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#476 CyranoJ ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 4, 2018 11:42 PM

Let's not forget he ignored virtually the exact same feedback from a play tester' long before I said anything to him.

 

It was apparently good enough to start making carts at that point.  Don't put any of this on me, Jeff had already decided to sell it at that point, let the quality speak for itself.



#477 Stage_1_Boss OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 5, 2018 12:19 AM

I know there's a lot of stuff flyin' around right now, but, for what it's worth, I did have more fun with Jagzombies in it's current state than I did with Mad Bodies.

#478 Gummy Bear OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 5, 2018 12:21 AM

High praise indeed! ;)

#479 CyranoJ ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 5, 2018 12:23 AM

I know there's a lot of stuff flyin' around right now, but, for what it's worth, I did have more fun with Jagzombies in it's current state than I did with Mad Bodies.

 

Well, I can't argue with that. So did I :)



#480 UHATEIT OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 5, 2018 6:43 AM

Ah man poor Mad Bodies gets so much hate. I actually really enjoy that one except it's super hard and I can't get past the first boss.

Back on the Jagzombies topic I decided to play the abs and the ROM last night of the demo from I believe last year (October or December) and I found it quite fun. If that's what you guys were playing and had feedback to give I guess I noticed some stuff that probably was already mentioned in here but now having played it I can see what the fuss was about.

The hit detection seemed off, you can't aim directly at the head or body of the zombie and expect it to kill them, it's only when the crosshair turns red that the shot works and sometimes that crosshair turns red when it's not even hitting the zombie, more like off to the side. Then I noticed everytime I would hit reload the male zombie on the left would always reset itself. I don't know what bats flying into the ground people were talking about, perhaps they had a different rom version that had extra levels done on it. The one I found on here was back further in the thread and it only had 1 level.

Overall the graphics we're pretty cool and a shooter for the Jag like this is great. Once polished it will be pretty awesome. But even at the state I played it in it was still quite fun.

Edited by UHATEIT, Wed Sep 5, 2018 6:45 AM.


#481 WAVE 1 GAMES OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 5, 2018 9:50 AM

Mad Bodies is really fun if you get into it. A paddle and a turret gun may seem like a strange combination for gameplay but I think the Jaguar is the best platform to try something like that on.

@UHATEIT Yes that was a VERY early version of the game, not the version that was for sale. Dispite what folks here will screen cap and draw arrows on and twist around those mechanics of the game are very much improved over the original demo from a year ago. Although still not pixel perfect they are greatly improved and the zombies do NOT reset when you press reload.

As for why the game went up for sale I felt it was ready as it is playable from begining to end. Cj suggested that I with my limited abilities continue to work on the game for 18 more months.

I don't know about most folks but 2 1/2 years is far too much time to invest in a project especially when you have a family and a full time job so that additional year and a half that he suggested is just NOT going to happen.

As for the allegations that I am somehow commiting a crime by selling the game in that state here is what I said:

I'm fixing it

I plan to address the issues of the crosshair (because it MUST be pixel perfect or you just cant play the game)

I am fixing the graphics tearing issues.

I am fixing the delayed sound issues.

I am increasing the difficulty of the overall game.

At no point did I send cj a version of the game that I declared "fixed" or asked for approval to ship.

I clearly stated that Im still working on the fixes.

I have never encountered this "invincible" zombie that cj has pointed out. But rest assured I am searching for it everyday.

The collision boxes are set slightly too high which explains why the sky above the zombies head can count as a kill and they have invincible trousers.
This is an easy fix and is just something I overlooked.

@Zerosquare again I appologize for the response I gave you yesterday. I know we are not friends but I was out of line talking to you like that. I was upset with another individual.

I did get some very helpful advice from a few folks on here regarding the game and I thank them for that. As for everything else it's starting to get ridiculous around here. And when I say around here I mean Atari Age Jaguar thread. A discussion thread about a game/concept that everyone here has agreed is an awesome concept turns into an interrogation. It leaves one wondering why he ever bothered discussing anything here to begin with.

I actually do have customer feedback from the few customers that weren't affraid to open the box because cj says so, and guess what? Its positive feedback. I will upload the screen caps after I photoshop their identities out.

Even Stage_1_boss said that as a button masher its a fun game and it works. Whats wrong with it being a button masher? So this charade that I have created a non functional game and am stealing money from people stops today. The game is functional and playable and ENJOYABLE from begining to end. Nobody has to buy my games but what are we even talking about? A game I am NOT even selling anymore because it's under revision.... REVISION to address the issues you folks here (most who have never played the game) are pointing out.

