Softs that take advantage of Sophia?

[haightc]

I was wonder if there are any softs that make use of the Sophia RGB board out yet?

 

[ivop]

Do you mean the extra color in gr. 0 and gr. 8?

[flashjazzcat]

And if so, how does the software know Sofia is present?

[Level42]

Taking a lucky guess ?

 

The hardware is out a few months.....what can you expect ??

[flashjazzcat]

I don't expect anything: it is what it is, and I'm not aware of any way to detect the hardware via software. Sure: you could poke a value and then print "Yellow Text", but the text might still be white.

[Level42]

I don't expect anything:

 

 

I aimed that at the OP.... How can one expect to software already take advantage of a product that is just out and actually is still much in development seeing the updates still being made ?

 

I understand the wish but SOPHIA was never _meant_ to add extra stuff....these ideas were brought up by others....at least....that is what I understand from reading the thread...

[flashjazzcat]

I see - and that's a reasonable observation, of course (no supporting software yet). You're right about the extra features too, but once you bring in those extra features, it would be nice to have some way of knowing they're there. The 1088XEL¦U1MB BIOS plugin will support the Sophia's version of VGate, but without any knowledge of whether the hardware capability actually exists (i.e. it's down to the user to install the correct plugin). If Sophia made itself visible somehow, one plugin could configure itself for both the 1088XEL's on-board VGate and the Sophia implementation (both of which are controlled completely differently).

[haightc]

II was curious since it's been out for a year now and I was wonder if anyone have try to take advantage or the additional features. I put the Sophia in my 600XL, RGB is obviously a nice quality jump over the RF. I also have a 800XL and a XEGS, I would like to get a VBXE/XL at some point but every time I put it in the little cart at Lothrek shop the shipping cost with exchange rate always disways me.

 

 

• True 256 colors
• 16 luminance levels available in all graphics modes.
• Two colors in hi-resolution graphics

[Level42]

And then what ?

 

We can have some extra colors ?

 

Woo-hoo

 

Sorry but I don't care about extra graphics capabilities for the A8.

That's why I'll never add a VBXE or any turbo boards.

 

Just my opinion of course. I don't feel the need for my A8 to look like, or process numbers like a modern day PC or Mac. I have a Mac for that....

 

VBX has been around for a much longer time than SOPHIA. How many games support it ? How many demo's ?

I think the only real exception on the rule of adding extra hardware enhancements that really got some thorough support is Stereo POKEY. But that came around a pretty long time ago already....

 

I understand the technical challenge...but just because something is possible it is not always needed.

(For example: anyone remembers laserdisc players. One of the greatly advertised features was picture by picture slow motion playback. Both ways..... do any Blu-Ray players still support that ? Did anyone actually use it ? No. It was done because technologically it _could_ be done, but there was never a need...

Edited November 18, 2017 by Level42

[Alfred]

Hey now, I still have my Pioneer LaserDisc player, and it still- frames way better than anything I've seen yet.

[Level42]

I bet you're watching it all day long........... ;D

[Mathy]

Hello Andre

 

..... do any Blu-Ray players still support that ? Did anyone actually use it ? No. It was done because technologically it _could_ be done, but there was never a need...

 

Or maybe it's because most people don't RTFM. Often, most people don't have a clue about half the features a device has. Look at all the idiots driving around in the dark with their portable navigation devices in "Day" mode.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

[Level42]

Hello Andre

 

 

Or maybe it's because most people don't RTFM. Often, most people don't have a clue about half the features a device has. Look at all the idiots driving around in the dark with their portable navigation devices in "Day" mode.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

_That_ is very true......but then again, IMHO technology should be SMARTER than those dumbasses and adjust it automatically.....and let it be a feature to DISABLE if you _really_ want to.....for some weird reason.....so again......not thinking from the need of things is the reason for this.....

[Simius]

Detection isn't always necessary. For instance - the RastaConverter could support 16 levels of luminance without detection.

[Irgendwer]

Detection isn't always necessary. For instance - the RastaConverter could support 16 levels of luminance without detection.

 

Hmm - how should that come out good without offering a different version for "non-Sofia"s?

 

Example: You have two close grey tones.

RastaConverter produces a result using the finer granularity of Sofia (E.g. $0A and $0B) which would produce on a normal machine the same colour but would waste an extra colour register for it, while $0C would a better choice then.

