42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:36 AM

Yes, I plan to program.
 
Cheers

Forget Atari Basic, get Tubobasic XL.
  • slx likes this





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