Im working on the game.
Im fixing what I can.
Im reaching out to my buyers who have already paid.
I will be re-releasing the game once the issues I listed avove are corrected. I do not seek approvals from anyone here. I will not be re-writing a years worth of work and it will not be the next Final Fantasy 7.... However none of the games on Jaguar including beloved AA homebrews can really be considered commercial quality games. Well I guess they can. Lets not forget Supercross 3D and Kasumi Ninja were commercial games and I would bet JagZombies is 300 times better than those titles.

I have tried to not comment much not because I am hiding something or I have a super secret agenda and am keeping people in the dark, its because no matter what I say my words here get twisted into something different entirely.

Im not being a drama queen right now I am just stating the reality of the matter. As far as JagZombies goes I will upload some of the good feedback I have gotten here today and I am going to keep working on those issues. It will be back up for sale when those issues are fixed. I will update once there is an update to give.

#482 JagChris OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 5, 2018 11:28 AM

This genre is really fun. Add zombies and yeah...

#483 lachoneus OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 5, 2018 12:46 PM

It is awesome that you are working on your game, and that you are taking feedback into consideration. I am sure that the game will be better for it.

What's unfortunate is that you have essentially charged people the cost of a finished game to play test a game that seemed to have play testers that were willing to playtest for free.

I understand that you will refund or replace these customers' copies if they want later on. But is this really the best approach to making your game better, when there are people around that are willing to help?

I am not trying to be antagonistic. I am just trying to figure out the benefits of this kind of production strategy, when it obviously is causing problems with potential customers.

At this point I understand that controversy creates allot of talk and therefore more awareness for your game. Which I am sure leads to more sales. But to me, because of controversy, I don't even consider purchasing your games. Its not personal vendetta towards you, but instead it would be adding fuel to that controversy if I supported someone who is intentionally or unintentionally causing problems because of the way they do things.

Those of us who develop games for the Jaguar have a profound good or bad effect on this small community whether we like it or not. There have been plenty of examples of developers in the past who have been able to produce and release games for this console without so much strife, so I know it isn't because we are all terrible people you are experiencing so much blowback for your work.

This will be my last comment on your work unless there is noticeable change in your production strategy the breeds less controversy. Best of luck.

#484 Sporadic OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 5, 2018 2:06 PM

Stop reacting to all the posts in here Jeff and try to take in what's being said to you. Then think 'why' is all this happening. 

 

I wanted to raise a few points below in blue.

 

As for why the game went up for sale I felt it was ready as it is playable from begining to end. Before you sought help here, someone else at least told you all these same problems. Why put yourself through the extra cost and loss of money by sending out multiple copies?

I don't know about most folks but 2 1/2 years is far too much time to invest in a project especially when you have a family and a full time job so that additional year and a half that he suggested is just NOT going to happen. Why the rush? Are you not doing this for a hobby? I'm still working on multiple projects but havent even entertained the idea of production yet. They are done when they are done, enjoy the creation process.

As for the allegations that I am somehow commiting a crime by selling the game in that state here is what I said: Not sure anyone has said "crime".

I have never encountered this "invincible" zombie that cj has pointed out. But rest assured I am searching for it everyday. This is the zombie that the sights are clearly over, but are not red (and hence can't be killed).

The collision boxes are set slightly too high which explains why the sky above the zombies head can count as a kill and they have invincible trousers.
This is an easy fix and is just something I overlooked. Haven't people been mentioning this for a year now? 


I did get some very helpful advice from a few folks on here regarding the game and I thank them for that. People on this forum genuinely  want to help and give critisism or feedback. Some are more blunt and to the point than others, don't take it to heart. How you react to these posts governs peoples responses here. As I've said elsewhere, gamers are passionate people and anyone supporting their beloved retro systems, even more so. Everyone wants the best things for their little Jags and probably hate to see wasted opportunities (there's been plenty already).

I actually do have customer feedback from the few customers that weren't affraid to open the box because cj says so, and guess what? Its positive feedback. I will upload the screen caps after I photoshop their identities out. Think what the feedback would have been if you fully polished the game. They'd be ecstatic!

A game I am NOT even selling anymore because it's under revision.... REVISION to address the issues you folks here (most who have never played the game) are pointing out. Don't say that like you're doing us a favour. It shouldn't get this far for you to notice these things or be told about them.

