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Looks like a scam to me?


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#51 mytekcontrols OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:05 PM

And let the games begin  ;) . I think this has simply turned into another one of those "Let's agree to disagree" type of threads that we've all seen on AA many, many times.

 

   :roll:  :sleep:

 

But I'm human, and I simply can't resist...

 

I really do like the idea of this 70 in one game cart, but I also like my Uno cart even better, since I can put what games I want on it, and even swap out microSD cards dedicated to different categories. What would be great is if Nir eventually offers his customized 5200 games in a binary form so that those can then be added to someone's personal collection. And as such he does deserve to charge money for those customization's if he so pleases, since that was a considerable amount of time and work to do so.

 

BTW, has anyone ever copied a record, a CD, an MP3, a VHS or DVD movie, and then either gave that to someone else or let someone listen or view it? All of those would be considered illegal. Anyone ever jaywalk? That too is illegal. I could go on, but I think the point has been made. I think I can say with a high degree of certainty that everyone without a doubt has done something illegal. That is life, and not all laws are even good, and/or make sense.

 

- Michael



#52 tep392 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:21 PM

I think all of this is just arguing for the sake of arguing, and we really have too much of that on this forum already.  My opinion is that if you like what Nir is selling, buy it. If you don't, don't buy it.  Why the need to argue?



#53 flashjazzcat ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:26 PM

I just think that if you use the word "Methinks" or any variation thereof in a new topic, you've already lost the argument. :)



#54 ProWizard OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:42 PM

When I created "ANG Greatest Hits" compilation I asked all former publishers for their permission.

 

To state something positive here: I actually love that compilation disk. The last days I have been playing that game on the backside, which is actually AWESOME. I did not know that game before. 

 

For the people who are curious: it is called Thinx and it is a logical game, which is just different than usually seen. 

 

To be more ontopic. Like I wrote before, I do not care this much. I prefer original software for my own use. I buy all my digital music in the iTunes store. Not because I want to be the good person, but simply because I'm lazy and the iTunes store is very convenient. For the same reason I buy my software for my Macbook in the App-store. It's simple. It's fast. And I believe (hope) that it is reliable too.

 

And seriously, most of the titles I have in my a8 library are once bought and paid by me. I love original software. Again not because I want to be a good person, but I love the colorful disk and tape sleeves. I love the fabulous boxes and all the goodies inside (I think of Dungeon Hunt, or that superb box of Tecno Ninja). I have a lot of the Mirage / ANG releases and those disk sleeves were amazing (I think of Wloczykij (probably spelled wrong) or The Chaos Music Composer). And in my closet there is a big row of colorful tapes (like The Extirpator, Dizzy Dice, Red Max, Mr. Dig). I also love to support a8 projects like The Last Word. Seriously: I enjoy the software more, because I paid for it. It's all psychological.

 

I personally am surprised that people are so sensitive on this subject. Why does it feel like an argument? Isn't this the main reason for a forum? Exchange opinions? If you don't want to join the discussion, why bother? I do not dictate other people what to think or feel about this, I only share my astonishment about the double standards I see here. If I type the word ALL I do not mean literally ALL, but I mean all the people applicable; or better said all with quotes -> "all" ...

 

If I did hurt someone's feelings, or if someone felt 'addressed' by me or my words: I apologize. I did not want to attack anyone. 

 

By the way: I personally would be way to 'anxious' to sell a cart like the one discussed in this thread. I would not want to burn my fingers on such a project. Again not because of a certain moral, but simply because I would be scared that someone would sue me for breaking any ©opyright law. 

 

Anyway, let's move on. I am going to fire up Thinx again. 'You' (yes look at the quotes) should 'all' give it a try too. You'll love it. By the way, if I am correct the author of that particular game declared Thinx as P.D. but I can be wrong here.



#55 tep392 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:55 PM

I'm not convinced there is really a double standard.  Most people I've seen around here are consistent with their opinion, one way or the other, on these types of products.  But the specifics are important and might affect how one reacts to a given situation.  If you really want a discussion on why someone might support this cart by Nir by not support kjmann, you would need to specify the kjmann cart.  He sold a lot of carts that no one had any problems with.



#56 ndary OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:00 PM

ACML post was legit, when he asked about a cartridge that he never heard before, the cartridge or this project was never advertised and Jeff Facebook post was not my idea.. (I did not even participated in any of the comments there)

 

Like I stated in an earlier post, this cart was born from a special request of a specific person. He wanted to put all ATARI 5200 games into one cartridge that can be played instantly on the ATARI 8BIT computer

 

Out of the 80ies known cartridges that where done for the ATARI 5200 console 30 years ago.., 70 of them made it to this multicart in the deadline I set for this task.. and the remaining 10 where left for a later date (but I doubt that I will go back to continue doing this), and I did not convert any of the new 5200 homebrews games that where recently written for the console...

