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floppy replacement/ Hard Drive


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#1 Wally1 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:28 AM

soo what is the  BEST alternative?

 

 

the Cosmos EX?

 

or the UltraSatan?

 

 

anybody?

 

Gotek...

 

 

floppy emulators?

 

ACK!  can't figure it out!  ( I also need to know if I can transfer files straight from the PC to the ST.) please!

 

help


Edited by Wally1, Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:29 AM.


#2 krisu13 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:12 PM

I have all 3 that you mention, but I find myself using Gotek with FF the most.

if you are interested I have one extra with tons of software for it.

Kris


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#3 Zogging Hell OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:14 PM

Depends whether you play original games or not, if you do a replacement floppy drive is the only way to go. If you don't a Gotek is probably the cheapest replacement.



#4 SoulBuster OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:20 PM

As far as getting files from the PC to the ST.  Format a real floppy on the ST and the PC will read and write to it.

 

the NetUSBEE is also handy

 

http://www.lotharek....duct.php?pid=73



#5 Wally1 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:53 PM

now i am slightly more confused.

 

what exactly IS the Gotek anyway.

 

 

I have all 3 that you mention, but I find myself using Gotek with FF the most.

if you are interested I have one extra with tons of software for it.

Kris


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

how much do you want for it?

 

 

what is FF?


Edited by Wally1, Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:11 PM.


#6 krisu13 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:47 PM

sent you PM

FF flashfloppy firmware for Gotek

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#7 ParanoidLittleMan OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:48 AM

As usual, there is no clear answer on "what is best" question. For some, the best is only fully original HW + SW . Some others prefer speed and easy usage - what means now some Flash card based mass storage (as mentioned UltraSatan) - and yes, it is much more comfortable to run some 5 floppy game installed (and adapted) from SD card.

Between those 2 would be using HW floppy emulator - like Gotek, HxC, or even combo of floppy emul and mass storage (CE) .

All it has own benefits and flaws, diverse prices. So, I can only say that it is on end user to decide. Things are easy for people with plenty of space and money: get it all :-D  Then will realize that need plenty of time too :P


Edited by ParanoidLittleMan, Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:49 AM.


#8 Justin Payne OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:41 AM

So, what GOTEK is closest to the ST color or is a bit of painting in order?



#9 English Invader OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:12 AM

So, what GOTEK is closest to the ST color or is a bit of painting in order?

 

If you're concerned with cosmetics, the Gotek is definitely not the way to go.  You have to cut a hole in the side of the ST case just to fit the device (same deal with the PC floppy drives they sell on eBay).

 

For me, anything that involves defacing the original hardware is a deal-breaker so I use an Ultra Satan hard drive emulator and an original ST floppy drive.



#10 Bikerbob OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:28 PM

The Gotek can be completely removed from the plastic housing. If you were so inclined. I am getting an sh204 hdd that most likely the HDD does not work.. and its only 20mb anyway.. I will remove the drive and controller etc.  and then install my Gotek into the front, remove it completely from the housing, just cut the openings for the display (using an OLED) and the buttons and the USB port. Then in the back I am putting in my microcosmos so I can cut access for the USB ports and one slot at the side for the microSD card.

 

Then I will have a portable transferable between machines Floppy emu and HDD emu.  But the Gotek with Flash Floppy is good and a good price. they are on Ebay.

 

James


Edited by Bikerbob, Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:29 PM.


#11 Justin Payne OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:51 PM

 

If you're concerned with cosmetics, the Gotek is definitely not the way to go.  You have to cut a hole in the side of the ST case just to fit the device (same deal with the PC floppy drives they sell on eBay).

 

For me, anything that involves defacing the original hardware is a deal-breaker so I use an Ultra Satan hard drive emulator and an original ST floppy drive.

Good to know and I guess this won't be the solution for my Falcon (Which I would never deface) but it might make a nice addition to my 520's external floppy drive. That one got defaced years ago when the original floppy failed and I replaced with another that didn't quite fit right. This time I'll try to clean it up so it doesn't look like such a hack job.

 

As far as picking one up, there seems to be a few models but I'm going to assume for the 520 that the 720K is the one I want but do you guys know if the 1.44 would also work in it's placed? I mean, most of the images I would put on it would probably be 720K but if there was a chance in the future that I wanted to use it in another system that could read 1.44 floppies, it might be nice not to have that limit.