 



#485 JagChris OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 5, 2018 3:16 PM

This better be better than Rogue Squadron, that's all I'm sayin'

#486 WAVE 1 GAMES OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 5, 2018 3:38 PM

This better be better than Rogue Squadron, that's all I'm sayin'


Ok Chris. Will do.

You know if I remember correctly the PC version of that game got shitty reviews compared to the N64 version. I can't remember why though

#487 CyranoJ ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 5, 2018 4:02 PM

@UHATEIT Yes that was a VERY early version of the game, not the version that was for sale. Dispite what folks here will screen cap and draw arrows on and twist around those mechanics of the game are very much improved over the original demo from a year ago. Although still not pixel perfect they are greatly improved and the zombies do NOT reset when you press reload.
 

 

jzfinal.png

 

Yes, that looked like a "VERY early version of the game" and not at all a "final_FINAL.abs"

Jeff, your scruples are lower than your intelligence. Give it up and OWN YOUR MISTAKES in life.



#488 JagChris OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 5, 2018 4:29 PM

Ok Chris. Will do.
You know if I remember correctly the PC version of that game got shitty reviews compared to the N64 version. I can't remember why though


I would have settled for the PC version being beaten but hell if you got your sites set on the N64 version who am I to say otherwise.

#489 WAVE 1 GAMES OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 5, 2018 4:30 PM

 

attachicon.gifjzfinal.png

 

Yes, that looked like a "VERY early version of the game" and not at all a "final_FINAL.abs"

Jeff, your scruples are lower than your intelligence. Give it up and OWN YOUR MISTAKES in life.

 

 

Are you really doing this right now?

 

That version you just screen capped is the one that went to production. This is the very first ROM I sent YOU when I asked you for help. It contains the bugs and is not a "fixed" version of the game and you already know that.

 

It says final_final because that is what I called it before I sent it to Nick back in mid August.

 

It has the "bugs"

 

I never stated anywhere that this version you have screen capped has any fixes applied.

 

This is actually the very FIRST message I sent you asking for help, so how can it be the revised version if no revisions took place yet?

 

The one UHATEIT is referring to is the ROM posted last year as I have NOT released that ROM publicly that is dated in YOUR screenshot August 23

 

THE DATE IN YOUR OWN SCREENSHOT CALLS BULLSHIT! AUGUST 23!!!

 

Why actually are you doing this?

 

I am not finished revising the game. I never sent you a "fixed" ready to send out NEW version of the game because I'm still working on it.

 

IN FACT it's very clear that this is the very first message I sent you as it also contains the source files and manual.

 

This was our FIRST message.



#490 CyranoJ ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 5, 2018 4:37 PM

Are you really doing this right now?

 

Am I going to do what right now?

 

Call out your lies?

Call out your attempts to throw people under buses?

 

You bet I am.

 

You send someone a build called final_FINAL and they try to spin you clearly say it isn't a FINAL build?

 

You claim no carts shipped, yet, look, another bunch turn up on the AJF facebook page today.

 

If you want to lie please try and do it in a way you don't harpoon yourself in the foot with your own words.

 

You can make out all this is other people's fault as much as you like, the truth is: You made ROMs made after being told repeatedly it was broken. You then attempted to sell such ROMs (3rd game in a row, remember). You got caught out doing such.

 

Why people defend this behaviour is beyond me. I just took a giant shit in the toilet. Anyone want to send me $60 for it if I put it in a box?



#491 WAVE 1 GAMES OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 5, 2018 4:38 PM

uhateit.PNG

 

stone cold.jpg



#492 WAVE 1 GAMES OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 5, 2018 4:41 PM

I was talking about the version UHATEIT played from last year.

 

And no you are wrong.

 

That is the first message I sent you asking for help. I never once said that was a "fixed" vesion of the game and never asked for your approval to ship it.

 

The original ROM that contains the bugs was called Final_final and the DATE in your screencap says it all August 23 when I first asked you for help.

 

I'm done not going back and forth with you.

 

It's obvious what you are trying to do here. It doesn't matter what I called my files PRIOR to doing a revision. The fact of the matter is the revision is still going on and you are trying to make it look like I'm doing something I am not.

 

Go to eBay, look for the game. It is NOT listed because it's under revision.

 

I'm done



#493 Lost Dragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 5, 2018 4:47 PM

PC Rogue Squadron has worse handling than the N64 version making it more awkward to target enemies.