 

Ely & SignGuy81  post are also legit, I do not own the rights to any of the original or prototype ATARI 5200 GAMES, nor modifying their code to make them run on the ATARI 8bit machine makes them mine.

 

Only 5 carts where made, four of them where given away and the remaining one I put for sale on eBay at the cost of making it.  This Auction was ended by me with no sale and the last cart was given today to a friend at no cost. I had no intention to violate any laws,  no more carts will be made.

 

If anyone wants to play the 5200 games you can do it on the PC  using an emulator (Altira or Atari800win), these emulators support the 5200 console emulation. anyone can google the ATARI 5200 games and can find the 5200 roms to download. (do not forget to switch the emulator to ATARI 5200 for the roms to load)

 

I consider this case closed as I already moved on to do other interesting projects on my ATARI 8bit computer


Edited by ndary, Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:01 PM.


#57 ProWizard OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:13 PM

It really pisses me off when some Captain Obvious comes in talking about copyright, which has been debated in thousands of posts already, and causes a cool project like this to be discontinued.

 

Hey tep392. You are quite clear in this. I still am surprised you respond quite 'bitten by the bee' when I ask my question about double standard. You also ask me to be more specific. 

 

I'm not seeking for trouble, and I really don't care. But since you express your interest, read this thread:

http://atariage.com/...is game group

 

In that thread you express your own concerns about the fact that you did a conversion of Battlezone and MarioBros and KJMANN, without letting you know that he was going to do that, or without letting customers know that it is a reproduction, offered your conversions for sale on a Atlantis Games Group branded cart.

 

I can completely follow you there, but I do not understand why you are writing about 'Captain Obvious' and 'causing a cool project like this to be continued' ... 


Edited by ProWizard, Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:14 PM.


#58 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:21 PM

The difference is right there,... 

 

KJ took others work remade it and was on a non copying it's mine pay me- copyright vendetta(think about that), he made it clear it was all about his game his work his ip,  please search the forums as I oversimplify... Nir was not doing that.. he was selling the cartridge hardware.. made no claims to the software at all other than he did some coding.... this is nothing like how KJ went about it as an overarching hot mess of hypocrisy and often threatening tone or otherwise litigious crapfests.   but again this is generalized simplified observations.... the fine toothed comb crew can now go ape-sh*t over what I have said...

 

Nir I really wish for you to complete the quest, your so d*mn close....    I am not above exchanging gifts for Christmas!   What would Nir want for Christmas? perhaps some crisp paper of value?  I know I'd love a gift of hardware such as I have seen recently :) ;)


Edited by _The Doctor__, Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:26 PM.


#59 ProWizard OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:28 PM

The difference is right there,... 

 

KJ took others work remade it and was on a non copying copyright vendetta(think about that), please search the forums as I oversimplify... Nir was not doing that.. he was selling the cartridge hardware.. made no claims to the software at all other than he did some coding.... this is nothing like how KJ went about it as an overarching hot mess of hypocrisy and often threatening tone or otherwise litigious crapfests.   but again this is generalized simplified observations.... the fine toothed comb crew can now go ape-sh*t over what I have said...

 

Nir I really wish for you to complete the quest, your so d*mn close....    I am not above exchanging gifts for Christmas!   What would Nir want for Christmas? perhaps some crisp paper of value?  I know I'd love a give of hardware such as I have seen recently :) ;)

 

Hey Doctor! You are entirely right about what you write about KJMANN. And like I write now for the I don't know how many times again, I do not care. But I simply asked a question, and that triggered tep392. And I did not understand that.

 

I'm totally fine with the cart Nir tried to sell. And I also had a lot of trouble with the things KJMANN did. So far nothing new.

 

But for unknown customers (like the topic starter) the auction ALSO was rising questions. It was not clear to him whether it was an original product or a reproduction. Questions are asked, and people responded upset by the fact that now this cool project was taken down. So they actually tried to say: hey, don't ask any critical questions. How dare you to ask! 

 

And I still have my doubts about that attitude. In scenario #1 it seems to be legit to ask questions. And in scenario #2 it seems not. 



#60 tep392 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:32 PM

 

Hey tep392. You are quite clear in this. I still am surprised you respond quite 'bitten by the bee' when I ask my question about double standard. You also ask me to be more specific. 