#12 Bikerbob OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:26 PM

Justin, if you look around there are many threads, and several blogs - troegs for example -  exxos site - that talk about the 1.44 sub - TOS 2.05 is the first that had the 1.44 support built in. So most machines older (non STE) cannot accept 1.44 without a mod... Now if you asking can you put a 1.44 in and use it as a 720k drive.. the answer is for MOST mechanisms YES.. usually a jumper to solder or a wire to patch.. but they work. There are certain 1.44 drives that work better than others.. but MOST can be converted. As for fitting the face plate.. there is only one drive that does.. a Sony SMD-300.

 

James



#13 Zogging Hell OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:44 PM

As for fitting the face plate.. there is only one drive that does.. a Sony SMD-300.

 

James

 

Actually to make matters worse there seem to be several types of face plate for various mechanisms, original factory fitted Chinon drives are slightly different, and there are others. I suffered from this, when I was young and naive I thought my floppy drive was dying so sent it to be replaced. I had the sense to ask for the old drive back as well as the new one, but it came back without the face plate. I later discovered the drive was actually fine, but trying to find another face plate to fit has proved to be a nightmare (presumably why it was half inched in the first place). I have a collection of about eight, several different, and do any fit this drive.. no...



#14 Justin Payne OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:12 AM

Sorry. I didn't specify that I planned to replace my external drive with a Gotek. Since there seems to be two versions, a 720k and 1.44k, I didn't know if it really mattered which one I purchased. I know that a stock 520st won't be able to read 1.44k images but if the price is comparable and would work out of the box or w/ little modification, having the 1.44k might be the best option since I could, in the future, use it for other floppy replacements that can host 1.44k images.
If you guys have purchased the Gotek, which model did you go with and what were your experiences?

#15 Justin Payne OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:50 PM

Looking at the http://www.gotek.in/site, it seems to imply that the devices listed there can formatted into blocks of 1.44/1.2/720 kb. I'm guessing the slash means OR.

Doing a little searching, there seems to be a few models.

All start with SFR

Then there are two different models; the 1M44 and M72.

Then a dash followed by a couple different models. -U, -FU, -U100, -U100K, -U100K-R, and -FU-DL

 

GOTEK MODELS.PNG

 

It seems like the  Sfr1m44-u100 is the best bang for the buck and matches close to the ST's color but none of them gave the same details about "can formatted into blocks of 1.44/1.2/720 kb".


Edited by Justin Payne, Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:06 PM.


#16 Bikerbob OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:24 PM

If you use either HxC or FF you will be changing the firmware and that will allow you to use what you need. You configure the drive the way you want it. and your golden.

 

James



#17 juansolo OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:27 AM

Back in the day when the ST was my main computer for college work, BBSs and what have you, I had a HDD. When I've come to revisit this recently I gravitated initially towards an Ultrasatan. I'd have loved that back in the day, but now, you're reminded just how clunky HDD support and GEM is (I used Neodesk back in the day to ease that a little), and just how much better the Amiga does it. I ended up selling the Ultrasatan and am now running a Gotek with HxC firmware and, for nostalgia's sake, which is all the ST is now really, it's perfect as it runs most things without the ball ache.

 

You can also bodge it in there without too much butchery to the casework if you're that way inclined.

 

Admittedly the way I've done it means you have to take the lid off to get to the USB drive. But I very rarely update it now so it's not a big issue.

Attached Thumbnails

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Edited by juansolo, Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:34 AM.


#18 AMenard ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:49 AM

Back in the day when the ST was my main computer for college work, BBSs and what have you, I had a HDD. When I've come to revisit this recently I gravitated initially towards an Ultrasatan. I'd have loved that back in the day, but now, you're reminded just how clunky HDD support and GEM is (I used Neodesk back in the day to ease that a little), and just how much better the Amiga does it. I ended up selling the Ultrasatan and am now running a Gotek with HxC firmware and, for nostalgia's sake, which is all the ST is now really, it's perfect as it runs most things without the ball ache.
 
You can also bodge it in there without too much butchery to the casework if you're that way inclined.
 
Admittedly the way I've done it means you have to take the lid off to get to the USB drive. But I very rarely update it now so it's not a big issue.


A torhoidal transfo in a computer?? Nice!
Is that a recent replacement?