Also,the visuals weren't anything special for PC games at that time.

Hence the critiscm aimed at it,compared to the N64 version,which was something of a technical achievement on the console.

#494 CyranoJ ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 5, 2018 4:54 PM

No Jeff, it's obvious what you are trying to do here.

 

You can sling my name down on the floor and jump on it as much as you like.

 

All this is your responsibilityYou made this.  You threw people under the bus saying "well they tested it for a year".  You failed to notice obvious flaws with not only the game but also the design.  You act with deflection when asked questions.  You get upset when people point out things wrong with the game.  You ignored plentiful and willingly given advice and help.  You lied and deceived the people you went to for help.  You now come here crying when this is all pointed out.

 

YOU fail to take responsibility. Every time.

 

Notice a common theme there?

 

Frankly, I'm embarrassed there is an rB+ logo on the box.



#495 WAVE 1 GAMES OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 5, 2018 5:02 PM

Good job ignoring all the BS I just called you out on.

So how about this captain,

I told you when I sent you that ROM it had fixes in it?

I asked for your approval to ship the version in the very first message I sent you?

At any time did I send you a build of the game claiming it to be fixed?

Are you just going to ignore the fact that UHATEIT was playing the demo ROM from last year and that is what I was talking about?

Did you NOT ask me to remove comments from JSIII that were negative comments towards YOU, REBOOT and the unfair treatment of people in AA?

How about you answer those questions?

#496 JagChris OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 5, 2018 5:22 PM

PC Rogue Squadron has worse handling than the N64 version making it more awkward to target enemies.
Also,the visuals weren't anything special for PC games at that time.
Hence the critiscm aimed at it,compared to the N64 version,which was something of a technical achievement on the console.


Been years since I played the N64 version but once you get your controls dialed in they are really good on PC.

Criticisms according to vs video.N64 has physics glitches and poor framerate.


Pros. N64 A.I. Is tougher.

Graphics are fine by me.

#497 CyranoJ ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 5, 2018 5:36 PM

So, Jeff.

 

I really don't have time to spend here, what with getting bug reports and fixing them for my own game.

 

How about we just post the entire fucking PM thread?  No?  Didn't think you'd agree to that.

 

(If you do want to, go ahead, you are the copy and paste expert)



#498 CyranoJ ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 5, 2018 6:11 PM

That version you just screen capped is the one that went to production. This is the very first ROM I sent YOU when I asked you for help. It contains the bugs and is not a "fixed" version of the game and you already know that.

 

I'll just leave you with that little nugget. Way to respect your customers.



#499 Lost Dragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 5, 2018 6:30 PM

Been years since I played the N64 version but once you get your controls dialed in they are really good on PC.
Criticisms according to vs video.N64 has physics glitches and poor framerate.
Pros. N64 A.I. Is tougher.
Graphics are fine by me.


Some website and magazine reviewers found the PC controls a little too choppy for their tastes and expected more from the games visuals,feeling the N64 had seen more effort put into it,in order to get most from the system.

PC version by comparison didn't set any new visual benchmarks.

I've no idea if there were different teams for each version.

I just remember the reviews from the time.

#500 skip OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 5, 2018 7:16 PM

All the slinging aside, Jeff you now ignored the simple question / comment yet again from myself (multiple times), Iachoneous, and now Sporadic: why do you ship buggy games and then have to go through the process of fixing them?

Its a horrible waste of time, energy, and money. Never mind a bad look and the fact that its just not the done thing with cartridge devs for old systems to always do revisions for every title.

Its obvious that hit detection should be an easy fix (I teach teenagers how to code and its not even an issue other than shifting some x or y values in under a minute) yet is a problem seemingly randomly (and explosions / blood that are offset too). Are these values hard coded on a per zombie basis rather than in a function or similar? If so it seems like a huge fix and very inefficient.

I see a post on AJF with another sold with box etc. I also notice you havent informed them that (a) the game isnt final and (b) from what Ive read in this thread its extremely short. That seems a bit disingenuous.

Ill bow out of this thread now. What should be a fun hobby for us all, especially with new games that are promising and show great potential, is tainted with the inevitable rushed Wave 1 game with bugs (polished manual and box though!) and selective answering / response to questions and constructive suggestions. What a shame, albeit not an unforeseen one.

Edited by skip, Wed Sep 5, 2018 7:23 PM.





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