 

I'm not seeking for trouble, and I really don't care. But since you express your interest, read this thread:

http://atariage.com/...is game group

 

In that thread you express your own concerns about the fact that you did a conversion of Battlezone and MarioBros and KJMANN, without letting you know that he was going to do that, or without letting customers know that it is a reproduction, offered your conversions for sale on a Atlantis Games Group branded cart.

 

I can completely follow you there, but I do not understand why you are writing about 'Captain Obvious' and 'causing a cool project like this to be continued' ... 

I'm not going to go back and read that but I remember what happened.  kjmann was selling reproductions without any indication that the were not original.  Some people don't care about selling copies of existing games and some do but most agree that that a copy had better be indicated as such.  He was selling them on ebay without any indication they weren't original.  I just don't like to see people spending their hard earned money on something that isn't what they think it is.  Now if you look at his sales of Donkey Kong Arcade, I never had any problem with that because it was his work.  My general stance is that when someone supports our old machines by producing software, either original or derived from old originals, they should be given the respect of being asked if they work can be sold or not.  Doing otherwise discourages this work.  And getting into these discussions is just as discouraging, as we see is the case with Nir.

 

I wasn't referring to you as captain obvious.  I was talking about the guy that brought up the legality of the cart in the first place which started this nonsense and led to the cart being taken off sale.



#61 Level42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:36 PM

Best sells illegal cartridges of unreleased "prototype" games and I hear nobody about it.....


The files are freely available on the internet, he uses an old cartridge or maybe empty one....smacks a inkjet printed paper label on it and sells it for crazy money,

Look....40 sold......no way in the world Atari made 40 prototype cartridges.....and I don't really think they would care to label them....let alone the fact that there weren't any inkjet printers around in the early 80s.

And this is not the only game he does this with. And people here cry about Nir offering something REALLY unique ? Can't believe it.

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Edited by Level42, Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:54 PM.


#62 ProWizard OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:37 PM

I'm not going to go back and read that but I remember what happened.  kjmann was selling reproductions without any indication that the were not original.  Some people don't care about selling copies of existing games and some do but most agree that that a copy had better be indicated as such.  He was selling them on ebay without any indication they weren't original.  I just don't like to see people spending their hard earned money on something that isn't what they think it is.  Now if you look at his sales of Donkey Kong Arcade, I never had any problem with that because it was his work.  My general stance is that when someone supports our old machines by producing software, either original or derived from old originals, they should be given the respect of being asked if they work can be sold or not.  Doing otherwise discourages this work.  And getting into these discussions is just as discouraging, as we see is the case with Nir.

 

I wasn't referring to you as captain obvious.  I was talking about the guy that brought up the legality of the cart in the first place which started this nonsense and led to the cart being taken off sale.

 

Thanks for the clear up. That is highly appreciated! I am not into seeking trouble or flaming. I honestly wanted to discuss the point of views. 



#63 tep392 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:56 PM

Ely & SignGuy81  post are also legit, I do not own the rights to any of the original or prototype ATARI 5200 GAMES, nor modifying their code to make them run on the ATARI 8bit machine makes them mine.

This is technically true, but you put a lot of your own effort into coding the conversions and production this custom cart.  It's only fair you should be able to make a little money selling them.  Though you would probably make more per hour working at McDonalds. ;)  

 

I once calculated how much time I spent programming Donkey Kong XM and how much I made selling the carts.  I think it was less than $3/hr.  I made more working in a grocery store back in 1984.



#64 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:59 PM

One elephant in the room was the thread title itself   'looks like a scam to me'    that wasn't a question.  it wasn't 'is this a scam?' or help me with this cartridge I have questions... nope it's a straight up come at me bro, looks like a scam to me declaration...couched with a question mark..... it was click bait... it did what was intended very youtubesque


Edited by _The Doctor__, Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:02 PM.


#65 ProWizard OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:59 PM

This is technically true, but you put a lot of your own effort into coding the conversions and production this custom cart.  It's only fair you should be able to make a little money selling them.  Though you would probably make more per hour working at McDonalds. ;)  

 

I once calculated how much time I spent programming Donkey Kong XM and how much I made selling the carts.  I think it was less than $3/hr.  I made more working in a grocery store back in 1984.

 

I still enjoy your fabulous reproduction of Pac-Man. 



#66 ProWizard OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:03 PM

One elephant in the room was the thread title itself   'looks like a scam to me'    that wasn't a question.  it wasn't 'is this a scam?' or help me with this cartridge I have questions... nope it's a straight up come at me bro, looks like a scam to me declaration...couched with a question mark..... it was click bait... it did what was intended very youtubesque

So true...