#19 Justin Payne OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:19 AM

If you use either HxC or FF you will be changing the firmware and that will allow you to use what you need. You configure the drive the way you want it. and your golden.

 

James

Oh, so it doesn't matter which drive I choose? I mean, I planned to change the firmware but I didn't realize that's what defines what images sizes it reads. So, will all the Goteks flash to use HxC?



#20 juansolo OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:40 AM

A torhoidal transfo in a computer?? Nice!
Is that a recent replacement?

 

Yep, the original supply packed in and rather than re-cap it I thought I'd go for a bit of future-proofing and fit one of Exxos' ninja PSUs, and very nice it is too!



#21 Bikerbob OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:47 PM

Oh, so it doesn't matter which drive I choose? I mean, I planned to change the firmware but I didn't realize that's what defines what images sizes it reads. So, will all the Goteks flash to use HxC?

 

Any Gotek drive you buy can be used on the ST.. yes.. you want the common ones with the usb port and the 2 buttons and 1 led..   So almost all the ones on ebay. They can be flashed with either HxC (paid for) or the new open sourced Flash Floppy.. which is getting pretty popular very fast, it can use the HxC utilities.. or not.  In fact the FF guys are just releasing their own hardware soon.. so that it will accept all the fancy upgrades easier. There is a FlashFloppy facebook group if your interested.

 

As it is an emulated drive there is no hardware limit on the image size. The 720k/1.44mb drive issue is hardware, not software. MAYBE before tos 1.04? someone might corrrect me? I am pretty sure if you had an 1.8mb image (for example) I think clicking on the A drive would just open it up? Is there the ability in stright TOS without a utility to format it? no.. but there is its own utility programs.  This is the way I understand it.

 

James



#22 ParanoidLittleMan OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:44 AM

Heh ... Actually 720K/1.44 MB is pure HW issue in case of Atari ST serial.  ST(E) does not handle HD floppies, TT and Falcon do. Saying HD (High density, actually is is quad density) is much better than 1.44 MB.

And in case of Atari SW is much more flexible than in case of DOS and especially Windows. You can handle 800KB, and even 880KB floppies with ST(E) - it is still DD (Double density).

In case of HD multiply it with 2 . I used 1.6MB HD floppies with my modded ST very well. Could go on 1.8, but that was not reliable, and was slower because need for interleave.

Now, SW is little longer story because need for proper step rate setting, but actually you can work with HD, so for instance 1.6 MB floppies very well even with TOS 1.00 - after doing HD floppy mod or upgrade in ST.

 

Now,  if using some HW floppy emulator as Gotek - with unmodded ST(E) you can not use HD images unless SW in Gotek makes it possible since no physical limit on media  - but that actually still works in DD mode, with lower transfer speeds, since original FDC supports only that. And some SW may not like it, because timing is not as is with real floppies.

 

I looked Gotek site, and what is there is just not looking good for Atari users:

"Compatibility: 3.5"- 720kB: 80 tracks /9 sector"

I'm sure that it can 10 sectors/track and probably 11 too, otherwise would be useless for Atari users.

But it seems that no model what can HD and DD - or it depends on firmware ?


Edited by ParanoidLittleMan, Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:36 AM.


#23 Bikerbob OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:09 AM

thanks Peter I am sure you are correct, I was corrected this morning on the Flash Floppy Facebook page as well. SO if the Hardware would require a mod to use HD images, then it still does. But the Gotek itself can use firmware which will allow any size image.. as long as the hardware can read that image.

 

So.. I guess we still need to make HD mod.. on STs STe. MEGAs? MEGA STE some have it but not all? and TTs and Fal can use HD.

 

James



#24 mattsoft OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:24 PM

The GOTEK is nice, but the Lotharek UltraSatan in the external metal case is just pure awesome sauce. Loading programs and games from "hard disk" is super fast and PP makes a driver for the hard disk and has adapted tons of games to work from it (google: PP Atari ST). 

 

Justin Payne: I see you're near me -- if you're ever up in Seattle, let me know, I'd be happy to show you the UltraSatan.

 

-matt


Edited by mattsoft, Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:26 PM.


#25 remowilliams OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:39 PM

FlashFloppy (and HxC) now support screens on the Gotek hardware as well, such as this extremely inexpensive OLED.

 

bsTh8e.jpg






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