 

So you need two versions if you cannot detect the upgrade: One for Sophia and the normal one.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Irgendwer

[Level42]

In the older days we users were capable of entering a choice by typing a letter which choice we wanted.

 

Like running games at 50 or 60hz on the ST...

 

Of course detecting stuff is neat....but if Its not possible we will have to find a way around it.

 

Maybe we can monitor the video signal, produce a one frame test screen and let it analyse the signal to see if Sophia is doing its trick......or we can type a letter on the keyboard

Edited November 19, 2017 by Level42

[flashjazzcat]

Well, no better way of discouraging software support for these features, IMHO. This kind of manual detection is required by Covox as well, which is why I relegated that to an U1MB plugin. And at the end of the day, I'd really like to install a Sophia in my 1088XEL and provide support for extra features, too.

[+mytek]

Well, no better way of discouraging software support for these features, IMHO. This kind of manual detection is required by Covox as well, which is why I relegated that to an U1MB plugin. And at the end of the day, I'd really like to install a Sophia in my 1088XEL and provide support for extra features, too.

 

Some aspects might not really need detection such as...

 

Any problem with simply sending out the two writes to the $D01D register to either switch ON or switch OFF the V-Gate functionality that has recently been built into Sophia, irrelevant of whether it is present or not? So in other words just have this parallel the 1088XEL V-Gate enable/disable setting that is part of the 1088XEL specific version of the U1MB bios.

 

As for the special color bits it does appear that detection would be necessary, so that the software application could adapt where necessary in order to take advantage of the extra capability.

 

- Michael

[flashjazzcat]

No problem aside from the one you mentioned: namely that V-Gate isn't present on all the Sophia boards, so the user may enable a function that is not greyed out, only to discover it does nothing.

 

But your suggested solution seems perfectly reasonable, so I'll code it that way, and if you tell me it works, that'll be the matter closed as far as I'm concerned.

Edited November 21, 2017 by flashjazzcat

[+mytek]

No problem aside from the one you mentioned: namely that V-Gate isn't present on all the Sophia boards, so the user may enable a function that is not greyed out, only to discover it does nothing.

 

But your suggested solution seems perfectly reasonable, so I'll code it that way, and if you tell me it works, that'll be the matter closed as far as I'm concerned.

I just got done testing a new RevB core for the RGB version of Sophia, and am happy to say that Simius has now added the V-Gate function to it as well. Neither the new RevB or RevC cores have officially been released into the wild yet, but I would presume it will happen pretty soon.

 

Thank you Jon for following up on my suggestion

 

- Michael

[flashjazzcat]

Just uploaded a test BIOS to the PM discussion.

[+mytek]

Just uploaded a test BIOS to the PM discussion.

 

Got it .

 

Will test this afternoon.

 

Thank you,

 

- Michael

[+mytek]

The new V-Gate function in both of the latest beta builds for the RevB (RGB) and the RevC (DVI) boards has now been supported in a new beta build of the U1MB BIOS on the 1088XEL (thank you FJC ). So what this means is that Sophia will work in concert with the 1088XEL's Composite and S-Video outputs concerning elimination of over scan noise that was never intended to be seen, thus giving a much cleaner experience when playing games, especially some of the more vintage ones.

 

And not to forget, thank you Simius for being open to developing core changes that make this possible. And also thank you for creating a modern digital TV interface for our A8's (both the old and the new).

 

- Michael

[jc13]

I just got the Sophia installed in my 1200XL and was reading through the thread about the v-gate functionality. Should I have an option to enabe/disable v-gate in the U1MB on this platform, or is that only in the 1088XEL? I though I had read somewhere a discussion that U1MB could now detect the Sophia, but I can't track that thread down now. Thanks!

[flashjazzcat]

Unfortunately no software can detect Sofia because it lacks the simple expedient of some identifiable signature byte (e.g. in some unused GTIA address space). I was persuaded to "blindly" control V-Gate in the 1088XEL's U1MB BIOS plugin, and can provide similar functionality in a plugin for the mainline U1MB BIOS. It would be far better to actually know whether the hardware is present before providing settings to control it, of course, and Sofia is almost unique among non-passive upgrades in as much as it cannot be detected and not all facilities (such as VGate) are even guaranteed to be supported depending on the hardware/firmware revision (in addition to signature information, a version number would be nice).