 

So in the end we all (lol yes all) agree this topic sucked bigtime?



#67 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:06 PM

suckity suck suck suckity suck suck look at sucky go!  Yeah it was a drag, a bummer all around.. agreed. Time to let it die the death it deserves!



#68 tep392 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:12 PM

 

I still enjoy your fabulous reproduction of Pac-Man. 

Thank you!  That game didn't take as much time.  Figure I made about $3.75/hr with it. :)



#69 ACML OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:02 PM

One elephant in the room was the thread title itself   'looks like a scam to me'    that wasn't a question.  it wasn't 'is this a scam?' or help me with this cartridge I have questions... nope it's a straight up come at me bro, looks like a scam to me declaration...couched with a question mark..... it was click bait... it did what was intended very youtubesque

It must be too cold to go outside today in combination with everyone being bored at home on the holiday (the 11th is Veterans Day in the USA. Today is the Federal observed holiday) .  People are way over thinking this.  When I wrote it, it was late and I was tired.  All I wanted to know was whether anyone ever heard of this thing.  That's it.  I apologize for my selection of words and not consulting the book of Hoyle, so to put in the immortal words of Sgt Hulka, "Lighten up Francis".  



#70 brenski OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:31 PM

It must be too cold to go outside today in combination with everyone being bored at home on the holiday (the 11th is Veterans Day in the USA. Today is the Federal observed holiday) .  People are way over thinking this.  When I wrote it, it was late and I was tired.  All I wanted to know was whether anyone ever heard of this thing.  That's it.  I apologize for my selection of words and not consulting the book of Hoyle, so to put in the immortal words of Sgt Hulka, "Lighten up Francis".  

 

the only one to come out of this with any shred of dignity is Nir Dary.

there are so many ways he could've reacted to the "accusatory" tone of your opening post, but he didn't. perhaps he's just too much of a nice guy?

 

you can say it was a "bad choice of words" - but your words are quite clear, and who waits THREE pages to come up with that as a reason?

if that >>  "it's late, i was tired" and "selection of words" genuinely was the reason for your OP, then that should've been your FIRST response in this thread.

 

probably going to get flamed for this, but hey-ho - i 've just put on my asbestos underpants, so i'll be ok



#71 Kyle22 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:13 PM

@ACML,

 

  I was upset because of your public accusation of a scam before you checked out the seller.

 

A simple Web search for "Nir Dary" or "ndary" "Atari" would have revealed who he is. You can click his name here and select "Find Content".

 

It's always good to do research BEFORE publicly accusing someone of a scam.

 

That's all. I'm done.

 

:)



#72 mytekcontrols OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:57 AM

Speaking of Nir, don't you guys just love those videos he puts together to demo new hardware, or to demonstrate how to do something on our A8's? I know I sure do, and because of one of those I learned how use fdisk in SDX to setup a new CF card the first time. He made the process of doing that so incredibly easy. Really great stuff for sure.

Until this topic popped up I didn't realize he's also designed hardware. Truly a talented guy.

Well this day is almost over for me, and it was a good one for me, as I hope it has been for all of you. Tomorrow is a new day, the start of the weekend, and a chance to really cause some trouble --- just kidding. Take care everyone.

- Michael

#73 Mclaneinc OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:29 AM

Nir, you carry on doing what you do, they are wonderful little creations that people LOVE, your work is 100% appreciated because secretly ACML loves what you do as well ;)

 

I keep saying, we in this community hold on to copyright too dearly....On new stuff I fully understand but 40yr old stuff, lets stop being silly...



#74 ACML OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:25 AM

Nir, you carry on doing what you do, they are wonderful little creations that people LOVE, your work is 100% appreciated because secretly ACML loves what you do as well ;)

 

I keep saying, we in this community hold on to copyright too dearly....On new stuff I fully understand but 40yr old stuff, lets stop being silly...

I absolutely love what Nir does.  After the third or forth post that answered my question, I replied how is something so cool not better known about.  The genesis of why I asked for corroboration was that I wanted to buy one (otherwise, who cares).  Then this thread took on a different crazy life talking about copyright and that had absolutely nothing to do with me or my comments.  That tangent is what 90% of the thread became about and now apparently, I own it??? (no thank you).  I could care less about the copyright stuff.  To me these titles are "abandonware" and no one cares, including me.  I have tried to refrain from adding to this thread gone crazy, but just had to say the copyright thing has nothing to do with me.  I just want this thread to die.  Peace out.


Edited by ACML, Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:49 AM.


#75 mytekcontrols OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:37 AM

deadthread-1.jpg?w=280&h=210&fit=crop

 

That should do it  :)






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